Well, I've finally got a 45-70: Now what!

[piwo]

:-D

Hey Fellas, been a while.:( sometime life gets in the way of fun....

My best friends FIL is in pretty bad shape, and it's sad. We went to many gunshow's together, the three of us over the course of 25 years or so, and Ken was always ready to roll. He also had money, which me an my friend did not! Anyway, out at dinner last night and my buddy say's I am to look at his firearm inventory and select something: I was stunned: Ken had quite a collection. My buddy also told me they found another gun tucked away down the basement, and no one knew what it was, but seemed to be black powder. We went to my buddies for a night cap and he asked if I would take a look at it and see if I knew what it was. One look I knew it was a Pedersoli 45-70. Told him so, but didn't know what it's value was as I never owned one. He simply handed it to me and said "take it", no one else will want it.

So now, I'm the owner of a Pedersoli 45-70, CAT 3514. It has rust on the opposite side of the action, the Vernier site also has a bunch of surface rust on it, though not "welded" together. It will take some cleaning for sure, barrel a bit of frost but doesn't appear to be pitted, at least at first glance. I have a number of black powder rifles I cast for, but all flinters and one percussion double barrel. So, what have I gotten myself in to? Me thinks I will need a lot of stuff, but no idea what...…
252207

[Beagle333]

I don't know either. My 45-70s are modern. But way cool of him and congrats to you!!!

[piwo]

I don't know either. My 45-70s are modern. But way cool of him and congrats to you!!!

:drinks: Thanks... I know Pedersoli made some faithful recreation rifles, seems well put together. Wish it wasn't stored in the basement but nothing some RB17 and some elbow grease can't fix. Gonna need a munual, but no idea how to load for cartridge BP.. another discipline all together I believe...…..

[Beagle333]

There is a section of the forum dedicated to black powder cartridges. Maybe they can help.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?30-Black-Powder-Cartridge

[marlinman93]

The Pedersoli Rolling Blocks are a very good gun, and those I've know who owned one had very good results with them. They make a good barrel, and it should be a fun way to enter the world of cartridge reloading. Whether you go with BP or smokeless mild loads, it will be able to serve you well.
If you've never reloaded for fixed case ammo I guess you'll be starting out by simply learning that process and getting all the equipment to load for the .45-70 first. I'd buy any of the better loading manuals by Hornady, Lyman, RCBS, or others. Reading the how to reload section, and talking with others who've been reloading a long time. Especially any who reload for the old BP style cartridges.

[Wayne Smith]

45-70 brass, reloading dies if you don't have them, Lyman M die, FFG BP of several varieties (I assume you already have this) and a drop tube or compression die. Decide the range you want to shoot at and do a bunch of research about the various boolit styles for the various ranges they are best at before you invest in a mold or two.

Start by filling the case with BP, compressing this to the base of the boolit, add boolit, and shoot. Next invest in a wad punch and start trying varying wad material. Oh, forgot about a lube sizer (if you don't have one) and BP lube (easy to make, look in the Lube section here).

Now get ready to do a lot of shooting. Change only one thing at a time, amount of powder, type of powder, type and size (thickness) of wad, boolit, lube, etc. Keep records, there is no way you will remember all of the combinations and their result.

Have fun!

[Kraschenbirn]

Interesting, my Pedersoli 45-70 RB is catalog #3515 (straight stock instead of pistol grip) so it's probably about the same vintage and if yours shoots anywhere near as well, you've been handed a genuine 'keeper'. Mine handles both BP and smokeless loads equally well and has no particular 'quirks' that come to mind.

Bill

[piwo]

45-70 brass, reloading dies if you don't have them, Lyman M die, FFG BP of several varieties (I assume you already have this) and a drop tube or compression die. Decide the range you want to shoot at and do a bunch of research about the various boolit styles for the various ranges they are best at before you invest in a mold or two.

Start by filling the case with BP, compressing this to the base of the boolit, add boolit, and shoot. Next invest in a wad punch and start trying varying wad material. Oh, forgot about a lube sizer (if you don't have one) and BP lube (easy to make, look in the Lube section here).

Now get ready to do a lot of shooting. Change only one thing at a time, amount of powder, type of powder, type and size (thickness) of wad, boolit, lube, etc. Keep records, there is no way you will remember all of the combinations and their result.

Have fun!

Thanks Wayne, thats a lot of good info! ����

[Wayne Smith]

If you are used to reloading it's actually easy, just that the possible variations are practically endless!

[country gent]

Pedersolis barrels and chambers have gotten rave reviews as top shooters for years. Before going to far check twist rate and do a chamber cast to see what you have to work with. Brass, dies, Bullets ( in appropriate weight and dia), lube appropriate for powder. I prefer an expander over the m die for BP loads. The expander can be set up to open the case up the full depth of bullet. You also need to decide what bullet style, Paper patch, or grease groove.
As to specialty equipment if loading BP then a compression die is handy and useful. Also a wad cutter.

As to loading the cartridges here one of my loads to give an idea

Starline 45-70 brass,
Annealed, flash holes deburred trimmed and deburred chamfered. Primer pockets uniformed
Reminfton Large rifle Std primer hand seated
Olde Ensforde 1 1/2f BP 64 grns. Dumped in case with a 3' drop tube to get a uniform start.
.060 Napa rubber fiber wad hand seated onto powder.
This is compressed to depth of base of bullet at seating depth with a compression die Usually around .500 depending on bullet.
2 tracing paper wads hand seated, these make sure the heavy wad doesn't stick to the bullet
Hand seat bullet onto the powder wad stack.
Lightly size around bullet to set neck tension, just enough to hold bullet but bullet can still be turned in case or pulled by hand

This load normally gives 1150-1200 fps with es of 8-10fps. Will hold rams at 500yds all day long if you do your part.

A small wooden punch to seat wads down, compression die drop tube are about the "extras" you may want

[bigted]

You my friend are beginning an addictive and very fun endeavor. Your path can envelope several rifles, lots of boolit molds and Black Powder by the case. Your frustration will be tempered with success along the way. Your success's will be challenged by repeatability with seemingly no answers as to why.

However,

This is or can be some of the most satisfying endeavor of your life. After getting and shooting modern replica's ... if you are like me ... you will yen for original rifles in great shape ... just so every time you take it out ... the only thing that separates you from the late 1800's is time. To set around a small fire in the dingleberries holding an old original can speak to you like nothing else in my put togethers.

Good luck my friend! I firmly hope that you get out of this what I get out of it.

Do not have to shoot 1000 yards nor 600 yards ... not even 300 yards to just have a genuine great time. Shooting game is a super gratifying event followed by rocks at distance unknown. All in all ... I believe you are at the precipice of an addiction that just may consume your imagination for years to come.

WELCOME!!!

[tdoor4570]

black powder cartridge is very habit forming, I shoot an 1884 built in 1890 Springfield trapdoor 45-70 and love it that is where my handle comes from. tdoor4570

[kens]

You are not 'required' to have a lot of stuff just to shoot a 45-70. You 'can' get a lot of stuff, but it not required.
but, be aware that 45-70 ammo is in fact available in varying load levels.
Lightest loads are listed for Trapdoor actions, as in Springfield Trapdoor.
Medium loads are listed for lever guns as in Marlin 1895.
Heavy loads are for Ruger #1 or stronger actions.
If you reload with black powder, you will be at trapdoor levels,
If you reload with smokeless powder, you can load to any intensity level,
Before you reload with smokeless, you should verify which power level your action is capable of. (some rolling blocks were capable of high-power loads)
Shooting 45-70 with trapdoor loads is a hoot, banging on steel , knocking things down, the recoil is a rush itself.
BP loads shot out 200yards and on is really fun.......BANG,,,,,wait for smoke to clear,,,,,,,,,listen for clang on steel,,,,,,,smile !!!,,,,,,,,,,repeat

[piwo]

Geez guys, many many thanks for your thoughtful replies. I'm excited by the adventure, timing is always a hassle but i'll just have to make time. I've been centerfire reloading for @ 40 years, but even the vernacular is different here! First thing i need to do is clean up the rust, both inside and out. Been online reading and watching video's, wish I didn't have to work this week! Well, let the adventure begin. I'll be back re-reading these posts frequently. These old eyes won't likely shoot ling distances, but if i can shoot up to two bills within minute of deer, i'll be one very happy camper.

Cheers, and thanks again for your input and support!

[elk hunter]

Nice rifle!

Some of us are blessed with good friends be sure to tell them that you appreciate them while you can. I lost a friend last March that I was closer to than my own brother, I miss him every day.

Looks like you're going to have a lot of fun.

[Texas by God]

You can load 45-70 ammo for a single shot rifle with a modified nail, a hammer, a wooden dowel, a powder scoop, and a flat surface.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[piwo]

You can load 45-70 ammo for a single shot rifle with a modified nail, a hammer, a wooden dowel, a powder scoop, and a flat surface.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Now this is something I'd pay to see! :)

[piwo]

Nice rifle!

Some of us are blessed with good friends be sure to tell them that you appreciate them while you can. I lost a friend last March that I was closer to than my own brother, I miss him every day.

Looks like you're going to have a lot of fun.

Sorry to hear about your loss. I'm in my 60's now, lost my mom last year and two close work buddies. Its why we work so hard to have fun: cause life is shorter than we'll ever imagine. Cheers :drinks:

[tunnug]

Keep in mind that the 45-70 and most of all the old dash calibers stood for, caliber-amount of black powder,
45 caliber- 70 grains Powder.

[Rick459]

252261 circa 1975
shoot it you will love it

[Matrix]

"Oh, what a lucky man he was"
Congratulations on your acquisition. I love to hear when a person acquires a beautiful old firearm that he appreciates, respects and will use.
I have just bought my first 45-70 and have been very fortunate to get great advise from many folks here on castboolits. They have been amazing. The rifle is a Uberti 1884 Hiigh Wall.
I will be reloading my own ammo and am just starting to cast boolits also.
So, I have bought 45-70 dies, some cast lead bullets from a gunsmith where I bought the gun to get started. I am waiting for a Lee Lead Pot to arrive and am going to build a PID controller for the lead pot. Since I reload already, I have powder, primers, press, etc.
Good luck with your new rifle. I'm sure you will have a great time with it.
Keep us updated with how it shoots when you get it cleaned up.

[piwo]

Thanks again guys. Yes, i WILL be shooting this rifle, and will at some point start reliading for it. I cast round ball and some conicals for a couple flintlocks and a percussion shotgun, and got a couple hundred pounds of pure lead, and maybe another 100 lbs of "dental lead", which pings when blocks are dropped onto each other so i know it has some antimony in it. And i load for modern rifle and pistol, but never for BP cartridge. Doing my reading now..:-D

[Tazlaw]

It seems I remember reading (several places) reloading BP cartridges requires NO AIR GAP! It causes way too much pressure. If you want a reduced load, you must use a filler to take up the space. Unlike modern powders. It’s been a bunch of years since I read that, so do your own research. Better safe than any other way.

[grantharris1945]

What kind of field of view do you get with a scope like that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rick459]

What kind of field of view do you get with a scope like that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://media.mwstatic.com/productdocuments/owners%20manual/927/product_manual_927781.pdf

[Groo]

Groo here
Unless you just dont want to , the gun will shoot smokeless 45-70 loads just fine..
If you want to shoot BP get the correct manual .
I suggest the SPG reloading manual [ got mine from Shiloh rifles.]
There are some tricks to shooting BP cartridges we have forgotten.

[Drm50]

I have had Trapdoors, RBs and replicas of both as well as Marlin 1895 and #1 & #3 Rugers all of which I still have. Unless there was reason I would shot smokeless and cast bullets. I have a manual that is special for only 45/70 loadings, got it at midway USA. Your rifle repro is much stronger than original BP model and made with factory ammo in mind. 45/70 name brand ammo is mild because of liability of shooting it in old original BP era rifles. If you are going to use it for fun gun you can load factory dupe with cast and smokeless as a good starting point. There are many smokeless loads to choose from. It's an easy cartridge to load and long case life.

[warren5421]

A very good book for BP loading, Loading cartridges for the original .45-70 Springfield rifle and carbine By J. S Wolf. The book represents a wealth of both research and personal information about reloading 45-70 cartridges with blackpowder for those of us who appreciate tradition and strive to keep it alive! A book no 45-70 black powder cartridge reloader should be without! Was always advertised in SPG's Black Powder magazine, have not seen one since Gibbs sold it. The BPCR shoot out to 1000 yards using heavy bullets.

[DigBig]

You will find that the Pedersoli loves the 535 grs Postell for greasers. In my 30" heavy target barrel, I have found a load with that bullet that likes much more compression than is conventionally recommended. Paper patched loads are tougher to advise on. If you want to pursue it, there are some good books, like Mathews, "The Paper Jacket". People have very strong, often bizarre, opinions on paper patching, so keep that in mind.

Great rifle. Enjoy!

[Toymaker]

St. Peters, eh? Always help out a fellow Missourian. From Ste Genevieve, wish I was back there.
It's a shooter. You're going to love it. This powder isn't available any more :o( but Accurate 5744 works about the same. Couldn't find my pictures for that powder load or for black powder. Have fun!!
254056

[Alferd Packer]

I shot the heavy loads in mine.
I no longer hunt .
I got a collar button mould and shoot forager loads.
The mold casts a 130 grain, others may cast 140 grain.
Can be loaded over 5 grains of black powder by seating the bullet deep in the case, down on the powder.
Just a fun load in 45/70.
Close by in IL.

[Captain*Kirk]

You will love it!
If you choose, factory Remington ammo launches at around 1330fps with a 405gr FN jacketed bullet. I shot these out of my High Wall before reloading and found accuracy outstanding...3 shot groups at 100 yard I could cover with a quarter off the bench.
The beauty of a single shot is when reloading, you can extend the bullet seating just off the leade for better accuracy and no crimping is required for range fodder. The Pedersoli should handle smokeless as well as black powder with equal dexterity.
Congrats on a great acquisition!

[singleshotcajun]

I just purchase an identical rifle on GB, should have it next week. 254689254690
I'm going on this journey with you Brother. I already load for my Swedish military Rolling block and a Snider . I'm thinking this will be a piece of cake comparatively.

[oscarflytyer]

Condolences for your friend. Also sweet rifle. If you are interested in a smokeless start load, I suggest this one, a Trapdoor level load. Lee 405 HB cast pushed by 38.5 gr of IMR-3031. 1375 fps from my Marlin. Also shoot it in my Rem Rolling Block.

[Alcast]

First,congrats for having such a nice friend...and such a nice gun.This model is next on my list.
I already own a Billy Dixon Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70 and was so impressed by the quality of fit and finish that I bought a Pedersoli High Wall in 38-55.
I don't shoot black powder in my guns.My 45-70 groups good with 4198 and very good with 4759 which I'll replace with 5744 when my supply gets exhausted.Very good to me is between 1'' and 1 1/2'' at 100.
My 38-55 started at 4 to 5'' at 100 and is now an honest below 2''.Since I'm quite inexperienced at shooting cast in rifles(beginning my 2nd year),I have good hope I'll break the 1'' barrier quite soon.
All this not to brag about my performance(lot of good cast bullet shooters can do a lot better)but just to say that the process is really fun and can be done shooting smokeless.

[samari46]

Spence passed away a few years ago. The book can be purchased through his wife. I believe she lives in Louisiana. Don't have and address. Best to use google She does take credit cards and is very nice. Frank

[rfd]

congrats on a fine rifle. pedersoli rollers and sharps are typically way under rated, and i've had more of their rollers and sharps than my fingers (and a few toes) :) ... all will probably be more consistently accurate than their shooters and all will digest modern smokeless ammunition let alone proper black powder cartridges. most of mine were of the .45-70 persuasion, with a few .40-65's thrown in for good measure. but it's the .45-70 that's top dawg in my 19th century cartridge book. for the kids, i load 12 grains of trail boss under a 340 grain greaser, and a pedi .45-70 roller becomes shoot-all-day fun plinker to 200 yards. for getting target serious out to 200 and way beyond, time for a full case of black powder, a wad, a tad of compression and top it off with a paper patched 525 grain slick. love the rollers as much as the sharps. love the pedi guns.

a favorite .45-70 pedi roller i wish i had back ...
https://i.imgur.com/PGU3Ana.jpg

here's a real remington roller .45-70 that i'll be working on purty soon ...
https://i.imgur.com/Ucgw2rs.jpg