OK if patches are a little big?

[brewer12345]

I prefer to use precut and lubed patches. Have to look, but if I can't locally source patches meant for a 30-39 cal ball, can I get away with the next size up (40-49 cal)?

[trails4u]

Only your rifle, ball, patch and load can really answer that. Shoot them....see what happens?

[brewer12345]

Yeah. I might just order some appropriate patches online.

[Minerat]

Get some scissors or a knife and cut the excess material off at the muzzle after you start the ball.

[Winger Ed.]

Get some scissors or a knife and cut the excess material off at the muzzle after you start the ball.

I'm not a BP guy, but I've seen that done a few times by guys with a large greasy piece of cloth.
I didn't know they even had pre-made patches.

[rfd]

as always, allow the gun to report what it likes to be fed. testing is always a requirement. have at it! ;)

i'd rather use pre-lubed patch strips, and cut the patching at the muzzle, for a perfect fit to the ball and rifling.

better yet, particularly for match events, i'd rather employ a ball board, where it's fast one step loading of already patched balls.

251227

251228

[RU shooter]

I don't see what it would hurt using an oversized patch , long as your rod tip is small enough dia. not to be a tight fit with the extra material above the ball when you ram it home . The edges/corners of the square cut patches I use are above the dia of the ball can't tell the difference between that and a "proper" sized round patch . Give it a try I'm betting there's no decernable difference in accuracy .

[rfd]

patch size OR shape won't matter for the most part. all that matters is the right cloth material and thickness, the lube, the ball diameter.

[mooman76]

I do all the time. Way over sized might effect it a little. I cant see anything noticeable in the difference. As long as they aren't too small.

[indian joe]

I bet too small patch causes way more strife than too big - however way too big (patch material right over the front of the ball) has caused me grief one time

[longcruise]

If you like pre cut, it works pretty well to cut squares of a uniform appropriate size. Gives you control over your patch size and quality.

[rfd]

I bet too small patch causes way more strife than too big - however way too big (patch material right over the front of the ball) has caused me grief one time

i agree on both accounts, joe - a good reason to cut at the muzzle or ball board.

[indian joe]

i agree on both accounts, joe - a good reason to cut at the muzzle or ball board.

ya know ....I always cut one on the muzzle to get the size -- I never thought to cut a patch on the ball board!!! thats a way better way of establishing the correct size to pre cut patches - just to darn simple I guess :D

thanks for the tip

[longcruise]

ya know ....I always cut one on the muzzle to get the size -- I never thought to cut a patch on the ball board!!! thats a way better way of establishing the correct size to pre cut patches - just to darn simple I guess :D

thanks for the tip

That's what I do too. It works fine. It's nice to have the bard firmly held while doing it so as to keep all your fingers. :oops: The other thing I like to do is to use a board thicker than ball size. That way everything is inside the board and not subject to rubbing or getting (as) dirty. My boards are for three to five balls and only for hunting. They easily fit into the shooting bag and don't add much weight. When it comes to plinking or match shooting I cut at the muzzle.

So many ways to do these things!

[rfd]

if allowed, i always use a ball board during matches - this just allows more time for aiming and is pretty much mandatory for timed events.

[brewer12345]

Do you guys make or buy your ball boards?

[rfd]

far too easy to make ...

.36 caliber patched ball--------------------> 3/8 inch drill bit
.40 caliber patched ball -------------------> 13/32 inch drill bit
.45 caliber patched ball--------------------> 15/32 inch drill bit
.50 caliber patched ball--------------------> 1/2 inch drill bit
.54 caliber patched ball--------------------> 35/64, 17/32 inch drill bit
.58 caliber patched ball--------------------> 19/32 inch drill bit
.62 caliber patched ball--------------------> 5/8 inch drill bit


https://i.imgur.com/lZJOPU7.jpg

[brewer12345]

How about 32? That is the one I had in mind.

[oldracer]

Here are the various patches I have tried:
- round pillow ticking for 45 and 50 caliber round balls; they are 0.015 thick, worked okay with 0.90 round balls, not with 0.44 round balls
- square pillow ticking for 45 and 50 caliber round balls; exactly the same as above, no difference in the shape.
- OxYoke pre lubed patches I got as part of my purchase of my Pedersoli Gibbs? Two sizes 40-45 and 60-70 and two thicknesses 0.005 and 0.010. I never tried any of them in my 50 caliber rifles as I win matches with 0.90 balls and 0.015 pillow ticking all square cut. No reason to change now.
- I tried the 0.005 prelubed patches in my new 45 caliber pistol, they were too loose, tried the 0.015 pillow ticking, too tight and the 0.010 pre lubed patches seem to fit just right! Wednesday to the 50 yard target I got 5 shots within 3 inches with the pistol resting on a set of cross sticks. I did add a tad bit of Bore Butter to each patch and tried cutting off a tad bit of excess material with my antique straight razor but that seems to make no difference.

I stopped at Supper Walmart on the way home and they still have pillow ticking and I measured it at 0.018 before washing it. I did buy a few yards of linen that was 0.012 before washing and after washing last night it now measures 0.010 inches so we'll see how it works. I'll try to remember to let everyone know as A builder of one of my more accurate 50 caliber off hand rifles swears by linen and sent me a sample AND the antique razor!

As was noted earlier, shoot each and every type you can think of OFF A REST to see what works best for your gun.
John

[Hanshi]

Exact patch size isn't too important in actuality. There can be lots of overlap. For instance; .32, 36 or .32, .36 and .40 can often use the same patch size. Then there's .40, .45 and even .50 can use the same size. As long as your seating rod doesn't get trapped by the patch inside the rifle bore then it's usually okay.

[rfd]

How about 32? That is the one I had in mind.

perhaps 11/32". get a cheap drill bit set and do some testing. when you've got the right bit, get short piece of hardwood board from a big box store and have at it.

[Eddie Southgate]

Minerat or rfd style is the way to go . I cut my own patches , oversized , and then trim with a pakistan straight razor at the muzzle . Barely seat the ball , gather excess patch and cut away the excess , preferably without cutting any fingers . Seat with the short starter rod then ram it home . Been working for me for over 50 years . Boards are great for hunting but I never use them otherwise .

[rfd]

Minerat or rfd style is the way to go . I cut my own patches , oversized , and then trim with a pakistan straight razor at the muzzle . Barely seat the ball , gather excess patch and cut away the excess , preferably without cutting any fingers . Seat with the short starter rod then ram it home . Been working for me for over 50 years . Boards are great for hunting but I never use them otherwise .

why precut oversized patches that will only get cut again at the muzzle instead of using a patch strip, which also reduces cloth waste?

[oldracer]

The fellow who taught me to shoot patched round balls told me the shape or the size of the patch is not as important as the thickness of the material when sealing the ball to the inside of the rifle. I see some of our shooters at out monthly matches hammer away to make the patched ball go down......then there are a couple who have little to no resistance when loading the patched round ball. Neither win very often if at all. I was told you should have some fair amount of resistance but be able to push the patched ball all the way down in one firm motion. Any patch material over top of the ball will just help clean out the bore and generally if you look at your patches after shooting they will show little to no discoloration of the part in front of the ball. I usually check one or two of my patches at every shoot or if I am practicing to see how they look.
John

[rfd]

spot on, oldracer, spot on.

[indian joe]

The fellow who taught me to shoot patched round balls told me the shape or the size of the patch is not as important as the thickness of the material when sealing the ball to the inside of the rifle. I see some of our shooters at out monthly matches hammer away to make the patched ball go down......then there are a couple who have little to no resistance when loading the patched round ball. Neither win very often if at all. I was told you should have some fair amount of resistance but be able to push the patched ball all the way down in one firm motion. Any patch material over top of the ball will just help clean out the bore and generally if you look at your patches after shooting they will show little to no discoloration of the part in front of the ball. I usually check one or two of my patches at every shoot or if I am practicing to see how they look.
John

If there is some ball showing when the patch is closed right over its ok - more patch than that is too much and it might work ok - didnt for me !!!! ----54 patches used in a 45 (yeah got lazy didnt I !) spread my groups out to better than double with my flinter - I shoot that gun a lot and all it took was change back to proper sized patches to sort the problem .

(definitions) regarding resistance--- if you can "push the ball all the way down in one firm motion" ---I would call that slick and easy loading ? ideal I reckon -most fellers on the range load tighter than that - I find I can beat most of the hammer wielders, so have never been interested in doing it (tight loading).

I precut all my patches simply because its easier (for me) - I have some good wad punches, a big hammer, good hardwood block on the back path - takes just a few minutes to cut a couple hundred - never as perfect as cut on the muzzle but --- me and a razor in the heat of a match ?? dunno about that - kinda see pictures of a bloke in a white coat with a needle in his paw :groner:

[rfd]

joe, make yerself a ball board and you'll be loading and shootin' faster 'n' a machine gun. promise. ;)

https://i.imgur.com/F0RsQeJ.jpg

[waksupi]

joe, make yerself a ball board and you'll be loading and shootin' faster 'n' a machine gun. promise. ;)

https://i.imgur.com/F0RsQeJ.jpg

For some reason, these seem to have fallen out of favor in this area. I seldom see them at the shoots here among the old timers. I used them years ago, but got away from them as my loading technique improved. The only time I've used them the past 20 years or so, was a block that held four, for hunting purposes.

[LAGS]

I still use loading boards even at the range.
That reminds me , I need to make one for my .61 Renagade.
I also do a 1/8" recessed counter bore on one side that fits the muzzle diameter.
That way it self centers on the end of the barrel and makes lineing up to the bore even faster.

[Buzzard II]

far too easy to make ...

.36 caliber patched ball--------------------> 3/8 inch drill bit
.40 caliber patched ball -------------------> 13/32 inch drill bit
.45 caliber patched ball--------------------> 15/32 inch drill bit
.50 caliber patched ball--------------------> 1/2 inch drill bit
.54 caliber patched ball--------------------> 35/64, 17/32 inch drill bit
.58 caliber patched ball--------------------> 19/32 inch drill bit
.62 caliber patched ball--------------------> 5/8 inch drill bit


https://i.imgur.com/lZJOPU7.jpg

Rob,
Thanks for supplying the drill bit sizes!
Bob

[rfd]

For some reason, these seem to have fallen out of favor in this area. I seldom see them at the shoots here among the old timers. I used them years ago, but got away from them as my loading technique improved. The only time I've used them the past 20 years or so, was a block that held four, for hunting purposes.

ric, they're indispensable at some shoots where time is a factor, and that's when i use 'em ... along with 90% of my fellow competitors. :)

[Eddie Southgate]

why precut oversized patches that will only get cut again at the muzzle instead of using a patch strip, which also reduces cloth waste?

I only cut two sizes ,one for .45 and smaller and one that will do .45 to .54 . I have plenty of cloth .

[oldracer]

I should have said a very firm motion as I actually sort of hop up on my toes to gain the leverage to seat the patched ball. When I tried the 0.44 balls with 0.005 patches in my newly created pistol, it felt like loading a bore rider slug gun bullet! I didn't mention I tamp the patched round ball with 3 bumps on the rod, no more, no less. That is mainly to just make sure that it is all the way down as I have had a couple that didn't bottom out and also went PAST the loaded marker on my super rod! We all know hat that means so now to do the following:

- If no powder is loaded....insert the funnel and leave it in.
- If powder HAS been loaded then the patched ball is immediately loader and ram rod (super rod) is left in the barrel.

This works well and since starting that idea no issues. If it is with my slug guns with NO false muzzle I do the same otherwise I leave the false muzzle attached and its lanyard prevents getting the gun in position to shoot. Remember TRY EVERY POSSIBILITY SEVERAL TIMES OFF A REST OR LEAD SLED.
John

[rfd]

two of the most important parts of my traditional muzzleloader loading process ...

* blow down the barrel after a shot is taken to make sure there's nothing left glowing in the chamber

* once the patched ball is pushed (not rammed) into the chamber i'll keep flicking the rod down until it trampolines upwards of its own accord, which means the ball is fully seated and the powder is slightly compressed

additionally, i'll typically use a brass muzzle guard anytime a rod needs to go down the tube.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=oldracer;4765166]I should have said a very firm motion as I actually sort of hop up on my toes to gain the leverage to seat the patched ball. When I tried the 0.44 balls with 0.005 patches in my newly created pistol, it felt like loading a bore rider slug gun bullet! I didn't mention I tamp the patched round ball with 3 bumps on the rod, no more, no less. That is mainly to just make sure that it is all the way down

I knew what ya meant once I thought about it a bit - but first reaction wuz Nah! I load easy and they shoot straight --if we loaded side by side at the range one of us would likely be accused of copying the other - three bumps on the rod - yep!
Joe

[waksupi]

two of the most important parts of my traditional muzzleloader loading process ...

* blow down the barrel after a shot is taken to make sure there's nothing left glowing in the chamber

* once the patched ball is pushed (not rammed) into the chamber i'll keep flicking the rod down until it trampolines upwards of its own accord, which means the ball is fully seated and the powder is slightly compressed

additionally, i'll typically use a brass muzzle guard anytime a rod needs to go down the tube.

The lawyer laden NMLRA does a disservice to shooters when they started telling them to not blow down the bore.

[waksupi]

ric, they're indispensable at some shoots where time is a factor, and that's when i use 'em ... along with 90% of my fellow competitors. :)

Speed shoots are pretty much outlawed ion this area, as pilgrims had a nasty habit of breaking ramrods and running them through their hands.

[rfd]

Speed shoots are pretty much outlawed ion this area, as pilgrims had a nasty habit of breaking ramrods and running them through their hands.

a metal ramrod as a rule requirement fixes the stupid people that get the event banned.

[rfd]

The lawyer laden NMLRA does a disservice to shooters when they started telling them to not blow down the bore.

indeed. never used to be that way until that org got too big for its britches, changed focus and direction.

blowing down the barrel was a standard procedure done from back eons ago to near the end of the 20th century. this simple process eliminated accidents and saved lives. could've help mike nesbitt back in 2012 when as he poured a measured load down the tube it all exploded, barely missing his face, blowing the measure out of sight, blackening and numbing his hand. he was Very Lucky he didn't get a full powder explosion in the face. THIS is why we always blow down the barrel.

http://bwanabob.info/page2.html

[LAGS]

I made up a bellows to blow down the barrel and have seen guys use a peice of plastic tubing to blow down the barrel without putting your face near the muzzle.
Is that legal in competition to use those type of devices?

[rfd]

I made up a bellows to blow down the barrel and have seen guys use a peice of plastic tubing to blow down the barrel without putting your face near the muzzle.
Is that legal in competition to use those type of devices?

a neoprene tube, such as used for BPCR fouling control blow tubing, is not allowed at my club shoots for blowing down the barrel, unfortunately. just one more thing to protect dumb people at the expense of those with at least a smattering of common sense.

[indian joe]

a neoprene tube, such as used for BPCR fouling control blow tubing, is not allowed at my club shoots for blowing down the barrel, unfortunately. just one more thing to protect dumb people at the expense of those with at least a smattering of common sense.

Yeah (another slant maybe)
I got tapped on the shoulder in Queensland several years ago - our SSAA (takes the lead from NMLRA on rules) - - blew down the barrel as I always had done tomake dsure the vent was clear- before I loaded a fouler charge in the safety area with my flinter----there he was "First and last warning - do it again and you pack your gear and go home (900mile drive from a one week shoot) this guy is noted for yelling at stupid people doing stupid things but he did this quiet and unobtrusive (because of the flint gun I think) so I said ok whats the story we both know why I do this - he says mate there are people here with cameras that dont know $hite about this and if they get a picture of you with the muzzle in your mouth it will be on the front page of every paper in the country and we will all be in a lot of trouble - such is life I guess

[indian joe]

I made up a bellows to blow down the barrel and have seen guys use a peice of plastic tubing to blow down the barrel without putting your face near the muzzle.
Is that legal in competition to use those type of devices?

I would doubt it in my country but dont know - some of these things are still open to interpretation to some extent - how do we read what was wrote?

Case in point --we are required to load powder from a separate measure not direct from the horn - my interpretation (until I get expelled from a range) is to use a separate measure that is charged from the powder horn - cap the horn - pour measure down bore - most shooters at the range use little plastic pill bottles with their measured charges in (different interpretation of what was wrote!) - usually a bunch of them loose in a plastic container on the bench - I am not arguing who is the most or least safe I just detest those little plastic vials and will resist the beauracracy to the end

Where is this at your side of the water?

[LAGS]

The range I go to has 4 benches just for ML's.
They don't let you load at your bench.
They have a bench behind the benches where they want you to load your guns and leave your powder on the back bench.
Then you have to prime or install your primer at the forward bench.
I comply with what they want if there are other shooters there.
But when I am alone I fudge a little.
The 4 ML benches are way down at one end of the range , so we don't Smoke out the other shooters.
The other range I go to down south has no range officers.
So people do what ever they want.

[rfd]

Yeah (another slant maybe)
I got tapped on the shoulder in Queensland several years ago - our SSAA (takes the lead from NMLRA on rules) - - blew down the barrel as I always had done tomake dsure the vent was clear- before I loaded a fouler charge in the safety area with my flinter----there he was "First and last warning - do it again and you pack your gear and go home (900mile drive from a one week shoot) this guy is noted for yelling at stupid people doing stupid things but he did this quiet and unobtrusive (because of the flint gun I think) so I said ok whats the story we both know why I do this - he says mate there are people here with cameras that dont know $hite about this and if they get a picture of you with the muzzle in your mouth it will be on the front page of every paper in the country and we will all be in a lot of trouble - such is life I guess

such is life in the new millennium, and how the new world is going down down the tubes by pandering to the stupid at the expense of those with clear common sense.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=LAGS;4765865]The range I go to has 4 benches just for ML's.
They don't let you load at your bench.
They have a bench behind the benches where they want you to load your guns and leave your powder on the back bench.
Then you have to prime or install your primer at the forward bench.

Thats standard procedure here too - and sensible - it dont take much spilled powder on a flat bench to sustain a flash burn - so no mats or carpet on the loading bench is clever as well.

[Edward]

such is life in the new millennium, and how the new world is going down down the tubes by pandering to the stupid at the expense of those with clear common sense.

Makes sense to me (TOO) Ed