Shooting 7.62x39 Russian Subs

[WBH]

I loaded some 7.62x39 subsonic rounds the other day (haven't in years) and forgot how much fun thay are to shoot. On par with the 300AAC for accuracy and performance.
Either 180 or 230 boolits at just over 1000fps showed superb 100 yard grouping with miserly loads of Red Dot. Nice to get over 1000 rounds from a pound of powder.:smile:

Anyone else shooting the "Russian Blackout"?

[Texas by God]

What gun and what sizing diameter did you use?

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[WBH]

I've shot them in AR uppers and SKS's. Needless to say the AR platform with a scope was more accurate. I had to play with the buffer weight and spring to get the AR to cycle.

.311" in the SKS and .309" in the AR. Though the AR barrels are probably cut for the .311".

Little to no leading. Jacketed shoot well also.

[Mica_Hiebert]

I will be soon. Gunna load some 150s over trail boss. I have a bolt rifle so dont have to worry about the cycling. I have an ar15 but it was enough work getting it to run on supersonic ammo so not going to attempt subs in it.

[WBH]

Red Dot is #7 vs Trail Boss is #21 on the burn rate charts.
For the case size I am using 6.1-7.5gr of RD based on my bullet weight and length I have about 60-85% load density with the bullet seated. My flash holes are drilled out to 9/64" and I use Rem 2 1/2 large pistol primers. I also load the jacketed bullets backwards. Federal LP brass only.

I have used Trail Boss on occasion in much larger capacity cases (45-70) etc. But 5744 works better in those cases for me.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Ive read about using h110 but its kind of a Scary powder to play with.

[jaysouth]

I have a Ruger American Rifle, "ranch rifle" edition. 7.62x39 with a 16" barrel, 1:10" twist.

A Lee C312-185 with the gas check shank cut out drops at 187 gr. plain base. Powder coated or tumbled with BLL 2x, it shoots better than I can hold it with 5-7 grs Red Dot or 231. Optimum sizing is .313. Difference between bullets sized .312 and .313 is dramatic. .313 = groups. .312 = 'patterns'.

[Texas by God]

My ARx39 works with cast and jacketed just fine so far. I've not tried any subsonic in it but it should function with a heavy bullet at low velocity. I don't think H110 is a good choice here.
WBH- say what about the backwards jackets?

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[pacomdiver]

hes talking about seating the boat tail bullets backwards, they are supposed to fly better (more stable) subsonic, kinda like a raindrop falling. i tried some with my BO, but honestly i didnt notice a difference in group sizes.

i use H110 for supers (147g M80) and subs (208 amax) in my BO

[Texas by God]

Ok, thanks. I did that with 8x57 mm FMJ and they only were accurate at close range. There is a sticky about the 7.62x39mm with cast there may be sub loads there. Using the BO load in the larger x39 case may amount to a “reduced load” of H110- bad,bad.

[WBH]

Backwards loading of 147gr and 174gr milsup FMJ's has given me 1.25" groups at 100 yards with 6.1gr of Red Dot and no yawing. Perfect holes like a wadcutter. I have even drilled the bottoms to make some deep hollow points. I drill the primer holes to 9/64"(IMPERATIVE... AND NEVER USE THAT BRASS FOR SUPERSONIC) and I use only Federal Brass with Rem 2 1/2" Primers. Case fill is over 50% on all rounds. Case fill and powder type is critical to prevent SEE. The backwards loadings have feed issues in a semi-auto (AR plarform) though great for a bolt or single shot rifle.

[iomskp]

I had great success with my 7.62x39 sub sonic and high velocity, then I heard about the remington in 300 blackout, so I rushed out and bought a new Remington in 300 blackout thinking that it would be a step forward, well that was an absolute bit junk, I sold it for what I could get, now I am back with the old Norinco with the Ruger stainless barrel, I should have stayed with it in the first place a great little gun in a great caliber

[popper]

Not x39 or sub but using cfe pistol in BO pistol, 145 & 170 gr slow. Cycles fine with h2 buffer. Slow low pressure powder.

[Chill Wills]

Shooting 7.62x39 Russian Subs

The part of this that caught my eye was getting to shoot Russian Subs. 8-):twisted:

[popper]

Me too. Can we add Tannerite? Always wanted to do that without causing and international incident! Seems like they kinda shoot their own anyway.
Actually wanted to point out that the cfe pistol is good to generate enough gas pressure for semis and fast enough to NOT cause problems like H110. 231 & RD won't. 2400 doesn't seem to work well either - for slow stuff. I'm testing BO as an equal to 10mm/357 sig PCC. Good terminal (12-1500 fps and 150-180 gr ish) but low recoil in AR pistol.

[Alferd Packer]

Oh forget it.

[PositiveCaster]

Forget what???




.

[kavemankel]

I think that I may have to try these. Never drank the new 300 cool aide, and since I have a x39 already it sounds like a lot of fun.

[baragasam]

That's awesome to hear 7.62x39 subs working for so many people. I tried delving into casting subsonic .311s from NOE molds for steel cases (primed with flash hole punched and large rifle primer super glued). Didn't have much success in a AR 7.62x39. Gave up on the project all together.

[WBH]

I think that I may have to try these. Never drank the new 300 cool aide, and since I have a x39 already it sounds like a lot of fun.

Tons of fun and cheap to shoot as well. I was surprized at the accuracy. I've shot up to 230gr bullets.

Just remember case fill % and 9/64th's primer holes are the key to preventing SEE. I also only use Rem 2 1/2 large pistol primers in Federal LP brass.

[popper]

SEE is NOT a problem with single base fast pistol powder. Nor is case fill. Slower rifle powder can be a problem. There is a theory that small flash hole and light loads can allow the primer to be pushed out before the load ignites. It is a piston in a chamber with a small 'valve'. BO sub ammo doesn't use enlarged flash holes. You are not putting 5 gr. of Unique a 30/30 case!

[WBH]

What I have mentioned is just what I have done and has been working for me for the past 15+ years.
That's what makes discussions so interesting......Varying opinions!

[rickys2]

I heard member taking apart a round and removing some powder to slow it down. Never did it, but a cheap way of making Subs.

[LAGS]

That works removing some powder to reduce FPS.
But be careful that you do not reduce the powder charge too much , or it can raise pressures.
You still have to Work up a load.
And some powders will not reduce down to Sub Level.
For an unknown powder , I would not reduce it by more than 10 or 15 percent out of a factory load

[WBH]

I heard member taking apart a round and removing some powder to slow it down. Never did it, but a cheap way of making Subs.

A very dangerous way to try to make subs! There are powder/bullet specific formulas that are proven. As LAGS said.....maybe reduce 10-15%. But I believe you will never hit sub levels of under 1050. And please dont replace the bullet with something longer-heavier etc.
THEN there is the issue of barrel twist. Not the same for long heavy slow bullets as supers.

Just an overall bad idea