800X HERCO or 4227 for mid-range ~900 fps 357 magnum loads?

[sniper]

These three old-timey powders were once featured pretty widely in reloading manuals, but are very seldom seen any more. Is it that they don't meter as well as some of the newer whiz-bang powders? Any recommendations for sources of loading data?
Thanx :smile:

[justashooter]

herco is good for this. 4227 too slow.

[rintinglen]

800X meters like a box of rocks Herco is only a little better and 4227 is best for top-end magnum loads: there are much better choices for mid-level magnum loads. Power Pistol, Unique, Autocomp, Universal, N-350, WW 231 there are a pile of choices out there for”38+p” 357 loads. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[megasupermagnum]

800x and Herco are pretty close as far as burn rate. Both should work well for your intended use. I believe the Lee manual has 800x data, although I'm away from home now. I'm seeing 8.9 gr max with 158 grain SWC listed in an online IMR manual for 1215 fps. The same bullet in 38 special lists 5.9 gr 800x for 880 fps. I would think 6.5 grains would get you close. 800x is a great mid range powder.


http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Vendor%20Supplied%20Load%20Data/IMR%20Smokeless%20Powder%20Reloading%20Guide%20---%20April%202004.pdf

[Todd N.]

I use 800X and Herco for several cartridges. I don't think I've ever used 4227. Both of these work great in .357 mag. My preference though is for 2400 for that round. Some of my most accurate loads have been with 2400 and 120-160 grain cast bullets.

[Greg S]

800X is like trying to get consistant handfulls of Lays potatoe chips. I use Unique, Bluedot or 2400 for midrange (1050-1200) loads and H110/296 or 300MP for full house.

[2shot]

I've had great success with Herco and the Lyman 358429 in the .357. With near max loads it will push that boolit to 1200 fps in my 4" M-66 with the best accuracy I have gotten in any of my many .357 handguns. Never used the other 2 powders but have tried 2400, Unique, SR 4756 among others but always come back to Herco. meters pretty well out of my old Lyman 55 powder measure but not so with my 2 other Redding powder measures.
Just a heads up. Older reloading manuals list ridiculous amounts of Herco for max loads, I use newer manuals for my 357429 load and they have been spot on with no pressure problems.

2shot

[Larry Gibson]

In years past I shot quite a bit of Herco in the 357 magnum under a 358477 for a pleasant and accurate mid range load. I used 7.5 gr of Herco with a CCI500 or WSP primer. That load runs about 1150 fps +/- out of 5 - 6 1/2" revolvers (S&W & Rugers).

Earlier this year I picked up a lb of Alliant Herco and pressure tested that load. Out of the 8" Contender test barrel it gave 26,900 psi 1295 fps. On average the Contender barrel runs about 100 - 125 fps faster than my 6" barreled Ruger Security Six so the new Alliant seems very comparable to the older Hercules Herco.

BTW. I've found Herco meters just fine (+/- .1 gr) in my Dillon 550B and SDB powder throwers.

[roverboy]

I've shot a lot of Herco in .38 and .357 and its good for mid range loads. I've loaded a lot of 6.0-8.0 gr. loads with 158 gr. cast in .357 and they have shot good.

[Rodfac]

Herco...by far....4227 is too slow and 800x metering inaccuracies make Unique positively smooth. I've had good success with Herco of current manufacture in a number of calibers; from .357, .41 and .44 Magnum & Special to .45 Colt. It's one of my favorite powders for 900 to 1100 fps loads in these calibers.

My results mirror Larry Gibson's. And a personal favorite is any good 158 gr LSWC with 6.9 gr of Herco in Magnum brass [~1000 fps 4" bbl.]. It's a tack driver in a cpl of Smith M66's, two M19's, and a pair of Ruger BH's. I size for them all at 0.359" and have no leading problems...(ww alloy with 2% tin). Lyman's excellent 358156 Gc is outstanding in the above handguns as well as my Marlin 1894 Cs. For the carbine I size to 0.360" and GC. For the handguns, the 6.9 gr load does not need the GC and shoots equally well.

As always, consult a good manual, and consider the pressure implications then work up to these loads if interested. Old copies of Alliant manuals are available on line with a google search for appropriate data.

YMMv Rod

[Outpost75]

I use these loads in my S&W .38-44 Heavy Duty

Factory .38 Special +P and .38 Special +P (.38-44) Handloads

Ammunition____________________S&W .38-44 HD 4”

Factory Loads for Reference:

Old Super-X 158-grain LRN .38-44______994 fps, 23 Sd
Winchester X38SPD 158-gr. LHP+P_____909 fps, 16 Sd

“.38-44” Handloads in .38 Special brass, W-W cases, WSP primer:

Saeco #348 146DEWC 8.9 grs.#2400+P__922 fps,12 Sd
Acc. 36-175H 4.0 grs. Bullseye+P________871 fps, 5 Sd
Acc. 36-175H 5.5 grs. AutoComp+P______902 fps, 14 Sd
Acc. 36-175H 11.5 IMR4227+P__________914 fps, 22 Sd
Acc. 36-190T 8.4 #2400+P_____________888 fps, 21 Sd