Lyman 357446, Can Anything be done to make it shoot?

[Wolfram Malukker]

So I just picked up a 2-cavity Lyman 357446 with a handle for less than the cost of a used pair of handles, and immediately after I read up and saw where it is a hit-or-miss mold. I've still not cast any bullets with either of the two molds I have, mostly due to having little time during this part of the year.

The mold itself looks fine-it's the 162gr SWC, PB mold. Is there anything that can be done to improve the chances of having a good shooter?

[tazman]

I am told it shoots better the faster you push it. Many seem to have good results in 357 mag. 38 special, not so much.

[Beagle333]

Yes. It's a wonderful boolit, I think I have 6 of those molds. But it's not a plinker, it must go fast. Put some speed on it and you'll like it.

[KenT7021]

For years the only mold I had for .38 Spl./.357 Mag was the 357446.I used it in various Colt's and S&W's.I always got excellent accuracy.I normally just used run of the mill reloading data.I didn't load really hot loads since I sometimes used the loads in a Police Positive Spl.

[MT Gianni]

Shoot it and see. My examples had undersized front driving bands.

[PapaG]

First mould I bought, around 1958. Liked it so much I got a 4 cavity later. For years it was my go to for 38 spec/357. Best load in my stainless 4 3/4 Blackhawk was 12/2400. In the files I have a 100 yard target showing five in five inches with my, at that time, 32 year old eyes. You can do like Skelton did with the 358156 and crimp in either of the two grooves but I stick with the top groove. Shot a lot of plinking loads with 3 grains of BE in a raft of guns. Never found it to be temperamental. I still run a few hundred off when I fire up the pot to have around when I'm too lazy to mess with the gas checks on the 358156. RCBS 38-150KT has proven to be one of my most versatile slugs, even working in some 9 mms.

[rintinglen]

In my own experience, it is about 75% as accurate as a proper Keith design. As has been alluded to, accuracy seems to improve somewhat as velocities increase, but accuracy Still falls behind either the 358-429 or 358-477. My first 4 cavity was one of these and I shot a lot of them, but my wad cutters (Cramer 18h) shot groups half the size of the size of the 446, 2” versus 4 “ at 25 yards. The 358-429 fell in between.
I believe the problem to stem from the under-sized front band. The 429-460 shares the same problem.

[Dutchman]

That mold.. 357446.. was my first .38 Special mold. First from a Colt Diamondback and later
a S&W Model 28 .357. Even down to 3.5 grs Unique it would eat out the X ring at 25 yards.

Later went to 358156 in .357 so to utilize gas checks in heavy loads. Used with and without
gas checks... shot equally good without.

Dutch

[tazman]

Wolfram..... As you can see from the varied responses, each gun makes it's own rules as to what it will shoot well.
All you can do is try it out and see how it works for you in your handgun.
If you do so, please report back on your results. More data is always a good thing.

[beagle]

Oh boy, he we go again. I've had 3 or 4 in my casting career and the milage didn't vary. Plinking at 100 yards against a clay bank. Out of a cylinder, one or two flyers and I mean 1-2 feet flyers. Same result out of the same chamber.
Number 1 solution: Shoot 'em fast. They don't like lower velocities.
I opened all the bands on one to .361". No improvement. I HP'd one and no improvement. Figured I'd move the CG farther back.
I sized up and down the spectrum. No improvement. I used Pat Marlins PB .35 pop can GCs on them. Some improvement but still flyers.
I had a very old Python with a smaller diameter bore and it shot them pretty well at .356" but still many flyers. This was after firing thousands of rounds as I only had a couple of moulds at the time.
I've used them in a Python, Model 28 Smith, two Ruger Blackhawks, a Model 15 Smith, a Model 19 Smith, a 10" Contender, and a Marlin M1894 carbine. It's not the guns.
It's either me or the design of the bullet.
My advice. Shoot at higher velocities and take what you get. If it's good, enjoy. If not, move on. Too many good shooting designs out there to beat a dead horse. This is after firing maybe 5,000 rounds. /beagle

[Dutchman]

I knew I had a picture.. Two of my first .38 Special molds: 357446 and 35893.

https://images42.fotki.com/v1653/photos/2/28344/1676633/q36-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/wapenroom/q36.html)

[Wolfram Malukker]

Yep. Just cast 80 last night, measured the result:

Alloy was 3 parts sheet lead, 1 part monotype, pencil hardness test showed B to smudge, and 2B would cut it, so 12-13BHN? Not knowing it, I bet I scooped some of the antimony off the top, there was a floaty goopy dross on top that just would not flux back in with sawdust, but it's very brittle after I scooped it off and cooled it. Maybe melt it back into the soft lead later?

Front driving bands 0.356", base band 0.357". Uh-oh. Weight 158.2 to 159.6gns.

https://i.imgur.com/QFgbtIkh.jpg

Went ahead and pan-lubed a handful with Saeco Green, in the cut-off bottom of a 28 ounce tomato can. We'll see what happens tomorrow, I have some 2400 and H110 here.

[tazman]

Nice looking boolits. I will be interested in your report.

[Wolfram Malukker]

Loaded 25 rounds in thrice-fired Fiocci cases. 13.2gr 2400, CCI 500 primers, COAL 1.588". Light crimp into the top groove, not even fully crimped, really.

Fired from a Taurus M66 6" barrel revolver, my inept pistol shooting meant 4" 7 shot groups at 10 yards. (truly, It's me.)

Fired from the same revolver by my cousin, 2" groups at 10 yards.

Fired from a curious 1894 Lever action owner, 16" barrel, 2" 5 shot group at 75 yards. Not too shabby!

We did aim for 1 grain less than the published maximum, thus, 13 was the target, and 13.2 is what the powder thrower layed in for us. Boolits ranged from 158.2 to 159.6 grains, and we recovered zero this trip. Next trip, we'll set up some wet newspaper, and see about recovering a few. Or we'll shoot them through jugs of water. We'll see next trip.

[tazman]

That works. Pretty well from the sound of it. Well done.