Reduced loads

[tmatt]

From a newbie: I've just acquired a CVA Scout in .444 Marlin. Using loads for 240 grain and 310 grain cast bullets I've established loads for them. Usually I go to the range and "kill" paper. Looking on the internet I've found 240 gr. Unique 10.0 gr @ 1293 ft/s and 310 grain,10.0 Unique @ 1178 ft/s. Having never used Unique for a reduced load, do I need to put a filler in on top of the powder, and if so, what filler?

[Winger Ed.]

I'm not a fan of fillers in general.
That being said, If the load data in your book doesn't call for a filler, I wouldn't use it.

I've found that sheets of paper are pretty easy to kill.
I tune loads down for the best accuracy at the lower pressures when I do hunt them.

That save a few bucks on powder, does a good job, and reduces the stress & strain on the weapon.

I don't shoot a .444, but do a .45-70, which is sort of around in there similar to it.
Lots of folks use various pistol type powders, with great results in the big straight wall cases.
But I find myself coming back to minimal loads of stuff like IMR 4198 or 3031 with the 405 mold I use for it.

[pworley1]

Unique loads don't normally need a filler.

[Jniedbalski]

Use no filler at all with Unique.

[Hick]

Fillers come into the picture when you use reduced loads of moderate to slow burning powders. Powders such as unique are very fast-- no filler needed with the fast ones. If you have trouble finding Unique, powders such as HP-38, W231, and many others in the same fast burning category do well-- also without fillers. You can find powder burn rate charts on the internet. They are not precise, but give you a good picture of which are considered to be fast.

[Outpost75]

NEVER use fillers in straight-wall cases. You WILL ring the chamber. Fast-burners like Unique, Bullseye, TiteGroup, WST, Red Dot, 700-X all tolerate the free airspace and will give satisfactory results. Use .44 Magnum data for the same weight bullet in the .444 case as a guide and you won't get into any trouble. Yes, the velocity will be a bit lower in the larger case with reduced loading density, but the bullet WILL get out of the barrel.

[phantom22]

Also check out H4895 which can be loaded to 60% of max and trail boss which has a formula for use in all cartridges. The data can be found on the hodgdon website.

[georgerkahn]

I, too, 100% agree with others NO NO re using a filler over Unique. (Years back I tried a product called Puff-lon (?) as a filler, which only made a mess in spades! Yuck!) On to another "100%", I agree with the suggestion to try Trail Boss. Yes, I use the formula provided on the Hogdgon site, and it works very well for me in both pistol (.45 Colt) and "triple-4" -- the .444 Marlin.
BEST!
geo

[Larry Gibson]

Fillers come into the picture when you use reduced loads of moderate to slow burning powders. Powders such as unique are very fast-- no filler needed with the fast ones. If you have trouble finding Unique, powders such as HP-38, W231, and many others in the same fast burning category do well-- also without fillers. You can find powder burn rate charts on the internet. They are not precise, but give you a good picture of which are considered to be fast.

Concur with Hick.

I am a fan of the appropriate use of a filler.

I seldom disagree with Outpost75 but will on this topic. An appropriate filler is perfectly safe in straight walled cases and you will not ring the chamber with an appropriate filler using an appropriate filler such as is referenced in the quoted Hicks post. I've shot thousands of 45-70 loads with a Dacron filler in them and years ago also shot many in a 444 Marlin using a medium burning powder. It is with a wad that problems of "ringing" can happen, especially with faster burning powders.

However, I do agree with Outpst75 and others that with the fast burning powders mentioned, including Unique, for use in the 444 with 240 to 300+ gr cast bullets no filler should be used.

For the proper use of fillers refer to; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers