Winchester Hi Wall headed my way in 38/55!

[koger]

I have a Win Hi Wall in 38/55 on the way, it is very similar to a Browning, which was made at the same time, 28" Tapered octagon with regular sights, scope mounts and rings, and a Marble's Peep mounted on the tang.
The owner had slugged the barrel and sent me pics, it will need a .377 bullet, which I already have the mold and molded up about 250 slugs that are .379. Should I size them or try a few first. When I get it in and get some pics we will post them. I have really come to love the.38/55 in the short time I have had one, a JES Marlin 336 that was bored, chambered, and rifled by him. I may have to use it hunting deer next year.

[1Hawkeye]

I would make up a dummy round with one .379" to see if it will chamber properly and if it does load them at cast diameter. If it won't chamber then size them to .377"

[pworley1]

I shoot .379 in my 38 55 that slugged at .377. They seem to work just fine.

[475BH]

Is it the .38-55 chamber length or the shorter .375win length?

[T-Bird]

I'm jealous! Been wanting one for a long time!

[koger]

473BH, it has the long chamber.

[Slugster]

Green with envy. The 38-55 is a great oldie but goodie. Have fun, and be safe.

[oldred]

473BH, it has the long chamber.

I don't know what's the big deal about those short chambers but it seems that most everything is geared toward them, reamers, dies, etc. When building my 38-55 I insisted on (and still do!) having the CORRECT long chamber but it seems that most of the manufacturers of anything 38-55 related are determined to make that short chamber the standard for this round. I searched for a reamer and everyone had only the short chamber version as stock with the longer chamber being a special order proposition so I just made my own (a simple "D" reamer but it worked ok). With the shorter case and smaller diameter bore of today's modern 38-55s they are not the same cartridge anymore, with a shorter case and smaller bore it simply isn't the same cartridge as what started out as the 38-55 round but after a lot of recent researching on this excellent round I think maybe the smaller .375 bore is a good thing and a big improvement over the original larger bore but not that shorter case!

[ulav8r]

I don't know what's the big deal about those short chambers but it seems that most everything is geared toward them, reamers, dies, etc. When building my 38-55 I insisted on (and still do!) having the CORRECT long chamber but it seems that most of the manufacturers of anything 38-55 related are determined to make that short chamber the standard for this round. I searched for a reamer and everyone had only the short chamber version as stock with the longer chamber being a special order proposition so I just made my own (a simple "D" reamer but it worked ok). With the shorter case and smaller diameter bore of today's modern 38-55s they are not the same cartridge anymore, with a shorter case and smaller bore it simply isn't the same cartridge as what started out as the 38-55 round but after a lot of recent researching on this excellent round I think maybe the smaller .375 bore is a good thing and a big improvement over the original larger bore but not that shorter case!

Agree, they should call the short chambered gun 37-52.

[oldred]

Agree, they should call the short chambered gun 37-52.

Now ya dun'it, got clean the coffee off my computer! :lol:

Thanks for the morning chuckle!

[ulav8r]

You are welcome.

[Lance Boyle]

Nice. Yes the modern incarnation of the .38-55 is really a low pressure .375 Winchester. It really mucks up the process and discussion.

I picked up a Uberti high wall in .38-55, theirs is the 1800s style cut with deep grooves and the longer proper chamber.

The deep grooves, and mine are on the deeper end of deep, are problematic. Hunter specialties .381 255 grain did not do the job. My grooves were just over 0.382”. That is the way the original .38-55s were made in the bp era.

I had to do some work arounds to work the old style as you noted everything is geared around the “.375 Winchester light” guns.

- custom fat mold from Tom
- custom fat expander I tuned and threaded on my own lathe
- custom bullet sizer die, I did polish it a bit

I am about as fat in the neck as I can be and chamber using the long star line, have to use the thinnest wall brass you can for the fat bullet to match the groove.

All in all a tight fit but certainly not possible off the shelf.

[oldred]

Nice. Yes the modern incarnation of the .38-55 is really a low pressure .375 Winchester. It really mucks up the process and discussion.

I picked up a Uberti high wall in .38-55, theirs is the 1800s style cut with deep grooves and the longer proper chamber.

The deep grooves, and mine are on the deeper end of deep, are problematic. Hunter specialties .381 255 grain did not do the job. My grooves were just over 0.382”. That is the way the original .38-55s were made in the bp era.

I had to do some work arounds to work the old style as you noted everything is geared around the “.375 Winchester light” guns.

- custom fat mold from Tom
- custom fat expander I tuned and threaded on my own lathe
- custom bullet sizer die, I did polish it a bit

I am about as fat in the neck as I can be and chamber using the long star line, have to use the thinnest wall brass you can for the fat bullet to match the groove.

All in all a tight fit but certainly not possible off the shelf.

When I first started my 38-55 project I got a bit frustrated with all the .375 stuff and the fact that .375 barrel blanks were all I could find, odd that the larger bore barrel liners were easy to find but no barrel blanks? I wanted a REAL 38-55 and not a made-over .375 Winchester but it seems I was stuck with the .375 bore so I just grumbled and accepted it, however after a bit of research I found that the .375 bore probably is the better choice just for the very reasons you mention, on the Starline web site it explains the problems that plague the 38-55 with the more correct larger bore were from the original design specifications. These rifles with original bores and chambers obviously can be made to shoot extremely well as evidenced by their legendary accuracy but it seems they only do it with a very soft bullet, we can forget shooting jacketed in them with any reasonable expectations of accuracy. Not sure what the thinking behind the design is but according to Starline it's just about impossible to chamber a bullet in a standard chamber that will be large enough to properly fit that larger bore and they relied on bullet obturation for a good seal and tight bore fit, thus the reason they are pretty well known to shoot lead bullets and BP the best. If I had the "proper" bore for the 38-55 I personally wouldn't complain and would be happy knowing I had the real thing but I also would have to accept being "stuck" with only soft lead bullets and BP but since that's what I intend to use anyway it would be no problem!

[WBH]

Starline does make the 2.125" correct brass. A 1:20 bullet over BP with a .030" veggie wad and you and your shoulder will love that rifle.
My Winchester Highwall in 38-55 loves a variety of cast bullets. Its a heavy one to carry afield though! Enjoy yours. Its a great caliber.

[oldred]

Starline does make the 2.125" correct brass

Not only does Starline make that brass but Midway has it on sale right now, or least it was still on sale a couple of days ago.

[David LaPell]

I always loved the .38-55, and one in a Winchester 1885 is just like gravy on the biscuits.

[oscarflytyer]

I have really come to love the.38/55 in the short time I have had one, a JES Marlin 336 that was bored, chambered, and rifled by him. I may have to use it hunting deer next year.

Have a 336 (Texan) donor in my safe, just begging to grow up and become a 38-55, courtesy of JES! Would appreciate you sharing the rebore dimension you got, dies/mold(s)/load data you are using. I need to get off the fence and get this one done! AND take it deer hunting!

[koger]

I have a JES Rebore, a 336 Marlin that started out as a 30/30. JES rebores his with what I call Pope style rifling, narrow lands, and wide grooves. He cuts his chambers to use the short 38/55 brass from Starline, and you will need a .375-.377 diameter bullet. I am using a lee double cavity that casts a .377 265gr with my alloy, and with 22grs of IMR-4198, is literally a tack driver. It has a Williams peep sight on it, and shoots amazing groups out to 150 yds, that is the longest range I have here at my house. The Hi wall shoots the same length brass. And aside from negative remarks above, I see no issue with the shorter brass. I can load the maximum loads in it, gets good accuracy in both the lever and single shot. The Marlin needs the short brass to work flawlessly, per JES, and I know he knows what he is doing.

[marlinman93]

Green Mountain sells .379" barrel blanks, and always has. I've purcahsed from them numerous times, and always been pleased with the accuracy of their barrels.

[koger]

Marlin man, I agree with you 100% on the Green Mtn barrels. I have about 12 of them on custom ML's, and I have shot my way to medals, in the NMLRA events 31 times. There may be better barrels out there, but I have yet to see one that would shoot better than theirs, especially in ML's and Single shot rifles.

[oldred]

Green Mountain sells .379" barrel blanks, and always has. I've purcahsed from them numerous times, and always been pleased with the accuracy of their barrels.

Are you sure about that? I couldn't find anything except .375 before and a quick search there just now brings up zero results for .379? In fact the .375 barrel I have now that came from GM was chosen because I couldn't find the more traditional bore size there.

[marlinman93]

Their Classic Tapered octagon BPCR barrels were .379" the last time I bought one. That was 7 or 8 years ago. I just looked again to see what groove they are, but they don't specify now. Just shows the 1:12 twist, barrel weight, and dimensions externally. Guess I'll have to give them a call and ask.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/w381236-3-5x-35-38-55-cal-3-5-profile-honed-tapered-octagon-bpcr/

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/classic-tapered-octagon-rifle-barrels-4140-steel/

[oldred]

Their Classic Tapered octagon BPCR barrels were .379" the last time I bought one. That was 7 or 8 years ago. I just looked again to see what groove they are, but they don't specify now. Just shows the 1:12 twist, barrel weight, and dimensions externally. Guess I'll have to give them a call and ask.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/w381236-3-5x-35-38-55-cal-3-5-profile-honed-tapered-octagon-bpcr/

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/classic-tapered-octagon-rifle-barrels-4140-steel/


First off let me apologize for the poor way I worded my question, of course you know what you bought and I didn't mean for it to sound as if you might not know, what I meant was do they still offer them now. Also I never looked at any of the pre-finished barrels because I was in the market only for raw blanks and I "assumed" the already profiled, octagon, etc barrels would be the same bore as the raw blanks.

[marlinman93]

No offense taken oldred. I usually buy profiled barrels from GM as I don't have a mill that I can profile them with. Not sure either how their unfinished blanks compare to profiled blanks, or what they sell today.

[skeettx]

So, this is what I would do, get the gun. Load one cartridge with the .379 bullet, see if it will chamber in the rifle.
If so, and you loaded a mild to medium load, shoot it and measure the inside diameter of the case or see if the
bullet will fit inside this fired, unsized case.
Please report back
Mike

[BCRider]

Is it the .38-55 chamber length or the shorter .375win length?

Another 38-55 guy here.

Be careful when calling out the chamber and casing lengths. Starline carries two lengths for 38-55. I believe the longer is for the older Ballard single shot 38-55 and the shorter is the later Winchester lever 38-55 which got adopted by a lot of the single shot rifles around that time as well. And then the .375Win is shorter than either of those. And thicker walled at the mouth to boot.

Bullet diameters are lots of fun with the various 38-55's too. I've got two now. A Swedish action which got given a Shiloh Sharps barrel transplant and a new Uberti Winchester 1885. The Sharps barrel was mistakenly chambered by someone with the fatter "lever" size reamer that needs .380 size bullets. But the barrel is really happy with .376 to .377. Then the Uberti that slugged at groove diameter of .379 isn't really happy with that size but plays really well with .382 to .383". It's been a roller coaster ride for me and my 38-55 shooting but I do love the cartridge for the moderate kick compared to a 45-70.

[50target]

Another 38-55 guy here.

Bullet diameters are lots of fun with the various 38-55's too. I've got two now. A Swedish action which got given a Shiloh Sharps barrel transplant and a new Uberti Winchester 1885. The Sharps barrel was mistakenly chambered by someone with the fatter "lever" size reamer that needs .380 size bullets. But the barrel is really happy with .376 to .377. Then the Uberti that slugged at groove diameter of .379 isn't really happy with that size but plays really well with .382 to .383". It's been a roller coaster ride for me and my 38-55 shooting but I do love the cartridge for the moderate kick compared to a 45-70.

Ain't that the truth with the 38-55. I have one of the Uberti HW and it drove me crazy. Can't assume anything. Put .379 in her and you'd do better loading them in a slingshot. Put .380-.381 in it and life is good. Have a pristine Stevens 44 and she is OK with down to.378. Go figure.
Enjoy & good luck.
Bob

[koger]

The rifle shoots anything between .375-379 great. I settled on sized and lubed 265gr cast from a double cavity lee, 377 as she comes out of the mold, just run thru a sizer to lube, for now, may start pan lubing soon. I am shooting 24.0 grains of IMR4198, and she keeps 5 shots in 2" at 140yds off sandbags. I am one happy camper.