proiritizing accuracy VS more effective alloy/speed

[bmortell]

what do you make your goal when developing your hunting loads for deer size game. I feel like many go for accuracy caring about a 1" group then in reality there gonna shoot a broadside deer at crossbow distance.

obviously accuracy is important but I feel once you get say a <3" group at deer distance you should just pick whatever would be the most effective within that 3" constraint.

say for example Jim bob wants to hunt deer with a 30-06 and he cant see more than 100yds in the woods. and options were

option 1. 170gr flatpoint around 15 hardness at 1600mv, shoots 1 moa but unlikely to expand, mild damage

option 2. 220gr flatpoint around 10 hardness at 2000mv, shoots 3 moa but likely to expand, good damage

and Im totally not Jim bob [smilie=1:

[hc18flyer]

I think you meant to reverse the velocity? I would likely be in the middle of the options. Most of my shots are within 50 yards, 100+ being the outside.
hc18flyer

[bmortell]

no its correct, I was referring to how its fairly easy to get good accuracy with "pistol powders" at mild speeds, compared to more maxing out what you can do with a 10 twist and soft lead. but regardless the options were chosen to minimize grey area

[Larry Gibson]

My recommendation is/has been to load a good cast bullet of correct alloy for the purpose (in the 30-06 either bullet would do.... I have used both) and load it with medium to slow burning powders to the highest velocity that gives "acceptable accuracy" (the 3" figure is good though I generally use 4") at the maximum range the game will be shot at.

Voted #2 as it comes closest to my own choice.

[rking22]

#2 for me as well, #1 would work but #2 is more forgiving. This 1 MOA thing is overdone with deer hunting in mind. Chose a bullet and alloy that fits the need and get it to shoot consistently.

[white eagle]

3-4" accuracy isn't worth a hoot shooting though a 1"hole in the brush
but you can use your 3-4 incher to clear the brush first

[megasupermagnum]

I do not hunt with centerfire rifles, at all. The only hunting gun I own that is capable of sub 2" groups at 100 yards is a TC impact modern muzzleloader. So other than that case, I'll take all the accuracy I can get.

If I were to ever hunt with my rifles, I would definitely want more than 100 yard capability, else what would be the point? Maybe an open sighted rifle, but then again, the open sights limit you to where you need all the accuracy you can get again.

[Rcmaveric]

I always tune for accuracy first. I would rather have a bullet go where I want. If expansion was questionable you can always go for head or neck shot where expansion isnt as critical.

Second school of thought is to pick a bullet diameter where expansion isnt critical.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Todd N.]

I don't hunt deer anymore, but #1 priority for my hunting is accuracy. Bullet choice can vary depending on terrain or region, speed is less important, but my first choice for any cartridge is the most accurate one.

Except when I hunt with a .45-70. I use 1 and only 1 load for hunting: a 405 gr RNFP at 11-12 BHN. It's big, accurate at short or long range, and decisive on game. I only ever carry 2 when I go afield. Referring to Rcmaveric's comment, because it's so big I don't care about expansion.

As for "degree" of accuracy, the guy who diligently practices to get 1" groups is more likely to put his bullet EXACTLY where it should go, even if it's a broadside shot. This results in a more humane, ethical kill. Just because it's a broadside shot means nothing- an ethical hunter must still put his bullet in the right place.

[rking22]

Original post specified he could not see beyond 100 yards, so never would shoot beyond 100. Load 2 holds 3 inches at said 100 yards. Since we are taking the discussion beyond the stated question. If I can get .050 moa group with a Lino bore riding round nose and “only” 1.5 moa with a 50/50 flat nose at 25% more velocity then I should hunt deer with the limo. Just in case I want to try a pick thru a one inch hole in brush, or I might want to take a poke at one from 300yards??
If I have 2 basically equal loads and one shoot 1/2 the group the yep, accuracy trumps. Real life, I had a 243 many years ago that put 85bthp into 1/2 moa and I shot a deer with it. Bad idea, would have worked on a head shot but I don’t do that. That same rifle put 100gr solid bases into 1 1/2 inch groups, killed with authority and left a blood trail, generally very short one.Minor differences in accuracy dose not trump bullet performance in the real world. None of us shoot moa groups in the field at unknown distances. Personally I hunt with vintage guns and open sights. My range is limited by eyesight not group size, and I hold for a perfect shot always. The center of a 3 inch group is the same place as a 1 inch group. Inferring that working up a 1 inch group on the bench is an indicator of hunting shot diligence is bad logic. My opinion, but that’s what he asked for.

[MT Gianni]

#1 if you can guarantee a shot in the ear hole every time. #2 in all other instances.

[Tripplebeards]

I voted number two because I tried number one last year and don’t like trailing deer over 100 yards with zero blood trails with broadside double longshots. I want as much energy transfer and damage as possible to drop the animal where it stands. I’ll sacrifice some bloodshot meat all day long to watch my animal drop at the shot.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd go along with #2 for hunting.
Hunting at 100-ish yards, or less, taking a 'boiler room' shot,
3" accuracy is fine, and #2 should be able to drop anything in North America.


I've killed a couple of these small Texas Hill Country deer with a .30-06 170 gr. GCRN, going about 17-1800,
which gets it to a little less horsepower than a full house .30-30.
Solid hits at 75 & 90 yards, they both died instantly,
but I wouldn't be comfortable any farther than that with a slow 170gr..

It worked for me, but I wouldn't recommend it for someone with any sort of vision issues, and didn't practice a lot.

[canuck4570]

I keep it simple
moderate velocity good precision and hollow point
so high or low velocity does not matter
bullet always expand

[WinchesterM1]

I got my 308 to 2400 FPS with 3/4” groups at 100 yards with the Lee 150 fn (1/12 twist in a TC compass). My alloy was around 11-12bhn with 3%tin(I have ALOT of tin...more than 500lbs) and I can tell you that it is a Very effective round out to 150-200 we harvested 7 deer this year with it out to 200 with this load and everyone was a drop, one ran less then 20 yards how? I do not know both shoulders were busted the heart was mush and her lungs were mush. I killed a 300lb doe with it this year which I got 117lbs of meat from(boneless) and it did the job

This is the exit hole from 100 yards I could have pushed a golf ball through without touching the sides

251563

251565
Yes that’s my Pinky and circled in red is my 4 round group(the 5th round was a flyer my rifle slid off the rest) at 110 yards

And this is the expanded boolit after hitting a water jug at 100 yards the jug was turned long ways the boolit only lost 11 grn of weight it measured .660”
251566

[dverna]

Any good jacketed bullet will give both accuracy and reliable expansion over a wider range of velocities. So much easier than getting a cast bullet that does both. But I do not hunt a lot, so saving a couple of dollars a year makes the use of cast bullets moot for me.

My typical range is under 150 yards but I get shots to 275 yards so need/want to be able to cover the longer range opportunities.

I am too ignorant and lazy to find the right alloy for a cast bullet that will cover ranges of 50-300 yards with both accuracy and expansion.

In your example, option 2 makes sense to me for 100 yards. Sure hope your buddy does not get a 250 yard shot on a 12 point buck along a power line. His 3 MOA group is likely to be a lot worse...cast bullet MOA performance is not as linear as it is with jacketed. Even if he gets the range and drop right, the chance of wounding/missing goes up.

[444ttd]

i like about 10 coww: .5 tin or about 12bhn going roughly 1600-1700fps(this is for my 444 marlin and my 35/30). i also have a 30-40 krag that goes 1900fps(165gr ranch dog at 12 bhn). they kill deer, so i'm happy.

[reloader28]

I didnt vote because I think both would work.
I'm actually right in the middle of both your loads... sorry...Jim Bobs loads. I'm using a 185gr RCBS SP 11BHN alloy water dropped for 16-17BHN.
Then I heat treated the upper half back soft again with a 1/16" hollow point 1/8" deep and run it at about 2000fps and 1 1/2" @ 100yds.
The wife used it on her last deer and it worked awesome.

[sixshot]

1" groups at 100 yds are nice but sure not needed on deer size game at the expense of expansion in 30 caliber. Use the correct alloy & do it with 3" groups out to 100 yds & you'll always eat backstraps. It's pretty simple, don't over think this.

Dick