Light loads causing difficult to open bolt? First time out with Ross 1905E

[Peregrine]

Good Morning Fellas,
I encountered something I haven't experience before while shooting and I thought i'd share and see if y'all have ever encountered something similar or have some insight.
I picked up a Ross model 1905E in .303 British and loaded up some of my cast for them. boolit is a NOE 311-180-RF (K31), i've got them sized to .314 which is exactly the groove diameter, it's what i've got available so I decided to see if it would work. I've got them above 11.5gr of Red Dot and a CCI #34 primer.

Upon firing the bolt was very hard to open, had to bring the rifle down and hit it pretty hard with the edge of my hand. These rifles are a bit infamous for lacking primary extraction, but they definitely shouldn't be having this trouble.

Upon examining the brass the primer was quite noticeably protruding. Definitely not flattened in the slightest, very much rounded. I decided to fire 4 more, similar results although the degree of protrusion varied as did the difficulty in opening the bolt, although a very firm hit was required in all cases. I measured the protrusion to be over .010" from flush on a couple of the pieces. Some pictures are included for your consideration.


https://imgur.com/JHvXN1E.jpg


https://imgur.com/L86Ghon.jpg


https://imgur.com/E3ZqL1K.jpg



Thoughts?
I'm leaning towards being far from a dangerous pressure situation, in fact the opposite being the problem and increasing my charge of Red Dot by a grain to see what happens. But i'm also curious if there's something else that could have caused the primer protrusion and how exactly it would lead to the bolt being so hard to open before I proceed.
Or just if anyone has experienced similar on any other rifle.

Maybe the magnum power primer contributed? I've standardized on the CCI #34 for everything I load.


Of slight interest you can also see how the shape of the shoulder has changed after firing. I doubt that's related, and it's typical for these particular rifles but I guess i'm going to neck size from here on out.

https://imgur.com/XL85b8v.jpg

[bmortell]

that's normal for low pressure, everythime you fire the primer backs out because that's where the pressure starts, shoves primer back and case forward kinda wedges like that, then normally the case would make even more pressure and send the case back over the primer seating it flat again. theres a thread on what size drill bit you can drill the flash hole with to make it not happen. ill add it if I can find it

you can google to it, cast boolits is drilling out flash holes dangerous

[john.k]

I had increasingly difficult extraction with a Ross 303 and light loads/lead cast..........found out what I was doing was putting a small ring in the chamber,caused by the fast powder.....I had to lap the chamber ,not to eliminate the ring,but to remove any areas where the brass cases were dragging .......to do this I used 30/30 cases ,with fine (400 grit) lapping compound.

[BK7saum]

With a hard to open bolt, I'm wondering I'd there is setback on the lug abutments from previous high pressure loadings. a protruding primer shouldn't cause a hard to open bolt.

[cwlongshot]

Its a slight head space issue. Probably one you created by moving shoulder back when resizing.

As mentioned, The case is moved forward in the chamber and upon firing the primer is pushed out with pressure. But because pressure is light, the case isnt set back to re seat it. Not super uncommon. Not dangerious either.

I was forming some 6.5/06 using starting loads and a 130 Sierra J bullet. The brass was formed from 30/06 then annealed and loaded. I had very hard bolt lift. Mine was determined to be soft cases as my load was cery light and this gun allowes long seated bullets so max advertised loads are never hot in it.

CW

[Larry Gibson]

Drilling out flash holes is the solution along with neck sizing the cases. I use cases with the flash holes drilled out with a #30 drill in my Ross M10 which was giving me similar problems. I suggest a #30 to not larger than a #28 drill.

Drilling out the flash holes is not dangerous. I conducted an extensive test using such cases in the .308W measuring the pressures and velocities with low cast bullet loads all the way up to full loads with jacketed bullets. Actually with light loads of faster burning powder such as you are using the larger flash hole will give more consistent ignition. Reading all the test results through out the thread will give you a good under standing;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?377629-Is-drilling-out-flash-holes-dangerous

[ShooterAZ]

Drilling the flashholes is the solution. Continued firing of light loads will eventually lead to headspace problems due to the shoulder being set back by the primer thrust.

[swheeler]

Neck sizing should cure this problem for you, a Lee collet neck sizer sounds to order. Even though this is a rimmed cartridge that is supposed to head space off the rim the chambers are large sized for extreme field conditions. Neck sizing will make you brass last longer by a large margin and allow you to head space off the shoulder like a rimless cartridge. As ShooterAz suggests drilling flash holes will help keep the shoulder where it should be.

[cwlongshot]

Neck sizing is ONLY an option if you know you have properly fireformed cases. These cases ARE NOT! We know this because the primers where un seated.

CW

[M-Tecs]

It's a low pressure side effect. You have at least workable three solutions. Increase the pressure enough that the primers reseat, use O-rings on the case or as Larry suggested drill the flashhole. The 303 headspaces on the rim but the issue is the primer force pushing the case forward. Neck sizing may or may not work depending on pressures. Magnum primers generally makes this side effect more pronounced.

Some great info on drilling primers here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?377629-Is-drilling-out-flash-holes-dangerous

[swheeler]

Neck sizing is ONLY an option if you know you have properly fireformed cases. These cases ARE NOT! We know this because the primers where un seated.

CW
1-Load them up enough to reseat the primers, then neck size.
2-Neck size only and load hotter until primers reseat, then NK size only
3- expand the necks to 35 caliber, size back until you can just chamber a round with slight resistance, creating a false shoulder and zero head space, after this firing NK size only

[Multigunner]

that's normal for low pressure, everythime you fire the primer backs out because that's where the pressure starts, shoves primer back and case forward kinda wedges like that, then normally the case would make even more pressure and send the case back over the primer seating it flat again. theres a thread on what size drill bit you can drill the flash hole with to make it not happen. ill add it if I can find it

you can google to it, cast boolits is drilling out flash holes dangerous

Had the same problem with light loads behind a standard 158 gr bullet in a Colt .38 Special.
Later when using an even lighter load behind a round ball a S&W Airweight functioned with no drag at all. I suspect the very light RB load didn't build enough pressure for the case to expand much if any.

[uscra112]

GUYS, it's a rimmed cartridge! Just think about that for a moment.

BTW that primer protrusion is a measure of your headspace.

And Quickload says that 11.5 grains of Red Dot is producing something like 32,000 psi with that weight bullet. Not exactly a pipsqueak load.

Based on what's been posted, I'd be looking for a rough chamber.

I wouldn't rule out the lug abutment setback possibility either. That plus rough chamber would make the bolt lift hard. As the bolt is opened, it has to move forward to get out of the "pocket" in the abutments, but the case doesn't want to move with it.

Slower powder would get you the velocity you want at lower peak pressure. That might alleviate the problem until you can get the chamber polished. Something in the range of AA1680 or RL-7 or H4198. I've read of guys using around 30 grains of Varget in the Krag case for cast bullets in that weight range. Quickload says pressure would be just over half of what you're getting with Red Dot.

[M-Tecs]

I had very good results with Ed Harris "the load" using 13 grains of Red Dot.

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/The%20Load.htm

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?76622-Max-load-of-Red-Dot-and-303-British

[uscra112]

And with a gun that doesn't have any wear&tear issues you wouldn't. I've fired enough myself to know, although I eventually quit with the Red Dot and started using a lot of the powders I mentioned, (except I never have tried that Varget idea. Health has kept me from any ranges longer than my back yard for nigh on four years now. :sad: )

[Peregrine]

Alright, so I pulled the rounds I loaded and tried again.
I loaded 5 up with 13.0gr of Red Dot. The primer protrusion was as expected much less noticeable. As you may have noticed i'm using mixed brass, and I noticed that the force required to open the bolt varied from headstamp to headstamp. The RP seem to take the most force, and I had one single Dominion headstamp in there and it extracted with no force at all! I processed all my 303 brass as one lot, same sizing/trim length, everything. This could be a red herring?

I'm 10 min from the range so I went back home and loaded up 5 more, this time with 14.0gr Red Dot. Extraction was as problematic as ever. Primers are pretty close to flush now though so we might be dealing with unrelated factors here.

I'm running cast in a half dozen rifles and almost as many calibers without many problem. I was really looking forward to getting this rifle shooting since I have cosmetically nice Mk.III Ross that is very nice except for the last two inches or so of rifling being worn right out and giving poor accuracy. I snapped this rifle up since the bore was good (and it's MUCH lighter) so I could get some Ross fun in and use up .303 brass I have lying around to throw some cast.



GUYS, it's a rimmed cartridge! Just think about that for a moment.

I'm thinking about it. What are the implications?

BTW that primer protrusion is a measure of your headspace.

And Quickload says that 11.5 grains of Red Dot is producing something like 32,000 psi with that weight bullet. Not exactly a pipsqueak load.

I'm using Red Dot in a few different calibers with great results. I'm curious what quick load would say about 14 grains of Red Dot, actual mass of the boolit is 192gr. with the gas check. Lyman Cast manual has loads listed in Red Dot in many calibers, but they never give pressure data. I'm in the range i'd be cautious going higher, for sure.


Based on what's been posted, I'd be looking for a rough chamber.

That's something i'm considering as well. Looking at the chamber it does not appear rough though, no pitting or rust that I can see. What could I do on this front?

I wouldn't rule out the lug abutment setback possibility either. That plus rough chamber would make the bolt lift hard. As the bolt is opened, it has to move forward to get out of the "pocket" in the abutments, but the case doesn't want to move with it.

Here's a bit of extra info for you. First thing's first, this rifle is a straight pull, so we don't actually have a "lift" component to opening the bolt. But after firing I can move the bolt a fraction of an inch back, and see the lugs start to rotate out of battery, until I hit a wall. It seems more likely to me the lockup is very smooth, and I run into the resistance at the point where the lugs are partially unlocked and you're starting to actually pull the case out of the chamber.

Slower powder would get you the velocity you want at lower peak pressure. That might alleviate the problem until you can get the chamber polished. Something in the range of AA1680 or RL-7 or H4198. I've read of guys using around 30 grains of Varget in the Krag case for cast bullets in that weight range. Quickload says pressure would be just over half of what you're getting with Red Dot.

I'm not after velocity at all. I would indeed use up some of my Varget or H4895 at around 30 grains, i've done that in other calibers/rifles with good result. I in fact was strongly considering trying 30grains of H4895 or more to see what would happen tonight but didn't feel like driving to the range for the third time. Great post,thanks for your thoughts

[nekshot]

I have nothing to ad to what advice is given, but I kinda envy you with that rifle! Problem and all I would be happy with it because you will get it figured out!

[swheeler]

14 grains of Red Dot is too hot with that bullet. You now have the 5 cases from that loading that are fully fire formed though. I would neck size them only, drill the flash holes, load with your original 11.5 grain RedDot and fire. If this solved your extraction problem you know how to fix the rest.

EDIT:14 grains of Red Dot is too hot with that bullet. This is my opinion only. I do not have Quick Load to ESTIMATE time/pressure

[uscra112]

Quick and incomplete answer. 14 grains of Red Dot calculates to 44,000 psi in the model, assuming I have guessed the seating depth correctly. The peak comes just about .23 milliseconds after ignition, which is very quick. Calculated velocity 1700 fps. Contrast with a load of 16 grains of Blue Dot, which also yields a calculated 1700 fps, but the peak pressure is only 24,500 psi, reached at .62 milliseconds. That should explain why I switched all those years ago.

Keep in mind that the velocity you get most closely relates the area under the pressure/time curve. Red Dot goes very high, but drops off very quickly, too. The slower powder doesn't go so high, but stays elevated longer.

I know almost nothing about the Ross, never having had one . But I do have two K-31s, so I'm not totally ignorant of the principles. Despite being a straight pull, the bolt still rotates to lock. That little bit of rotation you say you can see may be what is necessary to take up lost motion before initiating primary extraction?

This is all hypothesis, of course. I could be all wet, but I can't think of anything else that explains what you've described.

I'd try thinly coating a case with magic marker ink, firing it with your 11 grain load, and looking for indications that it's dragging during primary extraction. That would definitely show if you've got a ringed chamber. If it's not, then write off the hypothesis and look elsewhere.

[swheeler]

Drilling out flash holes is the solution along with neck sizing the cases. I use cases with the flash holes drilled out with a #30 drill in my Ross M10 which was giving me similar problems. I suggest a #30 to not larger than a #28 drill.
I believe Larry

As to the 14 gr of RedDot with 192 gr bullet, too hot is my opinion, you can shoot as many of those as you want.

[uscra112]

The .303 is a rimmed cartridge. Drilling flash holes out was a fix for shoulder setback in rimless cartridges.

[WILCO]

:popcorn:

[uscra112]

You got it.

[WILCO]

The .303 is a rimmed cartridge. Drilling flash holes out was a fix for shoulder setback in rimless cartridges.

For the record, I didn't catch that fact until it was pointed out.
Love learning and relearning.

[swheeler]

Neck sizing should cure this problem for you, a Lee collet neck sizer sounds to order. Even though this is a rimmed cartridge that is supposed to head space off the rim the chambers are large sized for extreme field conditions. Neck sizing will make you brass last longer by a large margin and allow you to head space off the shoulder like a rimless cartridge. As ShooterAz suggests drilling flash holes will help keep the shoulder where it should be.

This was posted by me before uscra112 ever rang in- THIS IS POST #8 in this thread

It has been common knowledge of handloaders for many many years that headspacing off the shoulder on RIMMED and BELTED cases promotes case life, accuracy. If you push the shoulder back say .020"(not that far out of liner with some full length dies)every time you FL size to load and the rimmed cartridge alread has .010" headspace, if you have enough pressure to expand the case from shoulder to bolt face- you have stretched that brass .030" it will soon seperate.

[uscra112]

*sigh* This has nothing to do with his apparent case-sticking problem.

[swheeler]

for the record, i didn't catch that fact until it was pointed out.
Love learning and relearning.

Read post #8! POSTED THE DAY BEFORE uscra112 even posted. I mean who can look at a big picture of case head stamped 303 BRITISH and say I didn't realize it was a rimmed case:veryconfu:shock:

[swheeler]

*sigh* This has nothing to do with his apparent case-sticking problem.

Sigh all you want, I'm not convinced of that. But lets just let the OP try his 5 fire formed cases and then we'll know. I take it you have never loaded for any belted cartridges either, or at least only a couple times before you had to buy new brass same as your 303. If you have a shoulder use it, if not you are stuck with a belt or a rim;);)

[303Guy]

The .303 is a rimmed cartridge. Drilling flash holes out was a fix for shoulder setback in rimless cartridges.
This is true but treat it as one would a rimless. Forget the rim, the case must headspace on the shoulder. With the primer protruding, this is not going to happen and the case is not fully fireformed.

Looking at those primer, that is quite a stout load for a 303 Brit. Don't look at the outer edge of the primer - that only gets squared off when the case sets back or the primers are softer. Look at how the primer has filled the firing pin indent. The problem could be a pressure wave that expands the neck and shoulder area. I have had full pressure loads that fill the firing pin indent as much as these if not more so from a gun with rust pitting in the neck area with not extraction difficulties. The necks do not expand into the (large) pits. Then again I have fired light, shotgun powder loads with light boolits in the same gun that hardly showed any firing pin indent filling at all yet were jammed tight into those neck rust pits!

A little trick on fire forming cases with moderate loads is to lightly lube the cartridges to be fired. This allows the neck and shoulder area to fill out forward while allowing the case body to progressively expand rearward to fully seat against the bolt face without drawing around the web area. Cases fireformed in this way will still have a nominal clearance due to springback. Even cases that are tight on closing will come out freely. With this method one can see how the striations on the case get progressively longer from the shoulder area where there are none, to the web area.

[M-Tecs]

First being rimmed or rimless has zero bearing on the OP's issue of the primer backing out. Shoulder setback is not an issue per the OP and it shouldn't be based on it being a rimmed cartridge. Drilling flash holes is done for a variety of reasons of which shoulder setback in bottleneck case is just one. Wax bullet or blank use is another (been drilling flashholes since 1970 for this). Same for some drilling for better accuracy with Blackpowder (I don't believe after limited testing it but some do put great stock in it).

Headspacing off a rim or belt is the SAAMI standard for belted or rimmed cartridges, however, just like using SAAMI specs for bottleneck cases the SAAMI specs don't maximize case life or accuracy. Regardless if the case is a bottleneck, rimmed or belted case adjusting the sizing die to minimize shoulder setback is optimal.

All primers back out on firing. When the case does not reset the cause is simple. The pressure in the primer pocket is greater than the pressure of the case pushing back. This pressure/movement is normally referred to as bolt thrust.

This is just my opinion but I believe in bottleneck cases faster powders require more pressure to reseat primers. This is solely based on personal experience with light loads in a 30/30. My guess is that the pressure with fast powders the pressure curves between the primer and powder is such the case pressure dissipates before the primer pocket pressure dissipates???????

[swheeler]

303 I used the lightly oiled case trick on the 8x56R with 13. gr red dot to get cases formed-primers to reseated. I don't have neck dies for it so I just size about 3/4 of the neck. The dies Lee provide OVER size this case large amounts. I actually headspace off the shoulder on my 30/40 krag, 8x56R and the 7.62x54R all rimmed cartridges. I also headspace the 264 Win mag, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win off the shoulder, 458 uses the belt like it was designed. Thank you for chiming in.

[john.k]

note the headstamp...RP...notorious for cribbing the last microgram of brass by making rims way under spec........Headspace excessive by virtue of brass rim being a lot under spec thickness.........cure ,dont waste your money on Remington Peters ammo,buy PPU .

[swheeler]

note the headstamp...RP...notorious for cribbing the last microgram of brass by making rims way under spec........Headspace excessive by virtue of brass rim being a lot under spec thickness.........cure ,dont waste your money on Remington Peters ammo,buy PPU .

John I just went through my junk can and found some 303 Brit. tiny test sample but here's what I got....

R-P rim thickness .061"
HXP 70 .059"
HXP 71 .059"
VPT 40 .061"

[Multigunner]

Commercial sporting .303 cartridge case rims are within specs. Many Military .303 case rims are out of spec by being too thick.
Military rifles often have headspace on the loose end of maximum allowable headspace.
Older British .303 sporting rifles sometimes can not be used with military surplus .303 cartridges.

[swheeler]

Peregrine has been shooting PPU factory loaded 303 ammo and reports it works beautifully, smooth extraction, bolt just slides back slick as can be, I love it when a fine rifle shoots like it should.:drinks: Hum I guess all the ringed chamber, it's a rimmed cartridge, blah-blah BS [smilie=s:wasn't to be. Hopefully Peregrine will chime in!

[samari46]

Limit your ross to one brand of cases. Open up the necks with an 8mm a lyman M die. Resize your cases so that they give a crush fit in your rifles chamber. Try a few first before locking down the die ring. Sort of a cut and try approach to your problem. By crush fit I mean you'll actually feel the bolt close on the case. Some shooters do the same process with their 9.3x57mm Husky's. Neck up to 375 caliber, size for a crush fit in the 9.3x57 chamber no more primers sticking out the back end. And the 9.3x57 pressures run about 40K so is a fairly mild cartridge. muzzle velocity runs about 2000-2100 feet per second. Frank

[uscra112]

Easier said than done with his straight-pull Ross.

[swheeler]

I'm hoping he takes it out and bags a couple crows!:bigsmyl2:

[Peregrine]

As swheeler has reported, PPU 180gr. SP's allowed this rifle to function flawlessly. Bolt would practically fall open, the rifle was a joy to shoot.
I only brought a box of 20, this was a quick experiment after a long weekend of other shooter/casting activities and I wish I had had more faith.

After confirming function I did a couple full mag dumps shooting as fast as I could work the action and get hits on steel. I got it pretty hot, all this shooting was offhand and between 50-200m but the rifle was hitting POA and with authority, PPU loads these all the way up!

The action very easy to work and crisp, virtually no force required to extract. Quite the contrast to my handloads!

I did not attempt to recover any of my brass from the snow, i'm going to shoot the ross again with more PPU to build some brass up that's been fire formed to this rifles chamber, then experiment with neck sizing and trying cast again. I'll all the brass when the snow melts.



I'm curious if I could take the assorted .303 brass I have, full length size it through my redding die, and load up some jacketed .303's replicate the success I had with the commercial loading. I'd have to size it again because I already expanded all the necks for cast. I'm going to have to go out and buy some .303 bullets, i'd be tempted to pull some from 7.62x39's but the Ross deserves better than cheap bimetal.

[swheeler]

I would be looking for the PPU brass when the snow melts, mixed brass is never the best choice for accuracy but I have used plenty of it! Now this is just me but I would pull down a PPU loaded round and weigh the powder charge, measure a bullet for diameter, COAL, and then chrono at least 2 rounds and record everything. Open up your favorite loading manual to 303 Brit, by using the powder charge and velocity you recorded you now have the approximate powder speed for 180 gr bullet of correct diameter and shape, now you can use published data and a chrony to duplicate the PPU ammo. When you get some more trigger time I look forward to a range report. When you start loading for accuracy with cast it will be fun I'm sure!

[Peregrine]

I would be looking for the PPU brass when the snow melts, mixed brass is never the best choice for accuracy but I have used plenty of it! Now this is just me but I would pull down a PPU loaded round and weigh the powder charge, measure a bullet for diameter, COAL, and then chrono at least 2 rounds and record everything. Open up your favorite loading manual to 303 Brit, by using the powder charge and velocity you recorded you now have the approximate powder speed for 180 gr bullet of correct diameter and shape, now you can use published data and a chrony to duplicate the PPU ammo. When you get some more trigger time I look forward to a range report. When you start loading for accuracy with cast it will be fun I'm sure!


I'm not too concerned about trying chase groups with the Ross as much as manufacturing functioning plinking ammo.
My shooting bench is in an advanced state of disrepair and wobbles far to much to allow any real accuracy work.

I do however, have a good collection of steel targets at all ranges and just enjoy shooting offhand at 50-250m for cast. Mixed brass will be more than fine. I bought this rifle specifically for such shooting. It points exceptionally well, the trigger is excellent, and the action is slick and easy to work, it's a true pleasure to handle. Especially now that it's actually shooting.

This rifle is far too much fun to shoot really fast, you can work the action very quick. :) :) :)

The express sights consist of a relatively tiny bead and notch, while I shot pretty well with them they're definitely not my preference. When I was shooting it was in the glare of a cloudless sky on white snow so my eyes did OK. :)


Reading through this thread again I see a few comments about 14gr. of Red Dot being too heavy of a charge for the weight of boolit. This is likely true, that was the maximum of what I deemed appropriate to establish if simply increasing pressure would change the internal ballistics enough the brass would extract easily. uscra112's quickload data is appreciated, I had no plan to load any hotter than that nor load more.

[samari46]

Bad thing I have found is where the case wall meets the solid part of the 303 case. Supposed to be .455 but all U.S. made cases seem to suffer from this defect. Privi, including the old Hanson Cartridge company brass does not show the case bulges. Neither does the Greek HXP nor the South African berdan cases. I've shot just about all of the different 303 British ammo I could find including some WWII and post war British ammo as well as the above and the case bulges that showed up were all U.S. manufacture. A lot of the British WWII and post war British 303 is well past its expiration date and we'd not speak of the Pakastani 303. All the ammo I mentioned was fired in a #4MKII made in 1949 with good headspace. Standard velocity for 303 is in the area of 2440 feet per second. U.S. ammo is loaded slightly hotter. 2500 plus feet per second. Have a Perker Hale sporter done up on a Long Branch arsenal #4MKI* w/2 groove barrel. Have to glass bed the action body and in the back of the forestock as you can see light between it and the front of the butt socket. Nice piece of wood so don't want it to crack from being unsupported. My version
is the bottom one. All they did was chop the barrel, cut the forestock down and install a sporting ramp front sight that takes standard #4 sight blades. Englands gun industry was in tatters after the war and with hundreds of military surplus P14's.P13's,and scads of Enfields of all kinds this was a way to make money. I read that food rationing for the Brits didn't stop until the mid 50's. Frank

[303Guy]

Great to see your Ross is working fine with the PPU, Peregrine!

Samari, there is supposed to be a clearance between the rear or the fore-end and the front of the butt socket. I have a SMLE chambered in 25-303 with a plastic fore-end (that I have since dumped for being too heavy) that was a loose fit. I stuck a piece of cloth tightly under the knox form and this thing shot sub-MOA (I don't remember whether that was before or after the cloth but after the cloth it was very accurate). I have a Longbranch No.4 two-groove with a poorly fitted fore-end and that too was very accurate. It was however, sensitive to hold so I once again stuck tight fitting cloth under the fore-end (from the same cloth) and that fixed the hold sensitivity problem.

An earlier comment on the pressure of the Red Dot load was that it was a rather high pressure load. The primer indicated a fairly high pressure load - not excessive but high for a light load. The problem with fast powders and fairly high pressure loads is dynamics of the pressure wave inside the case. When a full power load does not expand the necks int rust pits while a light load does, it tells me something. That's on my one rifle with rust pits in the neck area.

I've done a bit of work on primer pressure reading (relative pressure) and those primers would alarm me with fast powder. Not so much with slow powder. For slow powder that would be moderate pressure.

[samari46]

303Guy, many years ago I bought a #5 jungle carbine. Most poorly fitted firearm I've ever worked with. You could grab the buttstock and actually twist it even after the stock bolt was checked for tightness. Forestock was just as bad. Groups were like shotgun patterns. Bedded the section of wood that went into the butt socket, the back end which was already showing some minor cracks and action and barrel. Let sit for a week took it apart and cleaned it up. From patterns to 2" groups with R-P 303 British with the 180 grain RN bullet. Sadly my shooting buddy kept waving money and relented so sold it to him. He passed away and I didn;t find out till after the funeral. The back end of the forestock is also showing minor cracks on the PH sporter and is also a little loose. I can see light between the front of the butt socket and the back end of the forestock. Which means some of the wood is unsupported and taking some of the strain from recoil when fired. Anyway we're talking about a 78 year old rifle (long Branch made in '42) and possibly the same age for the wood. Even when assembled and all screws tight that sliver of light is still there. Will glass it and the action body and first inch or so of the barrel or a little more. Never had a bedding job that did not show an improvement. Frank

[john.k]

One thing Ive noticed (actually had pointed out) is that with light loads the Ross bolt comes partly open ,then closes again.I suspect this is because the lugs are cut with a considerable screw pitch.......if you own a Ross ,and look at a Swiss,you can see alot of things done to cure the faults of a straight pull.......unfortunately the Swiss ended up with a very ugly action,while the Ross is trim and taut.

[john.k]

When I get sticky extraction with a Ross,first thing is to dismantle the bolt and grease the splines with moly grease......A Ross can jam empty if the bolt is dry inside.....Cure is run oil down the firing pin.

[Larry Gibson]

Peregrine

I got the same sticky extraction with similar loads in my Ross M10. It is causes by the backed out primers and the lack of very good primary bolt camming of the Ross design. Solution was simple; Drill out the flash holes with a #28 drill so the force of the primer explosion doesn't back the primer out. There are reasons the primer backs out but none are the fault of the rifle. It's simply the use of such loads in the Ross design. With standard cast or jacketed loads I NS the cases and still have easy extraction. Once the flash holes were drilled out for the very light cast loads extraction proved as easy.