Broken nipples on original 1858 remington.

[Kev18]

Well... I came back home after a quick outing and saw a sheared nipple on my remington. They were stuck so I left them to soak in penetrating oil. I ordered a special high grade nipple wrench to try and torque them out. It didn't get here yet.

Turns out my dad thought it would be a good idea to try and twist or pry it out... Sheared the head clean off. I told him 100 times to wait and let me do it. But he's like a child and thinks he know's best.

So no I have a stuck sheared nipple in the cylinder... Anyway of getting it out and any replacements that would fit? No uberti or pietta. They dont work.

[Kev18]

Anyone know where I can get a full cylinder by chance? I saw a repro for an original but its for .44 cal. Mine is a navy .36.

[edp2k]

Soak it a couple days in 5/50 acetone and ATF.
The get an easy out of the correct size and try it.
Go gently, you don't want to break off the easy out (as bad as a broken tap).

If it still doesn't want to come out, maybe put it in the oven @ ~200 F for a hour, then dunk in the ATF/acetone mixture.
Another thought is to soak it in Evaporust for a day or so, then back into the 50/50 for a day then try again.

[Kev18]

I have evaporust. Il try it!

[Remiel]

I used a pencil torch and liquid wrench to pull several broken action screws form Spanish mauser(actions were wrapped to prevent issues with heat treat and very low flame), barreled actions wouldn't fit in the oven. With a set of extractors and left hand drill bits all came out with no damage. I'd say bake it and soak it, may take more than once so pick up a cheap toaster oven. Use the left handed bit first before the easy out.

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[Thundarstick]

Anyone know where I can get a full cylinder by chance? I saw a repro for an original but its for .44 cal. Mine is a navy .36.

Contact Dixie Gun Works

[Czech_too]

I would caution against the using the Evaporust as it will remove blueing if left in contact with the metal for a length of time. I'm talking hours here.
Dixie Gun Works is showing replacement cylinders available.

[KCSO]

Caution a lot of the old nipples were case hardened, they will be brittle and you will need carbide tooling if you want to drill them out. Expect to break a wrench before you are done. I make my own wrenches from small 1/4 drive sockets and use a socket wrench to apply torque.

[bob208]

find a machine shop that has a edm machine. that is the easy way to get it out.

[country gent]

Another help in loosening stuck screws is to make a clay dam around area and penetrating oil in it then on aolid surface use a punch if needed to get into it flat and with a small ball peen lightly tap on it for a few minutes the vibration will work oils in and loosen threads both. Im not a big fan of easy outs on this parts they tend to expand the part out tighter into the threads.
The edm works well and you don't need to burn the whole nipple out just a hex thru the center for a Allen wrench. The left hand drills will do a good job if you have a reversible drill, they work even better when slightly dull. Using the drills be prepared when the thread backs out it will be all at once and fast. We did the edm on broken bolts at work burning a hex into them the full length of the allen wrenches short leg to the start of the bend. Between the high frequency die electric fluids and electric arcs the screws were easily removed. The drawback is Going to a shop with an edm and them doing it may be expensive as your tying up a man and machine. The plus is the edm dosnt care how hard the part is, how round or true the hole is or how deep it is.

[Markopolo]

i would say, i resemble your father... go easy on him... lol

[curator]

Kroil, heat, cool, and re-heat, and an easy-out will eventually win out. I had broken two easy outs before I got all of the nipples from my original 1858 Remington Army revolver. New nipples are worth all the hassle--go for it!

[skeettx]

Watching

[Kev18]

I would caution against the using the Evaporust as it will remove blueing if left in contact with the metal for a length of time. I'm talking hours here.
Dixie Gun Works is showing replacement cylinders available.

I only saw one for .44cal. I emailed them hopefully they have one.

[Kev18]

Kroil, heat, cool, and re-heat, and an easy-out will eventually win out. I had broken two easy outs before I got all of the nipples from my original 1858 Remington Army revolver. New nipples are worth all the hassle--go for it!

IM trying, I still didnt get my tool to remove the nipples but I hope I get it soon.

[Conditor22]

This is a good reminder to all of us ---NEVER FORGET TO PUT ANTISEZE ON YOUR NIPPLES!!!!!

[Kev18]

Dixie doesnt have any repro's that fit.

[country gent]

Kev18 plug off the nipple holes on the cylinder with round tooth picks nice and tight stand upright and fill cylinders / chambers with kroil and let soak in a pan to catch any seepage. This will allow overnight soaks and working in between. Soak for awhile drain and tap on the nipples lightly for a few minutes then refill soak and repeat for a couple days. Then try your wrench. Of you must drill them then if you have a long enough drill come thru with a right hand from chamber end ad it may push the nipple out unthreading it.

[gwpercle]

Soak it a couple days in 5/50 acetone and ATF.
The get an easy out of the correct size and try it.
Go gently, you don't want to break off the easy out (as bad as a broken tap).

If it still doesn't want to come out, maybe put it in the oven @ ~200 F for a hour, then dunk in the ATF/acetone mixture.
Another thought is to soak it in Evaporust for a day or so, then back into the 50/50 for a day then try again.

Typo... The acetone / ATF should be 50 / 50 not 5 /50

[gumbo333]

A left hand drill bit set is a very handy thing to have. Especially for guys that work with firearms. Too bad so many hardware stores have never heard of them.

[Remiel]

A left hand drill bit set is a very handy thing to have. Especially for guys that work with firearms. Too bad so many hardware stores have never heard of them.I got mine at AutoZone, it's was only a 4 piece set, also hit the easy outs there too. Just hide them from the wife cause mine used my lefty bits to hang pictures.

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[Battis]

As I said before, I use a Pietta cylinder when I shoot my original Remington New Model .44. I know, it' a .44, not a .36. Maybe someone could measure a Pietta .36 cylinder for you.
Also, I bought 3 spare cylinders for my Savage and North .36 on ebay. What are the odds... It took some time but eventually they showed up.
Another thing to keep in mind - an original cap and ball revolver is not an everyday shooter. I have several that I shoot once a year. Some have broken nipples - I just load the chambers with the intact nipples. Maybe you could find a repro to shoot and enjoy the original for what it is, for its history. I know, many gun owners won't own a gun they can't shoot. That's cool, but if you're into antiques, it happens.
Example - this gun is a Warner .28. I'll probably never shoot it but it's cool to have.

[Kev18]

As I said before, I use a Pietta cylinder when I shoot my original Remington New Model .44. I know, it' a .44, not a .36. Maybe someone could measure a Pietta .36 cylinder for you.
Also, I bought 3 spare cylinders for my Savage and North .36 on ebay. What are the odds... It took some time but eventually they showed up.
Another thing to keep in mind - an original cap and ball revolver is not an everyday shooter. I have several that I shoot once a year. Some have broken nipples - I just load the chambers with the intact nipples. Maybe you could find a repro to shoot and enjoy the original for what it is, for its history. I know, many gun owners won't own a gun they can't shoot. That's cool, but if you're into antiques, it happens.
Example - this gun is a Warner .28. I'll probably never shoot it but it's cool to have.

Please tell me how a pietta fit in yours? I have a cylinder for .36 cal. The cylinder is massive and the chambers are tiny. the previous owner I bought it from gave it to me because the thought it would fit. He even had to turn the face of the cylinder down because it was to long.
Look at the size difference in the cylinders and the chambers:
https://i.imgur.com/ZZ34YU3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9AovAo5.jpg

[Battis]

I saw that. Big difference. Mine is a .44 and the repro cylinder fits. It actually came with two spare repro cylinders and I sold one. Keep checking ebay. I have several antiques that I just never bothered taking out the nipples, but I shoot them as is and they work. I've ruined a nipple or two trying to remove them. Heat works but I was always concerned about heating 100+ year old metal. And I still don't shoot the originals often, even the ones that are in great condition. They're old, very old.

Are you sure that the repro cylinder is a .36?

[Kev18]

I saw that. Big difference. Mine is a .44 and the repro cylinder fits. It actually came with two spare repro cylinders and I sold one. Keep checking ebay. I have several antiques that I just never bothered taking out the nipples, but I shoot them as is and they work. I've ruined a nipple or two trying to remove them. Heat works but I was always concerned about heating 100+ year old metal. And I still don't shoot the originals often, even the ones that are in great condition. They're old, very old.

Are you sure that the repro cylinder is a .36?

Yes, its a 36. I have the box. I thought it could have been a .44 but the chambers are so small.

[blackbahart]

might not work with that cylinder ,you need to measure your original from chamber centre to pin centre and compare to the repo cylinder .Looks like the repo cylinder has a larger distance ,just going off pic

[Kev18]

Do you think if I shave abit of metal off it will affect anything?

[Battis]

Off the cylinder? I think it would take a lot of shaving. If it were me, and I've been there, I'd put the original cylinder back in the gun and wait to find one that fits. I have a Remington Beals .36, which is basically the father of your gun - I'll measure the cylinder for dimensions if you want.

[blackbahart]

Have you measured the cylinder bore on the Pietta cylinder against the original cylinder?

I encountered this when I had purchased a 1851 colt navy that a previous home smith replaced the cylinder with a repo and did not get the original cylinder and the also filed back the rear on the barrel assembly where the line up pins met under the cylinder and stuck a shim into the wedge slot

.Upon inspection something did not look right as a .375 ball would roll into the barrel and the cylinder mouth measured .355 and was basically told you should have asked more questions and pictures and is good for its age and enjoy your purchase as all sales final in my ad.

Ended up buying brand new a repo 1851 Pietta navy and grafted the whole front end on to the antique frame to maintain the Canadian antique status ,and by the way that navy shots awesome now.
I did leave the Italian proof marks and stamping on it so that the owners down the line did not represent it as pristine .As the only saving grace was that he didn't file or grind on the frame

Learned a lesson on that colt to get more pics and walk away when the sellers answer "looks good for its age" LOL

[Kev18]

Have you measured the cylinder bore on the Pietta cylinder against the original cylinder?

I encountered this when I had purchased a 1851 colt navy that a previous home smith replaced the cylinder with a repo and did not get the original cylinder and the also filed back the rear on the barrel assembly where the line up pins met under the cylinder and stuck a shim into the wedge slot

.Upon inspection something did not look right as a .375 ball would roll into the barrel and the cylinder mouth measured .355 and was basically told you should have asked more questions and pictures and is good for its age and enjoy your purchase as all sales final in my ad.

Ended up buying brand new a repo 1851 Pietta navy and grafted the whole front end on to the antique frame to maintain the Canadian antique status ,and by the way that navy shots awesome now.
I did leave the Italian proof marks and stamping on it so that the owners down the line did not represent it as pristine .As the only saving grace was that he didn't file or grind on the frame

Learned a lesson on that colt to get more pics and walk away when the sellers answer "looks good for its age" LOL

Do you still go to a range to shoot? Do you need a restricted permit to shoot even if its an antique?

[Kev18]

BEHOLD!:
https://i.imgur.com/I1JIN0L.jpg
I got tired of waiting. Buffed down the cylinder to make it fit. Surprisingly enough I didnt take that much off... I still need to cut the little notches in around it and open up the nipple notches but hey! It fits.
Anyone know what dimension I could drill the chambers out to? For a .36 cal? What drill bit do I need? I dont have many tools, Its a miracle what you can do with a drill and bench grinder and sander.
https://i.imgur.com/yevZwh8.jpg

[blackbahart]

I live on a 1/4 out of town and because it is antique I can use it anywhere I can discharge a non restricted ,I have actually sold off all my restricted BP revolvers and replaced them with 2 1873 colts one in 38 special and 45 Schofield and 2 SW in 44 Russian and 38-44 for the reason of not having to go to the range

back to your cylinder ,should slug your barrel and take a measurement and use that measurement to determine the chamber size .The bore diameter will determine the chamber size and not knowing the measurements it will be guessing

now guessing would be around .375 (3/8 ish) ,,but still don't know the bore on the barrel.Not sure what tools or machines you have at you desposal ,,But I would set up the cylinder on a mill and use an end mill to make a clean smooth cut chamber and avoid rounding the mouths .

have you tested the cylinder to see if indexes and locks where it is supposed to ?

[Kev18]

I live on a 1/4 out of town and because it is antique I can use it anywhere I can discharge a non restricted ,I have actually sold off all my restricted BP revolvers and replaced them with 2 1873 colts one in 38 special and 45 Schofield and 2 SW in 44 Russian and 38-44 for the reason of not having to go to the range

back to your cylinder ,should slug your barrel and take a measurement and use that measurement to determine the chamber size .The bore diameter will determine the chamber size and not knowing the measurements it will be guessing

now guessing would be around .375 (3/8 ish) ,,but still don't know the bore on the barrel.Not sure what tools or machines you have at you desposal ,,But I would set up the cylinder on a mill and use an end mill to make a clean smooth cut chamber and avoid rounding the mouths .

have you tested the cylinder to see if indexes and locks where it is supposed to ?

I have trouble with indexing. It gets to about half the nipple, so its not perfect. And I need to make the locking notches alittle longer so that the bolt locks in. They aren't aligned properly. Any tips for indexing?

[blackbahart]

does the cylinder rotate freely with the hand and lock removed? how much cylinder gap do you have ?is the cuts that the lock goes into deep enough to engage the lock
looking at the back of both cylinders the star appears to line up the same from the pics so what is causing the rotation to stop is something minor
providing the cylinder rotates freely with the hand and lock removed ,first reinstall the hand and try moving the hammer back and it should rotate the cylinder to align with the barrel easily .

you mentioned the lock does not align ,and need to make the notches longer ,is the width correct for the bolt lock

also if under indexing the hand needs to be longer

[Kev18]

does the cylinder rotate freely with the hand and lock removed? how much cylinder gap do you have ?is the cuts that the lock goes into deep enough to engage the lock
looking at the back of both cylinders the star appears to line up the same from the pics so what is causing the rotation to stop is something minor
providing the cylinder rotates freely with the hand and lock removed ,first reinstall the hand and try moving the hammer back and it should rotate the cylinder to align with the barrel easily .

you mentioned the lock does not align ,and need to make the notches longer ,is the width correct for the bolt lock

also if under indexing the hand needs to be longer

Il buy a pack of repro parts. The bolt broke again when I was messing around with it. The notches need to be longer but the width is perfect.

[truckjohn]

On the original unit....

Carry it over to a machine shop and pay them to remove the broke nipple and clean the threads. It helps A LOT if you know what size the threads are. This is bread and butter work for a machinist and they will NOT mess it up!

On the new one.... Slug your barrel at the throat. Ream each cylinder exactly to that size. This is another item I would have a Machine Shop do for you - as you do NOT want it messed up or the holes to get off-center. You especially don't want the holes to vary 0.005" Diameter from chamber to chamber or to be significantly undersized. It will lead like crazy.

[Kev18]

On the original unit....

Carry it over to a machine shop and pay them to remove the broke nipple and clean the threads. It helps A LOT if you know what size the threads are. This is bread and butter work for a machinist and they will NOT mess it up!

On the new one.... Slug your barrel at the throat. Ream each cylinder exactly to that size. This is another item I would have a Machine Shop do for you - as you do NOT want it messed up or the holes to get off-center. You especially don't want the holes to vary 0.005" Diameter from chamber to chamber or to be significantly undersized. It will lead like crazy.

A machine shop already has my original cylinder. And il try to do the repro myself but no promises.

[oldracer]

We have a place near San Diego called Marshall's Hardware and they carry everything. They have left handed drill bits and they are made in Austria and are expensive so several years ago I bought two the size that goes into a nipple hole. You'd need a drill press, no hand drill at all and very slow speed with cutting oil (not any other type of oil). I also bought drill bits and taps for the following: 12x28 (ASM revolvers), 6mmx.75 newer revolvers and 1/4x28 many modern rifles although many do use 6mm size. The are also oversize nipples of most of these listed on Track of the Wolf. Set cylinder in drill press vise with leather protection and nipples standing straight up. Use hi quality nipple wrench and close the chuck jaws all the way then press the chuck down tightly on the nipple wrench so it can not pop up! Move it slightly, very slightly then back and forth keeping pressure on the nipple wrench. They'll come out.

Note if the nipple sheared even with the threads, the broken part can go through since the chamber inside is open and can be forced through with a high quality drill, those at Harbor Freight will snap right off usually.
John

[Kev18]

We have a place near San Diego called Marshall's Hardware and they carry everything. They have left handed drill bits and they are made in Austria and are expensive so several years ago I bought two the size that goes into a nipple hole. You'd need a drill press, no hand drill at all and very slow speed with cutting oil (not any other type of oil). I also bought drill bits and taps for the following: 12x28 (ASM revolvers), 6mmx.75 newer revolvers and 1/4x28 many modern rifles although many do use 6mm size. The are also oversize nipples of most of these listed on Track of the Wolf. Set cylinder in drill press vise with leather protection and nipples standing straight up. Use hi quality nipple wrench and close the chuck jaws all the way then press the chuck down tightly on the nipple wrench so it can not pop up! Move it slightly, very slightly then back and forth keeping pressure on the nipple wrench. They'll come out.

Note if the nipple sheared even with the threads, the broken part can go through since the chamber inside is open and can be forced through with a high quality drill, those at Harbor Freight will snap right off usually.
John

A machine shop has my cylinder. Hopefully they will do something good...

[Rockindaddy]

Broken nipples come right out !! I TIG weld a drop of nickel rod right on the broken nipple. Then use a piece of 1/4" stainless rod with a 90 degree bend. While the weld is still warm you can wind the broken threaded stub right out. Hold your cylinder in a vise with a 1/4' piece of leather.

[Kev18]

Broken nipples come right out !! I TIG weld a drop of nickel rod right on the broken nipple. Then use a piece of 1/4" stainless rod with a 90 degree bend. While the weld is still warm you can wind the broken threaded stub right out. Hold your cylinder in a vise with a 1/4' piece of leather.

Il try whatever I can when I get it back. If the machine shop can't do anything.

[mazo kid]

New-made nipples for original Remington Navy.
http://www.lodgewood.com/Remington-1858-New-Model-Navy_c_62.html