Ruger .44 Special Flattop Bisley-Review

[Hrfunk]

You fellows helped talk me into this one (Not that it took a lot of effort to do so, Ha, ha!). Anyway, I hope you all enjoy the review!

Howard


https://youtu.be/WCUd4plQ2Gs

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Looks like you got a good one and vary nice shooting

[onelight]

Very informative and realistic review. GOOD JOB
In my experience Rugers tend to benefit a great deal from a total disassembly to clean and deburr in a lot of places when new and smooth up nicely. My stainless 4.6" 44 Bisley had to have a taller front sight to get zeroed ,looks like yours did well with just adjustment , nice.
Thanks for the video.

[Hrfunk]

Looks like you got a good one and vary nice shooting

Thank you!

Howard

[Hrfunk]

Very informative and realistic review. GOOD JOB
In my experience Rugers tend to benefit a great deal from a total disassembly to clean and deburr in a lot of places when new and smooth up nicely. My stainless 4.6" 44 Bisley had to have a taller front sight to get zeroed ,looks like yours did well with just adjustment , nice.
Thanks for the video.


You are most welcome. Thanks for watching!

Howard

[rintinglen]

Nice review, Howard. Love the jacket and hat, (brilliant minds think alike) I have a similar coat and hat, myself.
I've had my eye on those bisley-framed 44's for sometime, but I can't really justify another gun at this time.

I've had a Ruger Flattop with the traditional plow handle grip for about 7 years now, and it is one of my favorite woods-walking guns. The only complaint I had was with the ill-fitting grips. Why Ruger can't put a decent fitting grip on their single-action revolvers I can't figure out, given that the Italian Manufacturers manage to do a pretty good job on guns that cost less, but that has been true of every Ruger SA I have bought in the last 10 years (7 including this one). Mine did not exhibit the binding that you describe, which I think is related to the transfer bar, but It has slicked up with use. I have about 1800 rounds through mine, and it is one of my favorites. The accuracy is exceptional. It is well worth spending the money on a trigger job.

The Skeeter Load is what mine is sighted in for, but I have actually shot more NOE 432-232 WC boolits. 4.5 grains of Red Dot and big bore shooting fun abounds.
252164252165252167

[fivegunner]

Great Job Howard, I have the same Ruger , your load( Skeeter Skelton) Is good in mine also, but ( Power Pistol ) is my go too load . Thank you for another great video . Best regards Frank

[Char-Gar]

Another excellent video.

[Hrfunk]

Nice review, Howard. Love the jacket and hat, (brilliant minds think alike) I have a similar coat and hat, myself.
I've had my eye on those bisley-framed 44's for sometime, but I can't really justify another gun at this time.

I've had a Ruger Flattop with the traditional plow handle grip for about 7 years now, and it is one of my favorite woods-walking guns. The only complaint I had was with the ill-fitting grips. Why Ruger can't put a decent fitting grip on their single-action revolvers I can't figure out, given that the Italian Manufacturers manage to do a pretty good job on guns that cost less, but that has been true of every Ruger SA I have bought in the last 10 years (7 including this one). Mine did not exhibit the binding that you describe, which I think is related to the transfer bar, but It has slicked up with use. I have about 1800 rounds through mine, and it is one of my favorites. The accuracy is exceptional. It is well worth spending the money on a trigger job.

The Skeeter Load is what mine is sighted in for, but I have actually shot more NOE 432-232 WC boolits. 4.5 grains of Red Dot and big bore shooting fun abounds.
252164252165252167

Thank you! I really like the Skeeter load. It will do 90% of anything you can reasonably ask of a handgun. I'm hoping that hitch in the action goes away with use. Otherwise I might be sending my Bisley back to Ruger. In any case, I need to find a good gunbelt for it!

Howard

[Hrfunk]

Great Job Howard, I have the same Ruger , your load( Skeeter Skelton) Is good in mine also, but ( Power Pistol ) is my go too load . Thank you for another great video . Best regards Frank


Thank you Frank!

Howard

[Hickory]

Always informative, clean and concise.
Howard, you do an excellent job everytime.

[historicfirearms]

Always informative, clean and concise.
Howard, you do an excellent job everytime.
I agree and am subscribed to your channel. Keep up the good work.

[Hrfunk]

Always informative, clean and concise.
Howard, you do an excellent job everytime.

Thank you!

Howard

[Hrfunk]

I agree and am subscribed to your channel. Keep up the good work.

Will do! Thanks for watching and thanks for the subscription!

Howard

[buckwheatpaul]

Howard....always loved the 44 Special....carried S&W 29 for years on the streets.....used the Speer Lawman 200 gr bullet....but practiced with the 44 Special and cast Lyman 429421 (Keith) bullets with 10 gr. of Unique. Thanks for the first class review of Ruger Flattop Revolver!

[oldhenry]

Howard, an excellent video.

I own that exact same model FT: my 1st. .44 spec & is one of my favorites. Mine did not have the rough spot on cocking that you described. I must admit that I haven't tried the SS load. For 50 yd. chickens I find the Lyman 429421, SAECO 441, H&G 45 & Accurate 43-210A to be equally accurate with a variety of powders. My favorite is the 43-210A with WST: a very mild load that will tip over the chickens if I do my part (also controllable in my GP100 3" SS).

Henry

[contender1]

Very nice.
I happen to enjoy my Rugers quite a bit,, and I have a few of the 1st run of the 44 Spl's Lipsey;s put out. They are not the Bisley's.

I would like to offer a POLITE clarification to a few comments you made.
You mentioned the front sight, ramped,, and dark. Wishing for a contrast. You mentioned replacement front sights, to include fiber optics. While this is true to a degree,, you should have clarified that the changes to a BLUED gun would not be easy. You have to either remove, & re-solder a front sight, then re-blue the gun. Or mill off the blade, grooving & drilling the base, and then add a pinned front sight replacement blade. The Stainless models have an easily replaced front sight blade by just removing the blade insert. Quite often, many folks desire a different front sight and for blued guns this isn't as easy as a stainless gun.
Another minor correction. You mentioned the grip frame on the Blackhawks,,, and causing knuckle pain. You mentioned your SUPER Blackhawk as the culprit. The Blackhawks are a different model,, and do not have the squared backed Dragoon grip frame that the Supers have. The Bisleys are a total different grip frame design as well. But only the Supers have the square backed g/f. AND,, there are Hunter Models of the Super that have a rounded trigger guard as well. Just a minor clarification there too.

One feature of the Bisley's you didn't mention was the Bisley trigger, it is a different contour than the Blackhawks.

And lastly,, the grip frame material. You used a magnet to test the backstrap, and the trigger guard. Almost all models of Ruger SA's have a one piece grip frame assy, which includes the trigger guard. Only the Bearcat has a different, separate trigger guard. Maybe a mentioning of the little fact that it is all one piece.

PLEASE,, PLEASE do not take this as criticism. it is offered as a CLARIFICATION of a few minor points you missed. Many newer Ruger owners may not know these things,, and it helps to clarify such things to some folks.

[Hrfunk]

Thank you for the clarifications! I am obviously not the world's foremost authority on Ruger firearms, so I need all the help I can get.

Howard

[jonp]

Yeah, I bet we had to work hard talking you into this one!

Another great video, Howard. Thanks for the review

[Hrfunk]

Howard....always loved the 44 Special....carried S&W 29 for years on the streets.....used the Speer Lawman 200 gr bullet....but practiced with the 44 Special and cast Lyman 429421 (Keith) bullets with 10 gr. of Unique. Thanks for the first class review of Ruger Flattop Revolver!

It seems to me there was a character in a movie who subscribed to that same notion. I would try to pull the character's name from my memory but a man's got to know his limitations.

Howard

[Hrfunk]

Yeah, I bet we had to work hard talking you into this one!

Another great video, Howard. Thanks for the review


Are you kidding? My arm is still sore from all the twisting!

Howard

[contender1]

Glad to see you weren't upset by my comments! All too often,, some folks on the computer get upset when others make comments like I did.
My goal is to try hard to help educate others about Rugers,, properly. AND,, I can be wrong occasionally myself. :D

I was one of many who pushed the fine folks at Lipsey's to produce the first .44 spl's. They did 1000 each of 2 barrel lengths originally. The demand was such that Ruger offered it as a production item. Then along came the other versions,, such as the fine Bisley you showcased.
Quite a popular offering for sure.

One thing to note about Ruger actions. Guns are assembled by workers,, within the tolerances at their station. Then the assy is moved to another person/station. It's a step by step process,, and as long as it "passes" the fit & function at one station, it moves to the next station. This continues until it's assembled. Then, directly off the line,, it's test fired for FUNCTION,,, and not smoothness etc. The test firing is done inside a control box,, not by human hands. As such,, the occasional burrs,, roughness,, etc are NOT detected during assy. Remember,, they want to produce volumes of guns,, quickly. Combine that with the fact that many of the gun assemblers are not real "gun folks" or especially gun builders,, a percentage of firearms may function & pass the machine test firing,, but when places in real hands,, the occasional rough action is found.
I have witnessed the assy process first hand & this was one of my points of discussion.

[Hrfunk]

Nope, not upset at all. I appreciate the additional info. As I said, I'm not an authority on Ruger firearms. I'm much more familiar with products from other companies. Having been to a couple of other factories over the years and seen the assembly of various firearms, I know you are correct with respect to the fact that persons in the process perform inspections/checks on their particular step in said process and then send the firearm on to the next person in the line. Typically with other manufacturers, there is a final inspection and function check prior to the test-firing procedure. Anything found amiss during that final inspection causes the firearm to be adjusted/repaired before being test fired and packaged.

I assume Ruger does something similar, and that is where I would have expected them to find the issue with my revolver's action. Now in their defense, the revolver does, in fact, function. So perhaps that was sufficient for it to pass its final inspection. It is just annoying as the end purchaser to have a firearm that needs to go back for service.

By the way, I'm not bashing Ruger or singling them out. I've had to send back several firearms over the years from different manufacturers for a variety problems. Over the last few years, however, it seems like the problems making it out of the factories are becoming more and more common. Maybe that's inevitable as mechanization replaces craftsmanship and cost-cutting measures are implemented; but it makes them no less irksome.

In the end, I like my .44 Special Bisley. Sooner or later I'll get that little problem resolved and move on with life!

Thanks again,
Howard

[contender1]

"By the way, I'm not bashing Ruger or singling them out. I've had to send back several firearms over the years from different manufacturers for a variety problems. Over the last few years, however, it seems like the problems making it out of the factories are becoming more and more common. Maybe that's inevitable as mechanization replaces craftsmanship and cost-cutting measures are implemented; but it makes them no less irksome."

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well put!!!!!!!!!!

All big manufacturers have stockholders to answer to,, and production is the way to sell more & make more money. It's the way of modern manufacturing. And then the skill levels of employees,, well,, think of the firearm business. Employees must pass drug & background tests. That can eliminate many potential employees easily. Former CEO Mike Fifer told me once; "I've got everybody in New Hampshire hired that wants to work and that can pass these tests. I could use 50 more employees right now!"
And when I was at a Ruger plant,, I not only watched the work,, I studied the employees. Some were truly "gun folks" while others,, well,, they were just assemblers or machine operators. I could delve into a lot more,, but you summed it up quite well above!

[comprschrg]

I have the stainless FT.
Sent the first one back twice it had a terrible gritty action and the hammer stuck like yours. (Would lock up bad) The sent me a new pistol, except a 4 5/8 barrel. They had no 5" left. Not happy.
The new one also jams like yours, the grips fit worse than yours also. I'm very displeased with ruger. Never buying another ruger!!!!!

[Hrfunk]

I have the stainless FT.
Sent the first one back twice it had a terrible gritty action and the hammer stuck like yours. (Would lock up bad) The sent me a new pistol, except a 4 5/8 barrel. They had no 5" left. Not happy.
The new one also jams like yours, the grips fit worse than yours also. I'm very displeased with ruger. Never buying another ruger!!!!!

Wow! I'm sorry to hear about that. Did they give you the option of repairing the one you sent back, or did they just replace it with something they had on hand?

Howard

[onelight]

Before ordering my stainless I looked at a blued like new used flat top 44 spec. at a gun shop and it was binding when cocked and would occasionally lock hard enough to cause concern of doing damage with any more pressure applied to the hammer it felt like what you guys describe.
I would sure like to hear from someone who has discovered the cause and fix of this issue.
I have some experience tinkering with most SA Ruger models , the guns I have seen or heard about with this problem have all been 44 flat tops but I don't know if it is limited to them.

[Hrfunk]

My best guess at this point is the hand is catching on the inside of the frame as the hammer is cocked. I'm not sure what else would cause the binding before the hand engages the cylinder ratchet. The cylinder is free by the time that catch occurs, so I don't think it's an issue with the cylinder stop.

Howard

[comprschrg]

Howard,
the first one I sent back (I special ordered it) stainless 5". grip fit was so bad you could see the step inside the grip frame because they didn't grind/sand the casting sprue on one one side causing the grip to be held back.
If you take your grips off, I bet the positioning hole (in the grips) are twice the size needed to fit the roll pin that's in the grip frame. They just find a happy medium fit, and crank the crap out of the screw.
I was hesitant to send it back because the timing was perfect. BUT.....the grip issue, giant gouge between the trigger gaurd & frame fit, and terrible auction. The killer was some bone head eather fanned the action or spun the cylinder, & slammed the gate. Because three cylinder notches were just about peened completely out.
When I called ruger (had a long talk) the guy was super nice. He looked up the history & found out it had been to three distributors over a few years.
They sent it back & it looked like it had been used to teach retards (special needs) how to sand & polish.
They used a wire wheel to round EVERYTHING!
It got sent back with nice letter.
I had to wait a few months for them to get around to making more, except they weren't making any more 5 ". Only the 4 5/8.
Moral of this. DON'T ORDER ONE. LOOK IT OVER GOOD BEFORE TAKING IT HOME.

[comprschrg]

I had pictures, but my phone sent tem to cloud, or smithing, and can't find them now.

[comprschrg]

As far as the hammer sticking.
This one has done it maybe 5 times. Always when your not ready.
I've had a number of rugers apart it's eye opening how little it takes to change the timing/workings of some of the parts.
Mine hasn't locked up in quite some time now. Just gotta shoot it more to get the trust back.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I’ve got one of these with the 4” barrel from the first run done for Lipsey’s. It runs like a Rolex. I’m stunned and saddened that the on-going production is having so many problems...

Now, I do have a 50th Anniversary 44 Magnum Blackhawk which has the barrel not screwed in far enough (shoulder wasn’t cut far enough on the barrel), requiring the rear sight to be all the way to the left to hit paper.... That was a well-known/common problem with those.

[onelight]

My best guess at this point is the hand is catching on the inside of the frame as the hammer is cocked. I'm not sure what else would cause the binding before the hand engages the cylinder ratchet. The cylinder is free by the time that catch occurs, so I don't think it's an issue with the cylinder stop.

Howard
That makes sense , I would think the hand or transfer bar but who knows .
The Bisley I have felt fine out of the box I did a basic cleaning fired 200 rounds to make sure no major issues , only one was front sight was to short for factor equivalent loads. I ordered a taller sight when it came in I did a total tear down and cleaned out a few chips and buffing compound cleaned up all the burrs put in a shim kit and a couple of springs . I almost ordered a set of grips but thought I try reshaping the factory's grips first , huge improvement on the feel for me on the grips with a little work.
I have had dozens of Ruger SAs through the years and I think this is going to be my favorite.
I certainly hope you get yours lined out they are a dandy gun when sorted.

[Hrfunk]

That makes sense , I would think the hand or transfer bar but who knows .
The Bisley I have felt fine out of the box I did a basic cleaning fired 200 rounds to make sure no major issues , only one was front sight was to short for factor equivalent loads. I ordered a taller sight when it came in I did a total tear down and cleaned out a few chips and buffing compound cleaned up all the burrs put in a shim kit and a couple of springs . I almost ordered a set of grips but thought I try reshaping the factory's grips first , huge improvement on the feel for me on the grips with a little work.
I have had dozens of Ruger SAs through the years and I think this is going to be my favorite.
I certainly hope you get yours lined out they are a dandy gun when sorted.

I think that's the part of this that bugs me the most. With the exception of this one issue, I really like this revolver. It's like buying a brand new car that you really like, and having the engine periodically stall. Now you have to take it back to the shop and screw around getting it fixed (hopefully).

Howard

[If1Hitu]

You fellows helped talk me into this one (Not that it took a lot of effort to do so, Ha, ha!). Anyway, I hope you all enjoy the review!

Howard


https://youtu.be/WCUd4plQ2Gs It's a beautiful revolver,thanks for sharing the video.

[sonoransixgun]

Enjoyed watching....Thanks!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Excellent video Howard! I have the 4 5/8 version and mine shoots pretty well too. I also have the big one.

I was rooting for you on that third shot! Well done.

Randy

[Hrfunk]

Excellent video Howard! I have the 4 5/8 version and mine shoots pretty well too. I also have the big one.

I was rooting for you on that third shot! Well done.

Randy

Thanks Randy! I'll take all the Rooting I can get!

Howard

[bigted]

H R ... might remove the grips and inspect the spring and strut as well as the block the strut moves in and out of.

They are a pain to disassemble and reassemble ... but those struts can and do remain rough with sharp edges that grab onto the spring, strut block. Smoothing this strut goes a long way for a smoother action.

I agree that the customer should never need to disassemble their new gun ... but ... especially a gun that has been awaited and lusted after ... to take the chance upon returning it ... and finding out there is no replacement and having it replaced with a "second" choice would be heartbreaking.

My second gen Colt SAA is prime example. I found a rough action and horrible trigger ... rather then allowing it out of my paws, I began smoothing carefully but considered sending it to a Colt Doctor and foot the bill myself just so my loooong awaited revolver had zero chance of getting away from me.

[Green Frog]

One would hint that at the current MSRP for brand name firearms, the customer would receive more than a fancy DIY kit, but that seems to be where we are going. I remember 30 years or more ago that if you wanted a 45 Bullseye gun, you bought a new Colt Government Model or a GI surplus gun and paid about as much as the original price to get it ready for the firing line. More guns to choose from now, but improvements?? Not so much. :roll:

The crotchety old Frog

[W.R.Buchanan]

Guns are built to a price point now. There are two major factors in building guns, Materials and Assembly. Along with the assembly comes hand work which takes time and costs money.

As the production of internal parts gets better and cheaper every year, the amount of hand work goes down and thus the Prices can go down. Also there is pressure from management to make things faster because time is money.

Most Generic Gun Makers are in business solely to make money. Thus time is money, and as long as the final product is Serviceable and Saleable they are good to go. We are not talking English Best Gun Makers, we are talking Guns for the Masses. The English Best Makers are in the business of producing Perfection or as close and is Humanly possible. Time doesn't matter to them, they Bill strictly on a Time and Materials basis, and if you have to ask what the final price will be, you probably can't afford the gun. This is sometimes called a Blank Check?

Perfection is unobtainable at Generic Prices. Forget about it, or you can go to Custom Gun Makers that do produce Museum Grade Guns. These guns cost more money because they have more Handwork and thus more Time put into them.

All Generic Guns probably need some minor work to become nice shooters, they aren't for display, they are working guns. I know every one that I have ever bought needed some kind of TLC.

My SBH Bisley needed the barrel cut of to 5" and a new sight soldered onto the barrel which meant it had to be reblued. Then I needed it to have a Free Spin Pawl so the Cylinder would rotate in both directions and I included a Big Button Ejector when I put the Free Spin Pawl in. I bought that gun for $525 and put another $300 in it. It is unique and a joy to shoot. It will sell for $1000 someday.

My BH Bisley came in really nice. It was one of the first 500 unit run of these made for Lipsey's that sold out in 2 days! It already had a free spin pawl and was really nice. I put the Big Button Ejector in it and was done. I have $500 in that gun.

My S&W 696 was bought used for $950 with <50 rounds thru it, and the barrel was severely leaded. Took me 15 minutes to clean the lead out.! I put X-frame grips on it for $35 and a different front sight for $25. It is, and was, perfect from the factory however it was also an $1100 gun! The SA trigger breaks like glass at Exactly 3 lbs and the DA trigger is as smooth as glass at 9 lbs. It is a much higher quality gun than either of the Rugers, but it also cost twice as much.

All my 4 Glocks got different Mag Release Buttons and Slide Release Levers and different Sights. All of them spent several nights in front of the TV finding and dealing with all the little sharp edges and places that grind your hands into submission. I paid about $500 for each one. Nobody can make a duty type pistol work for you,,, better than you! Or I could have bought a ZEV Glock ready to go for $2500, that still needed work!

My whole point here is that if you think you are going to get perfection for your hard earned $500, you are dreamin' !!! You will get closer around $1000 and when you get into the $1500-2000 guns you are much more likely to get what you thought you paid for.

One on my Favorite Signs growing up was over the door at a friends Speed Shop. It said,,,

"Speed costs money,,, how fast do you want to go?"

I have a Friend who is a real Shotgun Nut. He just paid $53,000 for a "made to order" Perrazzi Shotgun. He also waited 3 years to get it. It is spectacular!,,, and he knows the difference, and that's why he paid the money.

If you don't know the difference??? well,,, you get the idea..

That's the whole story right there.

Randy.

[DougGuy]

There is one very solid price point with just about ANY Ruger single action revolver, which delivers the goods EVERY TIME!

First, if there is no thread choke at the barrel/frame juncture, you can very affordably bring that revolver to 95% of it's potential by addressing only 4 things.

Number one would be cylinder throat diameters. This is a very affordable one time fix to have them sized half thou over the boolit diameter you choose to shoot.

Number two, recut the forcing cone on 11 degrees, even a novice with moderate mechanical abilities can rent the cutter kit from 4D rentals and do it at home, they have a very well done video showing how to use the tool, this lifts the FFL requirement for shipping the gun to a shop.

Number three, remove the hammer and have the height of the hammer pad carefully lowered which greatly reduces and in some cases completely removes the creep from the trigger, firing is now crisp and consistent. (I also suggest "camming" the hammer after reassembly by cocking the gun, pushing forward on the hammer spur, and pulling the trigger, this burnishes the newly defined sear/hammer engagement and smooths it making the pull even more smooth and predictable).

Number four, install a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring upon reassembly.

You have around $150 invested in these improvements, which most will agree will put the Ruger single action firmly into the "best it can be" status. The before and after difference is night and day. You get a LOT of bang for the buck in these basic improvements, any further improvements after this are incremental and much more expensive for much less gain.

[Hrfunk]

W.R. I'm going to agree with you in part and disagree with you in part. I think you are correct in your assertion that one should not expect custom shop appearance or performance from a production grade firearm. Conversely, I think it's entirely reasonable to expect the production grade firearm to function properly and provide adequate performance for its general intended use. To draw a comparison, if one were to purchase a Ford Taurus, it would be foolish to expect it to look and perform like a Ferrari. Still, the purchaser should be able to expect his new car will start, run reasonably well, and get him to wherever he wants to go.

Howard

[onelight]

W.R. I'm going to agree with you in part and disagree with you in part. I think you are correct in your assertion that one should not expect custom shop appearance or performance from a production grade firearm. Conversely, I think it's entirely reasonable to expect the production grade firearm to function properly and provide adequate performance for its general intended use. To draw a comparison, if one were to purchase a Ford Taurus, it would be foolish to expect it to look and perform like a Ferrari. Still, the purchaser should be able to expect his new car will start, run reasonably well, and get him to wherever he wants to go.

Howard
I agree completely , a revolver should function reliably and safely from the box , we as customers should not find these kinds of problems at the gun counter.