250 Savage 99, Brass question

[Razor]

A friend has a takedown Savage 99 in .250
He fired 2 rounds
Both empties were VERY hard to remove.
Excuse the poor photo but notice the shoulder area...
The shoulder angle seems different..more rounded..
the line below the shoulder is a 'crease' ?
Indented on one side and protruding on the opposite.
Imagine cutting the case just below the shoulder, moving it .001" to one side and magically reattaching the pieces.
Do 'they' use 2-piece chamber reamers ???

Any thoughts ???

Razor
:castmine:
PS..accuracy is horrible..(imagine that).... Minute-of-trashcan-lid at 50 yds

[HeavyMetal]

My first thought is someone attempted to re chamber and did not finish?

Second thought is case seperation and some brass still in the gun??

In any event, and this will be easy since it's a take down, pull the barrel off and put a damn strong light in the chamber area and check with as strong a mgnifiying glass as you can find!

something is wrong keep looking until you figure it out!

[runfiverun]

looks like excessive head space there or your loads were sized waaay too much.
he has the gun put together properly right?
asirc taking these apart and putting them together frequently did cause a problem such as this.

[Razor]

Thanks for the comments Guys..
I haven't handled the gun myself.. Word-of-mouth and one of the fired rounds is the only info.
The ammo is new store bought stuff..
I did ask him if he was sure it was properly assembled. Of course, he said it was.
I'll tell him Monday to check the chamber for brass remnants

asirc taking these apart and putting them together frequently did cause a problem such as this.
Could mung/gunk somehow interfere with headspace upon reassembly ???

Razor
:castmine:

[HeavyMetal]

Yes just the slightest bit of gunk can cause trouble.

I have had two 99's but niether was a take down gun. I can't imagine it would function if not assymbled right but this is a case of "trust but verifiy" that it is indeed put together right!

I have had brass come out of a gun ( wrong case, wrong gun) that had fired and fireformed to the chamber. I'm thinking if this was just slightly of center the case would have just expanded to fill the chamber.

Because you are seeing a specific defect in a specific location, plus hard extraction, I'm still thinking a defect in the chamber that's actually holding the expanded case after firing!

Curious as all get out about this problem! Please keep us posted on what you find.

[Bret4207]

Yeah, get a good strong light and look in the chamber for a tiny ring of brass near the shoulder area. My bet is at one time a case separated and there's a tiny bit of brass stuck in the chamber. Could also be dried grease or dirt, but either way I'll bet a chambering reamer or even an oversize brush and some 3/0 steel wool might clean it up.

Of course all this is assuming my eyes aren't so bad I can't see the pics so good!

[Razor]

Got the Wife to work the camera..

[runfiverun]

my money is on the rifle not being screwed together fully.
well the front not twisted all the way.
but i am not sure of where the two halves joiin.

[Pepe Ray]

This is not due to improper assembly. There is a flaw of some kind in the chamber. Without further consideration I would not argue against the theory of a foreign piece of brass from a separation BUT. My money is on a sloppy reaming job.
Also, lay a straight edge on the walls or center line of that REloaded round and you'll need to look for a die set up problem also. Of course 7 decades haven't sharpened these peepers very much.
Pepe Ray

[C A Plater]

Looks like some hack tried to make an improved chamber of some kind and things went horribly wrong. The chamber looks off center from the neck and there appears to be a bulge on one side that would most definitely make things hard to extract. No way this is/was a factory job. It's new barrel time. Bummer.:(

[Bret4207]

Definitely not due to improperly assembling the rifle. The 99 barrel assy includes the full length of the chamber. No way this has anything to do with that. If you can't find a hunka brass embedded in the chamber then it could be either a sloppy attempt at a rechamber as was mentioned or someone had a case separation and used a crowbar to get it out. Darn shame as I'm not sure it can be salvaged. A sleeve for the chamber area might be your best option.

[runfiverun]

i am trying to visualise how you could stick a reamr in there and shift it off that much.
you are gonna have to pull the bbl and look at it i am thinking.
about the only way that could happen i am thinking is someone tried to do a home
wild cat job with a reamer they had on hand.
or they pulled or tried to pull this bbl at some time and got carried away with a vise.

[26Charlie]

It looks to me like the case neck is larger than .250 diameter - if the gun had been rebored to a wildcat 6.5mm/.250 and the chamber screwed up in the process. that would explain the trash-can lid accuracy with .250 ammo and the off-angle chamber shoulder both.

[bruce drake]

My opinion -and that is what it is, just an opinion- Is that someone got a scratch or gouge in their original chamber (perhaps due to try to get a blown case out) and then tried to clean the chamber area up with a quick insert of another caliber chamber reamer think he was just going to clean the walls up. Probably a 22-250 reamer which would match the chamber walls since the 250 Savage was the parent case of the 22-250, but the 22 caliber spud in the front allow the head of the reamer to wobble thus creating the bulge in the front of the cartridge by the shoulder area. The "Gunsmith" then fired it a few times, didn't like the result and then sold the rifle off without telling any one of the new "custom chambering"

Prognosis. Rebarrel. That chamber is toast.

Just my opinion, but then again, I'm not often called in to solve cold cases either.

Bruce

[Razor]

Update:
Talked to my buddy today...
He did the muzzle test...loaded round, bullet first in the muzzle...it's a .250
He has been unable to get the rifle apart..
Several attempts and the barrel still wont budge..
He will inspect the chamber for foreign matter, tonight.
He is going to have the local gunsmith inspect it in a "week or two"

Razor

[gzig5]

What is the diameter of the neck on the fired case vs. the loaded round? The fired case looks significantly larger, more so than would be normal. It looks like someone ran a 300 Savage reamer in the chamber and the front of a case seperated up in the shoulder area. Is there any evidence of a barrel bulge over the chamber?

[Razor]

Fired case neck diameter is .287
Loaded round is .2805
I will enquire about evidence of barrel/chamber bulge.

Thanks

Razor

[Cap'n Morgan]

Looks as if someone tried to remove a stuck/separated case with a drill, and it decided to wander a bit...

[runfiverun]

i have been thinking about this and i think that you may have a 300 savage relined to 250. and it has gone down hill from there

[MtGun44]

The most likely affordable fix is to have it rebored to .300 Savage.

The folks here probably know a reborer that they can recommend, as this is
specialized work, but I have read that with a good man doing the work
you can do miracles to save an old rifle.

Bill

[Bret4207]

The most likely affordable fix is to have it rebored to .300 Savage.

The folks here probably know a reborer that they can recommend, as this is
specialized work, but I have read that with a good man doing the work
you can do miracles to save an old rifle.

Bill

For the chamber thats the fix. Next problem will be finding a spool for the magazine in 300 Sav. As truly wonderful as the spool mag is, they really work best with the correct spool. The 300 may feed fine, you'd have to try it. The good news is the 300 spool is on Ebay quite often and not too much money. Now, if you were looking for a 25-35 or 32-40.....$$$$$$$$$$$$

[HeavyMetal]

The 250 case is real close to the 300 so it should work with minimal effort.

I once got my 308 to feed 7.62x39 rounds flawlessly! So the spools can be very forgiving in some case's.

[Razor]

'Nother update...
Well, my buddy got the word from the gunsmith....
Looks like Someone had brass separation in the chamber.
Had chucked something up in a drill motor and rooted it out...Unfortunately, it wasn't
lined up real good...judging from the toolmarks.
suggestion was to rechamber to .250-3000 Ackley Improved...

[Bret4207]

If, and thats a big IF, the Ackley chamber will clean the marks up then it should work. The caveats are- if it's a square bolt (at the rear of the bolt- is it rounded or square?) then you might get stress cracks, but that happens even with factory loads. #2- The Ackley may feed fine, or it might not, chances are good it'll be okay.

The Ackleys tend to be okay pressure-wise on the actions as the case taper is removed. This tends to give less back thrust than the original tapered case. DO NOT consider this a 25-'06! You may gain a few FPS through judicious handloading, but the older 99 actions should be treated with the respect they deserve. Now if you have a later action with the better metal and improvements then you can goose it a little. What serial number range is this in? What barrel length? If it's an newer (post 30's-40's) model with a 22" barrel you should be able to push a 100 gr bullet at 2900 or close to it with decent brass life. The newer powders help with this. A good 100 gr bullet out of the 250, Ackley or original, will handle 95% of your eastern type deer shooting. It won't be a beanfield rifle, but it'll do fine. My son has a Ruger UL in standard 250 with 4 one shot deer and 1 2-shot bear kills to it's record with the Nosler Partition 100 gr at close to 3K.

[gzig5]

Going to an Ackley would probably require modification of the magazine spool wouldn't it? Also, I believe that the correct way to rechamber to an Ackley requires that the barrel be set back one thread, at least in a bolt gun it does. Since he would have to set back a thread anyway, why not setback and just rechamber in the original caliber? Should be the least amount of work as long as the for end can be made to work, which is a problem in either case.

Greg

[Razor]

It has been externally refinished, so whatever collector value there might have been, is pretty well shot.
He's also not a rabid hunting enthusiast either.
He's more a gun accumulator rather than a collector..
Did I mention he's cheap ! ??
Sounds like he'd prefer to go the cheapest route to get it shootable..