357 Wadcutter vs Hollowpoint @ 1100 fps?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

We keep sheep and feral dogs have been a problem in the past. My 3" Sp101 is what I usually grab when I check on the animals. To date its been loaded with target level 38s (SWC). I figured I should work up some more appropriate loads after seeing how little damage the 38 load administered to a squirrel.

150g@1100fps shoots to the sights well and has a reasonable level of recoil. My thoughts are either a hollow point SWC or a DEWC seated out of the case. I have the Lee 158 SWC GC mold that could be cast soft and drilled out for the hollow point. I would need to buy a wadcutter mold. My thought was that a large shallow hollowpoint would expand quickly, possibly shedding the mushroom, leaving the base to penetrate deeply.

The largest of the dogs are probably 50-60 lbs. I saw a female yesterday heavy with milk, so a new batch is on the way:(

[cwtebay]

We keep sheep and feral dogs have been a problem in the past. My 3" Sp101 is what I usually grab when I check on the animals. To date its been loaded with target level 38s (SWC). I figured I should work up some more appropriate loads after seeing how little damage the 38 load administered to a squirrel.

150g@1100fps shoots to the sights well and has a reasonable level of recoil. My thoughts are either a hollow point SWC or a DEWC seated out of the case. I have the Lee 158 SWC GC mold that could be cast soft and drilled out for the hollow point. I would need to buy a wadcutter mold. My thought was that a large shallow hollowpoint would expand quickly, possibly shedding the mushroom, leaving the base to penetrate deeply.

The largest of the dogs are probably 50-60 lbs. I saw a female yesterday heavy with milk, so a new batch is on the way:(Well, I've gotta say I've seen my share of feral dogs to the great beyond. That said - use a rifle!! It's absolutely amazing how many times a "feral" dog will turn up with an owner and a vet bill if they manage to get home. Also, as a matter of the humane thing to do!! I use a 218 Bee in the daylight, a 22 Nosler with a thermal at night.

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[Bashby]

Well, I've gotta say I've seen my share of feral dogs to the great beyond. That said - use a rifle!! It's absolutely amazing how many times a "feral" dog will turn up with an owner and a vet bill if they manage to get home. Also, as a matter of the humane thing to do!! I use a 218 Bee in the daylight, a 22 Nosler with a thermal at night.

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Even though this doesnt answer your question, the man has a good point. At what range are you getting a shot off at these dogs?

Just occurred to me that you may be using a .357 rifle. Is that the case?

[cwtebay]

Even though this doesnt answer your question, the man has a good point. At what range are you getting a shot off at these dogs?

Just occurred to me that you may be using a .357 rifle. Is that the case?The OP said a 3" barrel I believe, hence my response. A rifle chambered in 357 is definitely adequate! As is any firearm that the user is proficient with at whatever range is in question. My reply is merely from experience.
Cheers

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[brewer12345]

I load a plated berry's DEWC over 4 grains of HP 38. It is fairly hot for a wadcutter and those things penetrate like crazy. If you stuck it in a 357 case and worked a load up slowly, it would do a lot of damage.

[tazman]

Well, I've gotta say I've seen my share of feral dogs to the great beyond. That said - use a rifle!! It's absolutely amazing how many times a "feral" dog will turn up with an owner and a vet bill if they manage to get home. Also, as a matter of the humane thing to do!! I use a 218 Bee in the daylight, a 22 Nosler with a thermal at night.


Silvercreek is correct in that you want the offending dog dead right there. If the body is on your property, near your livestock, you have proof that the dog was doing bad things.
If the dog gets away, you have no certain proof.
Here in Illinois, a landowner has the right to kill any dogs that are injuring his livestock.
I would also suggest a rifle in your chosen caliber.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

The 12 gauge with #4 buck goes if I know there is trouble. I recently aquired a bolt action 223 I'm going to set up for if I see trouble from the house. The 357 is just for everyday carry when I'm doing chores and such (small pasture, everything is done on foot). I feel confident that I could connect at 35 yards or so with the 357. Many of the dogs are habituated to humans as a few neighbors feel the need to feed them. We have an electric fence and many of the dogs that have gotten in are hesitant to pass back through, resulting in a running back and forth affair, creating shot opportunities.

[Drm50]

Have you every had a person own up to their dog being a stock killer? The owner of property where my camp is and his 3 neighbor's were loosing sheep. They didn't disappear they usually survived so tore up they had to be put down. Full grown ewes and lambs. Why weren't they eaten? Because dogs weren't hungry. Why were the attacks about the same time of day? Because that's when they got out. We staked out the pastures and used rifles on dogs. Said nothing about it and gave them a burial. That's SOP when dog has a collar. It avoids bad feelings.

[JM7.7x58]

In my state there will be no vet bill if the dog is harassing livestock. Know your state laws.

I chased a dog for about a half mile with a shovel after it killed three of my neighbors chicken’s.

JM


RCW 16.08.020

Dogs injuring stock may be killed.

It shall be lawful for any person who shall see any dog or dogs chasing, biting, injuring or killing any sheep, swine or other domestic animal, including poultry, belonging to such person, on any real property owned or leased by, or under the control of, such person, or on any public highway, to kill such dog or dogs, and it shall be the duty of the owner or keeper of any dog or dogs so found chasing, biting or injuring any domestic animal, including poultry, upon being notified of that fact by the owner of such domestic animals or poultry, to thereafter keep such dog or dogs in leash or confined upon the premises of the owner or keeper thereof, and in case any such owner or keeper of a dog or dogs shall fail or neglect to comply with the provisions of this section, it shall be lawful for the owner of such domestic animals or poultry to kill such dog or dogs found running at large.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

So, back to the orginal question-Wadcutter vs Hollowpoint?

[VMAX97]

We keep sheep and feral dogs have been a problem in the past. My 3" Sp101 is what I usually grab when I check on the animals. To date its been loaded with target level 38s (SWC). I figured I should work up some more appropriate loads after seeing how little damage the 38 load administered to a squirrel.

150g@1100fps shoots to the sights well and has a reasonable level of recoil. My thoughts are either a hollow point SWC or a DEWC seated out of the case. I have the Lee 158 SWC GC mold that could be cast soft and drilled out for the hollow point. I would need to buy a wadcutter mold. My thought was that a large shallow hollowpoint would expand quickly, possibly shedding the mushroom, leaving the base to penetrate deeply.

The largest of the dogs are probably 50-60 lbs. I saw a female yesterday heavy with milk, so a new batch is on the way:(This can't be serious. My buddy had a problem with a raccoon and it too 3x 357 mag shots. Get a bigger gun or at a lever 357.

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[cwtebay]

I'll own up to the basis of my conjecture. I am a livestock owner and a veterinarian. I get to see both sides. I have spent HOURS stitching udders back on ewes, and hours putting dogs back together after a botched shot. The laws are quite clear where I live, and that sucker had better be dead where the offence occurs, or at least proof that he was present. I've had livestock owners pay for dogs and dog owners pay for livestock damage. I am all for using what you have and knowing how to use it.
This subject is a hugely contested one. I am quite sure that we will see quite a bit of opinion here, my own included.

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[cwtebay]

Oh, and fwiw - a good Pyrenees or Kuvasz is worth every penny. They'll do a darn sight better than the best bullets at keeping your flock safe.

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[Idaho Mule]

I think wadcutter would be the better of the two. I use Lyman 358495 cast of 50/50 COWW/Soft or 16:1 lead/tin. Most likely will get holes on both sides of dog. JW

[KCSO]

I can see his point here, when you are working stock a rifle is not what you will have on hand. If you are hunting or thinning them out that is a different matter. I carry a 32-20 with heavy loads for the same purpose sometimes. That said I use to carry a 38 on a regular basis and the best all round load I found was the federal FBI load of a 158 HP lead nyclad. Seemed to expand bout every time and put down a lot of critters for me ground hogs to real hogs.

[Larry Gibson]

"I have the Lee 158 SWC GC mold that could be cast soft and drilled out for the hollow point."

Silvercreek Farmer

That bullet will do very nicely if cast of 30-1 or 40-1 alloy, lubed with a soft alox lube and GC'd of course. I'd use a 1/8" drill and drill the HP to the first drive band and then further HP it with a counter sink such as pictured as done with the 45 ACP bullet.

251232

[mdi]

I haven't shot any dogs but I do have a short range SD load for my 3" 38. One of my house guns is loaded with 150 gr. DEWC over max charges of W231, not +P. I've tried it out to 20-25 yards and it is accurate. Getting just under 900 fps and I think the flat face will do a lot of tissue damage. Depending on the distance and ability of the shooter that should do in a dog at 20-25 yards. But, if I were in that situation, I'd load up some fast 124 gr jacketed hollow points...

[fredj338]

Small light mass targets just aren't going to show much damage from any solid. Not a fan of drilled hp but you can buy LSWHP cheap enough. Use the cast lswc for practice & load up the cast LSWCHP for serious work.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Thanks to those that answered the question! I was able to cast up some 40/1 SWC and get them PC'ed, GC'ed and drilled out. I shot one into soaked magazines and it really expanded. Penetrated 10" or so. Retained 141 grains. Ran a test group at 1100 fps with Herco (selected for lower flash/bang vs blue dot). But got some fliers. Backed off the charge just a hair to bring them down to 1050 or so and I was able to shoot a 5" group at 35 yards, rested. Not spectacular, but minute of dog for sure. Still needs more testing, but not sure my eyes are much better than what I shot today. I might coat the boolts with LLA, just to see if it makes any difference. I've got some 2400 as well for a gentler push if need be.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Boolit cast from 40:1 on the left and hollow pointed. Boolit on the right cast from 50:50 pure:COWW, no additional tin, and hollowpointed. The 50:50 boolit petals sheared off and the base penetrated 2" further than the 40:1. Weight was 120 gr vs 140 for the 40:1.

[Thin Man]

Your photo shows you have a winner in either of these alloy combinations. The only thing to focus on now is finding that "right" powder charge to give you the group accuracy you need and feel good about the load. Well done.

[dverna]

Boolit cast from 40:1 on the left and hollow pointed. Boolit on the right cast from 50:50 pure:COWW, no additional tin, and hollowpointed. The 50:50 boolit petals sheared off and the base penetrated 2" further than the 40:1. Weight was 120 gr vs 140 for the 40:1.

You have answered your question, Good job!!!

[44Blam]

HP with soft lead.