Interesting outing at the range today.

[tazman]

I spent a couple of hours at the indoor range today with three of my 22LR handguns and three different kinds of ammunition.
I was intending to simply work on my trigger control since that is my worst weakness(holding steady being a close second).
The handguns I had with me were a S&W 34 with a 4 inch barrel, a Ruger Mark II with the slab sided target barrel in stainless, and a S&W 22A target pistol.
The ammunition I was using was Winchester M22, Federal HV Match, and Remington Thunderbolts (newly purchased box).

I started off with the Winchester M22. The accuracy was poor to average in all the guns with the Ruger being slightly more accurate.

Next up was the Federal HV Match. This ammunition gave very good accuracy in all three guns with the Ruger again, being slightly more accurate.

Then I tried the Thunderbolts. I only fired these in the Ruger and the 22A. I wasn't expecting much since my results with Thunderbolts, previously, has always been mediocre at best and quite often poor.
Both pistols shot outstanding with the Thunderbolts Tighter groups than the Federal match by quite a margin. With this ammunition, the S&W 22A was really outstanding. Significantly better than the Ruger Mark II and gave the best groups I had fired all afternoon. I am talking a group 1.5 inches wide and about 2 inches tall at 10 yards, offhand without any rest. For me, that is superb. It is as good as I have ever done without a rest.

I have never had this kind of success with Thunderbolts in any of my 22 handguns before. This particular box was purchased about 2 months ago. All the rest I have used was purchased years ago.
They were a tighter fit in the chambers than I ever remember before. It seemed the projectile was a bit larger in diameter than before.
Has Remington upped their quality with the Thunderbolts recently or was this just a one off?

[Petrol & Powder]

THE most significant step one can take to achieving better accuracy in a 22 rimfire, is to find the load the gun likes. Sometimes that means even finding the particular LOT of ammunition from a particular brand and type of ammunition.

So while Remington quality probably hasn't taken a great overall leap forward, you may have found a particular lot of Thunderbolts that your pistol(s) like.

[Black Prince]

I have also had the same excellent results in accuracy using Thunderbolts recently. So I bought a case of 5000 rounds from Natchez Shoters Supply which had them on sale.

[GBertolet]

I suspect that promotional ammo, such as Thunderbolts, are from rejected lots of the manufacturer's premium ammo. It doesn't necessarily mean their junk though. Velocities could be slightly less or more than what they want, as well as poor accuracy, high shot to shot velocity variation, or too many misfires. Any one or combination of these reasons, or others. Sometimes you get a good batch, giving decent accuracy, sometimes you don't. Apparently this time you got a good batch.

[tazman]

My biggest problem is I don't remember where I bought this box so I can't go back and see if more of the same lot are there.
I also put the ammo into a small transport box and threw the original box away. I can't even find out which lot they are from.
Previous experience told me the Thunderbolts would not perform like this.

[Black Prince]

The GOOD NEWS is that for an old codger, you are doing some fine shooting and I'll bet you can do that with any good ammo. :)

[Drm50]

I've got a couple cases of Thunder Bolts, a couple of Cyclones both from way before Obama. This ammo is in bricks not bulk pack. Both shoot decent. Maybe not match ammo but dependable and accurate enough to pop a squirrel in the head at 100'. The Rem Subsonics of same period were very accurate. I shot up a lot of them in my basement at 36'. I pre sight 22s in basement off a rest with Subsonics. Many guns will litterally shoot them in one hole at 36'. The only pre panic ammo that I felt was junk was Win Wildcats. I bought thousands of rounds of 22 ammo at auctions and store closings from early 90s up to the panic. It's stored in 20mm ammo cans and as far as I can tell is as good as new.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I also went to the range yesterday and shot 22's. My recently acquired Ruger Mk II SS target, and my old Marlin model 80DL that I gave 25 bucks for, 50+ years ago. I was shooting the Aguila "Super Extra". I had a great time in the beautiful weather, and shot ok, but not as good as I have. Both firearms are much more accurate than I am.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

[steve urquell]

I've neen a little leary of Remington ammo after getting several boxes of Yellowjackets on sale and having a good 2/3 of the brass split on firing. Several different firearms split the brass and none of my other .22 brands have ever done that.

[1066]

That's not bad shooting - Have you any idea what any of these pistols are capable of when shot from something like a Ransom rest or even a good solid sandbagged position? I think there may other factors at play here, maybe different velocity etc. and how different types of ammunition suit your style of shooting.

I'm thinking that 10 yards offhand would be difficult to tell good from bad without carefully measuring a lot of groups, taking into account the associated wobble, trigger and sighting errors. Something like the Ruger, shooting good quality match ammunition at 10 yards from a rest should produce a group of, at a guess, 1/2" or less. Shooting fairly mediocre bulk ammunition I would expect the group size to about double to 1"or so at 10 yards.

[tazman]

That's not bad shooting - Have you any idea what any of these pistols are capable of when shot from something like a Ransom rest or even a good solid sandbagged position? I think there may other factors at play here, maybe different velocity etc. and how different types of ammunition suit your style of shooting.

I'm thinking that 10 yards offhand would be difficult to tell good from bad without carefully measuring a lot of groups, taking into account the associated wobble, trigger and sighting errors. Something like the Ruger, shooting good quality match ammunition at 10 yards from a rest should produce a group of, at a guess, 1/2" or less. Shooting fairly mediocre bulk ammunition I would expect the group size to about double to 1"or so at 10 yards.

I have fired many different types/brands of ammo through these pistols during the years I have had them. The previous times I shot Thunderbolts in these pistols, the groups were much larger. That's why these results surprised me.
I fired both the Ruger and the S&W from a rest using a scope at the 12 yards a couple of years ago. They both shoot dime sized groups with match ammo.

The groups I fired using the M22 Winchester ammo were nearly 3.5 inches. The groups with the Federal HV Match were about 2.5 inches. This group size is about what I do on a good day with good ammo on a regular basis.
I expected the Thunderbolts to do about the same as the M22 did.
The only ammo I have used that gave me the really good group size was Norma Match ammo. It consistently gives me really good groups in all my handguns and rifles.

During the shortage, I purchased a bunch of lower quality ammo for practice and plinking because that was all I could find at the time. Now, I can pretty much get whatever I want.

[ShooterAZ]

One of the great things about 22's is that there's lots of ammo out there now to try. I recently discovered Aguila Pistol Match Competition. It shoots like a house-a-fire from my Marvel 1911 Conversion. I had a bunch of Thunderduds that I gave away to friends during the great 22LR shortage.

[tazman]

I haven't run across any Aguila Pistol Match. I have seen their rifle match.
I will keep a lookout for that.

[ShooterAZ]

I got mine at Sportsman's Warehouse. It also shoots surprisingly well in my Single Six.

[Jack Stanley]

It's good to hear that somebody got good accuracy with them . My last experiences with them was poor to worse than poor .

Jack

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I've been getting ads from Midway for Rem. Thunderbolts offered at $14.99 per 500.

[tazman]

That's a good price. I still have a bunch of cheap 22lr to burn through before I buy any more though.
I was just curious if anyone else had recently experienced an improvement in the Thunderbolt ammunition.

[onelight]

That is an interesting range report my experience with thunderbolts is similar , I gave the last few boxes away I was so disappointed in them . Hard to load and a lot of leading in a single six and a Bearcat.
I hope they have the problems fixed .
I likes me some cheap ammo that works .:-D

[uscra112]

I suspect that promotional ammo, such as Thunderbolts, are from rejected lots of the manufacturer's premium ammo. It doesn't necessarily mean their junk though. Velocities could be slightly less or more than what they want, as well as poor accuracy, high shot to shot velocity variation, or too many misfires. Any one or combination of these reasons, or others. Sometimes you get a good batch, giving decent accuracy, sometimes you don't. Apparently this time you got a good batch.

High volume production isn't qualified that way. You either keep the process parameters under tight control, which is slow and expensive, or you slack off and run the machines at top speed. Either way you ship everything that comes out of the process.

It is possible to get a lot of cheap ammo that shoots well, but it's only luck. Probably run right after the line had been subjected to a maintenance tuneup. After a month or so the uniformity will fall off, and they won't care because stopping and tuning up again costs money.

Five years ago, (egad is it that long?) I did a lengthy study of how commodity ammo could be improved by swaging it in a Waltz tool. Thunderbolt was one which did improve statistically, but I attributed that to the fact that, out of the box, bullet diameter variance was as much as .003" in any given brick. Swaging brought all the bullets to a uniform .2250", so it fit the chamber of the test gun better.

In my study, it became apparent that the T-bolt lots that I had used bullets coming from three different machines, which were not adjusted alike. These had to have been mixed together before going to the assembly stage. This would never happen when making competition-grade ammo.

[mfraser264]

Watch Midway, just bought a bunch as they had free shipping too.

[uscra112]

That's a good price. I still have a bunch of cheap 22lr to burn through before I buy any more though.
I was just curious if anyone else had recently experienced an improvement in the Thunderbolt ammunition.

I really should buy a new brick of T-bolt and run the same evaluation on it. What I was testing was bought when Bubba was Prexy. Thing is, I've still got so much ammo left over from that test that another brick of anything would be an excessive surfeit of redundancy, what with both the shootin' grandsons now being in college in Texas.