first 357 deer

[T-Bird]

bought a Remlin 1894C last year intending to use it for deer on the high side and cans on the low side. Got a good 1400fps Lee 358158 load for everything but deer and bought some Cast performance 180 wfngc for deer. I push them with 13 gr H110 for 1550ish fps. I didn't buy a 180 gr mold because I don't anticipate shooting many 180 gr boolits, so I figured a box of 100 would last a while after I got a load worked up. I was able to collect a large doe Tues afternoon at about 65 yds shooting from a ground blind. I waited till she was full broadside so I could get good shot placement. There were thick planted pines close by that she was probably gonna run into and I didn't want a long tracking job in that environment if I could avoid it.I hit her right in the boiler room and got complete penetration. She ran about 50 yds and piled up dead after a run that lasted about 3 seconds. The exit hole was caliber size as I feared it would be. These boolits are heat treated. Blood leakage was minimal in fact, I never found a drop, but the boolit killed well and fast. I have mixed emotions about this. The boolit performed very well in the killing dept, but I really like a blood trail. They don't always fall in 50 yds even when well hit and had she run much farther she would have been hard to recover. I may break down and buy a mold for a similar boolit and cast my own out of softer alloy, I'll ponder it.

[nagantguy]

Love it when a plan comes together! Great work; and yes in my experience most commercial “hard cast” don’t expand most of the time and caliber in and out sized holes don’t leak much if at all; hollow point molds from Miha and other makers have changed my hunting game, or cast your own wide flat nose and play with alloy till you find what works at your speeds from your rifle- no blood trail can be a problem but you still recovered your deer; also when I hunt in a nasty pine/ cedar swamp north of home I like the anchor shot and try and break both both front shoulders- has worked well on northern MI black bear- as they tend not to bleed much anyhow and tracking a wounded one can get -spicy !

[cwlongshot]

I have used same ir simular bullets with exact same results. I also bought a mold.

But last spring a friend on here was looking for 348 bullets to try before buying a mold and came across GT Bullets. They offer as cast bullets and they have a large selection. They just started to offer different hardnesses. IIRC they advertise most @ 12BHN

But we discovered a 165 & 185 HP with a wfn profile. Esp the 185. He shot them into his wet magazine bullet box are varying velocities and at 50 yards. He discovered that the magic number was 1250/1300 fps impact vel. Now this media is tougher then an animal Would be. How much so is the question but sufi e to say a couple Hundred fos should t be a issue. SO armed with that a 165g @ 1650 and a 185@ 1450 are excellent candidates!

I have the 165’s powder coated and sized to .360 in my 8” Cold recolver now waiting on an opportunity. They clock almost 1400 fps and shoot 2/3” @ 50 off hand me shooting.

Give them a look before ya go with a mold.

CW

[rking22]

Congratulations on a good hunt and good shot. Yep, I own several molds for low volume use due to every commercial bullet being “hard”. Now some makers are offering softer bullets. I would still look at getting a mold, then you are fully in control and will never run out of your chosen bullet.

[bmortell]

I keep reading posts from this years hunting season of everyone saying there not getting a blood trail, some kind of epidemic going on, deer must be evolving for extra clotting factor or something lol

[gumbo333]

Look around at the different commercial bullet casters with boolits for sale. Some offer softer boolits, 10 to 12 BHN, some are pretty hard at 22 BHN. There are a lot of company's.

[White Oak]

Most Straight across hits from ground level require the body cavity to fill to the wound before it bleeds. When I hunt from the ground with cast bullets I try to break them down with a shoulder shot. My alloy and bullets have also evolved with each season. They have gotten softer and wider. Lung shot deer can travel a pretty good distance with a caliber sized .358 .430 hole thru and thru.
I shot a nice sized doe this season with my .44 mag revolver thru both shoulders at 30 yards 1,350 muzzle velocity 16/1 alloy. She went 35-40 yards plowing the ground with her nose.

[T-Bird]

Yeah, I have no doubt that the thorax filled with blood as I did have side to side penetration about half way up to the spine, but I think a larger exit would have bled more to the outside. I've killed several deer like that in the last few years with other rifles and my own cast. I wanted to use this gun because it's so handy and I've been told how effective the 357 can be for deer and what I've read is right. As I'm older, I like being in a blind- it's hard to fall out of:). A quarter sized exit tends to leak- usually a lot. this hole was caliber sized. In all honesty though, I've never had a faster kill with any other gun that the shot didn't hit near the CNS and drop them where they stand.

[NSB]

I've killed somewhere over sixty deer with .357mag/max bullets to date. Most never made it past fifty yards. Also, most hit through the lungs at mid-level didn't bleed a whole lot. I have yet to lose even one deer shot with that caliber. I've shot three already this year and all dropped within that fifty yard zone and were very easy to find. I can't see any need to shoot the shoulders and lose the meat. I've been using handguns for over forty years and recently gotten a couple of mag and max rifles to use also. The results are about the same with either. Very effective on deer sized game.

[JSH]

I would guess two or three boxes of “custom” bullets would pay for a mold? I imagine NOE will be having a couple of sales between now and the first of the year.

Get your own mold and run with an alloy you mix up. That is pretty much what I did with my Marlin. For some reason mine will shoot the silly little Lee truncates nose 120. An it shoots two WFN designs for the Marlin from group buys years back. Anything in between is terribe for some reason.

Mine left about nickel size exit holes. Shots were from 50-180 yards never recovered a bullet.

[reloader28]

Nice job.
My brothers rifle shoots the Lee RF. Comes out about 165gr and shoots good at 1800fps in his rifle. BHN16
He shot a quartering away running doe at about 50yds and she went about 40 more yds. Complete pass thru.
By far and away the worst blood shot animal I've ever seen when it was skinned. The entire side and shoulder was red jelly.

[725]

O' so many good choices available. Mostly, they all work and your preferences certainly guide your choices. I have a fondness for the 358627. Cast softer with my alloy, they generally come in at around 215 grains and has been a great hunter. Works super in my 6" Blackhawk, and pretty good in a .357 max single shot rifle.

[cwlongshot]

251680


I like those long 627’s too!! They do shoot well in my Maxi!

[T-Bird]

I appreciate all the info guys. I was looking at Accurate molds site, they have a 180 gr gc design that looks good it's called a 36 180UG looks like a suitable replacement for the Cast Performance 180 boolit. As I said, that boolit worked well and killed rapidly but I would like some expansion (plus I really like making my own). Seeing the way this cal worked at the distances I usually kill deer, I'm wondering why I don't just sell all my other guns!:-D But I guess we all know the answer to that!

[T-Bird]

Reloader 28 does your brother shoot the Lee 158 RF w/o gc at 1800 fps?

[cwlongshot]

If properly powder coated. A GC isnt required at hand gun attainable velocities.

CW

[reloader28]

T-Bird I'm not a fan of bevel base so I cut that out of the mold with a knife for a plain base and I put a plain base gas check on it.
It has a bit of a big chamber and that was before I got a .360 die. Have not tested it since but I'm guessing at that speed its still needed, I dont know.
Its a pretty good thumper of a load though

[Tom W.]

But smile! The deer was dead with one shot and
you found it easily......

[smkummer]

No real sure outcome on how a deer will react when shot. The next deer you shoot in that same spot will react differently. Stories of deer shot with a 22-250 55 grain dropping in their tracks and a 150 grain 30-06 shot deer that runs almost 100 yards before dropping. 24-27 caliber jacketed bullets are performing well when they expand to 35 caliber of which you started out leaving the barrel. I know this may not be popular on a cast bullet site but the easy way to produce soft expanding ammunition that would not lead your barrel at the velocity you desire is a jacketed soft or hollow point.

[T-Bird]

smkummer, I agree with your statement concerning the variablity of results with different animals. I began hunting deer in 1970 and have experienced it all. I've killed lot of deer with 44/45 cal semi wadcutter style boolits and I got good blood usually with those. I get good blood with my 35 Rem and the RCBS 35-200gr fp. I shoot it about 1750fps and use my coww alloy. I think I can do that with 357. And Tom W - I did smile!:-D

[smkummer]

I am loading lyman’s 358430 195 grain for my 1894C at about 1100 FPS (38 special load with 2400 from lyman’s 45th edition) that is water dropped and wonderfully accurate in my micro groove marlin. I know I can increase the velocity to what would be a reduced velocity 35 Remington load with a 357 case. That blunt round nose I feel would smack like a SWC. Maybe someone else would chime in on how effective it is on deer in either caliber. I of course would not expect any expansion since water quenched.

[cwlongshot]

I wouldnt choose a RN hard bullet for use on big game. No it wont “smack” like a swc will.

Cheapest was in is actually a darn fine bullet. Its a LEE 358-158. 20$ /25$ and you have a two cav.

CW

[Ramjet-SS]

I’ve said and agree shot placement first. Deer not running is a simple solution that is CNS placement. But more reliable is the heart shot deer do not travel far. Tracking is more than just blood trailing it’s “tracking”. Heart shot is distinct reaction and any boolit will work. A good WFN and 25-75 yard death sprint is no big deal. Great job on harvesting that deer a good shot a good caliber and you have meat.

Here is an example my son shot a little fork horn Saturday from tree stand he was shooting a 139 grain Hornady bullet in a 7x57 and the deer was 75 yards he took off the top of the heart and wreaked havoc with the lungs, the bullet exited with a good size hole. Open hardwoods so he saw the deer go down it still ran with no plumbing from the heart left 40 yards and piled up. Now when he hit that deer it dropped jumped back up and did the sprint. When hit hit the ground after the dash it was lights out. Be realistic a 50 yard death dash is not unusual anyone who has shot an elk will tell the death dash can be much longer. Anyone who has shot a number of deer with a variety of weapons will tell you they just react differently but even without a heart can still get 50 yards on the blood in the their plumbing. No big deal keep shooting well and don’t over think this. Tinker if you must but just make sure of accuracy and hitting where you are supposed to.

[T-Bird]

I concur with you on the death dash from a heart shot- seen it a lot. That's what this one did. I agree that the times they drop like a rock, the CNS has been shocked- that can even be done with a high shoulder shot as the spine passes behind the shoulder blades. And of course I'm gonna tinker- I can't help it!:-D

[Ateam]

Just never know what they are going to do when hit. I shot a nice 10pt this year with a 300win mag 178 eldx @2950. Took off the top of the heart, 3/4ish exit, tracking was easy as we had snow, but not alot of blood. The sucker still ran 100+y. I actually got worried about 90y in and went back to the hit sight and looked at the hair to confirm the shot placement was ok, and give him time to die if it wasn't. After a thermos of coffee I cut the trail and found him another 30y past where I broke off. Just wasn't ready to die yet, no matter what I hit him with.

I know 300wm is way overkill for white tail, but it is so darned accurate it is hard to leave at home.

[Kylongrifle32]

Congratulations on the deer and the recovery. Last weekend I shot my first buck with a handgun using a Contender 44mag with a NOE 430-265 HP. Then yesterday I shot a doe with a Taylor Bros mini Sharps in 38-55 using a NOE 379-235 WFN. Both these deer went 50 yards and dropped with out a drop of blood to follow. The alloy I was using was hard (95% lead 5% antimony ) so I have some experimenting to do over the summer to get a better performing alloy mix. But this experience did not detour me from using cast boolits. I'm hooked.

[T-Bird]

I ordered a 4 cav 180gr mold from Accurate. It looks to be close to the cast performance 180 wfn in profile, meplat etc. Figured for just a little more money, might as well get a 4 hole. I'll try'em softer.

[Cary Gunn]

T-Bird,

Like you, I'd be concerned about the lack of a blood trail, no matter how quick the kill. A deer down in heavy brush can be hell to find without the red juice to point the way.

I presume you'll be pouring a somewhat softer alloy into that new Accurate mold. Let us know how things go. I'd be interested to know if a softer bullet produces a better blood-trail.

Happy trails, and keep 'em pointin' straight,

-- Cary Gunn --

[T-Bird]

that's the idea anyway Cary

[T-Bird]

Got my mold today. I chose the 36-180UG. Sho is purdy! Not near the 3 weeks they said it would take to get here. Now the fun starts.

[T-Bird]

first trip to the range, looked good in the accuracy dept (real good). Will try another trip to be sure the results are repeatable. Then I'll report.

[T-Bird]

Went back today. Loaded the Accurate boolit with 13.5 gr H110 mag primer 1.58 oal case trimmed to 1.28. I used Hi-tec coating. Shot 5 into 1in at 50yds. I didn't know I was that good.:grin: It's amazing how much better you are when you find a load that really works!

[sonoransixgun]

Awesome work! Must feel real good....watch out deer!

[T-Bird]

You Betcha! (In my best northern plains accent:grin:)