I want pure lead!

[pakmc]

I'm using lead vent pipe covers from reroofing houses and where the flat piece is soldered to the round pipe I cut it up and put the whole thing in my melting pot! I'm trying to shoot black powder pistols(.36 and .44's and a friends .31) and these are hard to get in to the cylinder. does anyone know if this little bit of solder really makes a big difference in the hardness of the balls? my latest trick is I cleaned out my pot and cut up some more vent pipe covers and I didn't put the soldered piece into my pot.(Lee, 20lb. dip it out.) but has any one run into this problem before now? I'll check it out in the morning!and no, I don't have a hardness tester.
Pat

[swamp]

I always melt it off and keep for the tin. Used to get a lot of pipe with joints.

[mehavey]

Unless you're really getting a LOT of the actual solder involved, a little bit of tin makes very little true "hardness" difference.

252140

[Guido4198]

I believe it is supposed to be hard to seat a roundball into the cylinder of a BP revolver. You should actually be cutting a very thin ring of lead during the seating operation in order to have a proper seal.

[charlie b]

I used to use WW for my Remington. It had pretty good edges on the chamber mouths so the lead shaved nicely. And, yes, it did take a bit of force on the lever.

[Bookworm]

I always melt it off and keep for the tin. Used to get a lot of pipe with joints.

I had a pile of old plumbing; traps and joints galore. I took a hatchet and chopped all the joints out, rendered those separately.

I took those joints, rendered them and poured into ingots. Sent a sample to BNE, it came back as 5% Sn.

So, I got a few score pounds of pure (or very close to pure), and 35 pounds of 20-1. I plan to sell the 20-1 to a BPCR shooter.

I call that a good thing.

[pakmc]

I chamfer my cylinders so the whole ball goes into the cylinder(yes, I swede? them in, so no ring of lead.) I get a tighter seal that way. and kinda less chain fire.(and yes, I did have a chain fire the other day. my target had two holes after I pulled the trigger once.)

[mehavey]

You might want look things up, but chain fires are more & more being
seen as starting via flame intro under loose caps/through the nipple.

[dondiego]

You might want look things up, but chain fires are more & more being
seen as starting via flame intro under loose caps/through the nipple.

It has been shown to be repeatable and occurs from the front of the cylinder.

[dondiego]

You might want look things up, but chain fires are more & more being
seen as starting via flame intro under loose caps/through the nipple.

It has been shown to be repeatable and occurs from the front of the cylinder.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Are these guns/molds new to you?
Have you used other Lead for casting in the same molds when shooting these same guns? ...and not have difficulty in seating the cast RB?

If that is the case, that these guns are new to you, I would measure the RB as cast...and then measure a RB pulled from the cylinder...to find out how much difference there is. Maybe you need a slightly smaller RB mold to better function with your chamfered cylinder technique.

PS. I moved your thread to a better section, to maybe give you some more/better answers

[Conditor22]

Define "hard to get in to the cylinder."

Loading BP revolvers take a little effort because you are cutting a thin ring of lead off the ball

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?378866-Lead-hardness-pencil-testing-trick

[rodwha]

It has been shown to be repeatable and occurs from the front of the cylinder.

I haven’t seen anything definitive. My father had a chainfire while using felt wads, which should be impossible. But having a driving band should make it impossible to ignite from the front. It can’t go through lead (or wads). I’ve seen the idea that a trail is created when grains sit in the old residue but I have a very hard time believing that a grain of powder can cut through lead. If the chamber is out of round somewhere maybe as it would create an air pocket.

[Fly]

Chain fire, give up arguing, you will never win or lose. No one has ever proved one way or the other. I have had a few in my time.
I have read so many opinions to why & I do have my thoughts as to the cause but not going there.

Fly

[charlie b]

I have never had a chain fire so won't even try to speculate on the cause.

I also made sure that I had a full ring of lead shaved off when I loaded a ball. Heavy loads. And, I did not use a lube or wad. Caps were a tight fit to the nipples. The pistol was a kit Remington replica from back in the late 70's (Navy Arms??).

[rodwha]

Honestly I find it hard to believe either way, yet it happens, though not to me yet, but I don’t pinch my caps and usually shoot my bullets, and the caps fit snug so they don’t fall off either. The only chainfire I have witnessed was my father’s and with a wad I find it impossible that it could have come from the front as there’s a gap between the wad and ball.

[dondiego]

I haven’t seen anything definitive. My father had a chainfire while using felt wads, which should be impossible. But having a driving band should make it impossible to ignite from the front. It can’t go through lead (or wads). I’ve seen the idea that a trail is created when grains sit in the old residue but I have a very hard time believing that a grain of powder can cut through lead. If the chamber is out of round somewhere maybe as it would create an air pocket.

Look up the second article called "Shooting the Black Powder Revolver" by John L. Fuhring. I don't know how to add the link. Sorry.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Look up the second article called "Shooting the Black Powder Revolver" by John L. Fuhring. I don't know how to add the link. Sorry.
Here you go.

SHOOTING THE BLACK POWDER REVOLVER
© John L. Fuhring

Preventing chain firing
This is the 2nd of 8 articles

http://www.geojohn.org/BlackPowder/bps2.html

[rodwha]

I’ve seen threads where people have claimed to prove it come from the nipples. But this is the apparently the article I have a hard time buying. Why wouldn’t the dense heavy lead projectile push any powder grains deeper into the chamber instead of giving way to a much less dense substance? It just doesn’t stand to reason to my thinking, and in the one instance I was around a chainfire it would have had to have passed the ball and a wad, which again just seems impossible as there’d be a long gap between it would have to jump to reach the main powder charge.

I’m not saying I’m right and I’m not looking to argue. As I said it seems about impossible from either end without something like ill fitting caps or imperfections in the chamber.

[rbuck351]

I tried the plastic cap gun caps once which was enough. All 6 cyl went off at roughly the same time. I could hear a slight machine gun sound and I would bet all were fired from the nipples. I'm thinking a slightly loose or bent cap is what causes a lot of chain fires. A loose ball could easily do the same but it's hard to believe a properly seated ball could pass anything. I don't lube the ball after seating and the cap gun cap is the only time I have had a chain fire. I think a poorly seated cap could be dislodged by the blast from the fired chamber whether from the cap area or the front of the cyl.

[Fly]

ya, yea, yea. I saw a video were a guy left every other cap completely off fully charged cylinders & fired the other 3 with caps on with out a chain fire.
Go figure? As I said above no one will ever win this debate.
Fly

[KCSO]

Check and see what size balls will really fit in the cylinders, if you are trying to shoot say a 457 in a 451 chamber it will be hard to load. In my cap and ball guns I just use range lead with no problem but I just use balls a couple thou over the chamber mouth.

[dondiego]

I think that chain fires are caused at both ends but there sure is a whole lot more fire at the front of the cylinder!

[dondiego]

I’ve seen threads where people have claimed to prove it come from the nipples. But this is the apparently the article I have a hard time buying. Why wouldn’t the dense heavy lead projectile push any powder grains deeper into the chamber instead of giving way to a much less dense substance? It just doesn’t stand to reason to my thinking, and in the one instance I was around a chainfire it would have had to have passed the ball and a wad, which again just seems impossible as there’d be a long gap between it would have to jump to reach the main powder charge.

I’m not saying I’m right and I’m not looking to argue. As I said it seems about impossible from either end without something like ill fitting caps or imperfections in the chamber.

According to the article, the lead ball crushes the powder grains against the side of the cylinder leaving a fuse of sorts.

[rodwha]

Check and see what size balls will really fit in the cylinders, if you are trying to shoot say a 457 in a 451 chamber it will be hard to load. In my cap and ball guns I just use range lead with no problem but I just use balls a couple thou over the chamber mouth.

I seat .457” balls in my Fly reamed and chamfered .449” chambers quite easily. Same with my .456” bullets.

Thanks again Fly!

[rodwha]

According to the article, the lead ball crushes the powder grains against the side of the cylinder leaving a fuse of sorts.

But to do that it also has to engrave the lead, which is where I have a problem following. Lead is much harder than powder. I guess it’s one of those things I’d be like a Missourian and need to see it to believe it. Regardless it clearly does happen no matter how hard to believe it may be.

[Gtek]

I would think the best place to start is an accurate cylinder size then groove, stuffing a .457" into a .446" hole might be a little aggravating. In my experience the imports are all over the place with both but guessing sometimes works. For whatever the reason the cylinders are usually/always smaller then groove. Make the cylinder match the barrel, choose correct ball, close the barrel to cylinder gap down correctly, clean up timing and then go have fun. Yes the imports are less expensive and will make smoke, but if you really dive into them you will find and understand them as a kit gun.

[dondiego]

But to do that it also has to engrave the lead, which is where I have a problem following. Lead is much harder than powder. I guess it’s one of those things I’d be like a Missourian and need to see it to believe it. Regardless it clearly does happen no matter how hard to believe it may be.

Well, case lube is softer than brass but if I use too much on the neck of my case it crimps the brass cause there is no other place for it to go. Lead is softer.

[rodwha]

But the powder has a place to go...

[dondiego]

But the powder has a place to go...

So does the lube! The powder leaves a little trail and that is the fuse. Look, this has been proven and is repeatable.

[rodwha]

I’m still trying to grasp this. To my thinking something fragile compared to lead cannot win in that battle. But then when we consider a sphere it’s not exactly pushing like a flat based bullet. So maybe I can sort of get how a grain can get trapped and crushed. Seems far fetched, but then none of it seems all that easy. It’s clearly happening to some. I’d love to see it repeatedly done though.

What I’ve seen with people out to test it is nothing is provable and nothing is repeatable every time.

[Drm50]

To be sure of " lead" you are using I would get some known pure lead and cast some balls. If they load properly you know the flange lead is alloyed. Most of the old roofing lead is close to pure, some still is but some is alloyed with zinc.

[rbuck351]

In my case using plastic capgun caps, all 6 cyls went off. I'm thinking one would have to be very unlucky to have grains of powder stuck between the ball and the cyl in at least the 5 cyls not intentionally fired and to have them all go off from the front. I also use balls several thousands over cyl bore size which cuts off a fairly thick ring. I can see plastic caps being dislodged and fired by the blast as they leave the nipple and directing fire into the nipple. I can also see cyls firing from the front but all 6 cyls going off at once would have to have some very poor loading practices or very deliberate practices designed to cause a full chain fire. Using plastic caps is asking for a chain fire, hind sight being 20/20. I'm not planning on repeating the plastic cap thing to prove it's a bad plan. I don't believe the full chain fire with a one time use of plastic caps was a coincidence or that it was lit from the front.

[TheOutlawKid]

Trick to using plastic toy caps and roll caps is in how you use them. Best is to make your own cap hulls out of .005" thick sheet aluminum/brass/copper