Need some help! on 308 WIn

[rmcc]

I am looking for a 308 "battle" rifle to add to my collection and to shoot. I have had a couple of H&K G3s in the past so am familiar with that platform. Have been looking at M1A, AR10, and Fn/FAL. Looking to have everyone here weigh in on the pros and cons. Thanks in advance for your input!!

rmcc

[Petrol & Powder]

I went down that path years ago and there are some outstanding Cold War era rifles that fit that description.

I eventually moved to other interests and sold/traded many of my .308 rifles but still have my M1A.

The FAL and all of its variants is one of easiest to find but it was never my favorite rifle. It really should have remained the smaller caliber it was originally designed for but NATO demanded 308 so that is what it became.

The H&K G3 was my favorite and I wished I had held onto those. The current G3 clones are just not quite the same quality (although some are better than others). A real H&K G3 or semi-auto variant, is going to set you back some real money.

The M1A is a fine rifle but probably the oldest technology (that could be a good thing) and they can still be found for reasonable sums of money. They aren't cheap but the AR craze has helped to keep the prices in check.

The M1A is often criticized for being a M1 with a detachable magazine and that's an oversimplification but the argument has some merit.
The M1A is capable of excellent accuracy and they are durable. The M1A is rather heavy.

The 7.62 NATO round gave way to the 5.56 before the Cold War ended and that pretty much ended the era of the 30 caliber battle rifle, so most of what you will be looking at will be NATO rifles from before the transition to 5.56mm: FAL, M1A, G3, Galil and maybe the Beretta BM59.

I'm very fond of the H&K roller locked G3 type rifles, I just wish the real H&K ones were not so expensive.

[Larry Gibson]

Had M14/M1As for years. Had lots of time on AR10s (original and newer) and FALs (Belgian, Canadian and South American), even own a couple.......don't anymore. Kept the M1As.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

All good, all soldier tested. Personal preference is M1A.

[Drm50]

I had M1a and HK. Both good rifles and I like the M1a better, because I had experience with M14. The HK did shoot a tad better with GI ball. I didn't like the brass being fluted in HK chamber. The M1a can be loaded for to improve accuracy without fooling with the gun. I bought mine when the were 1st out and they came with loading manual. All the accuracy loads they listed outshot GI ammo. I used 150gr bullets in my 308 hunting rifles. In the M1a manual they listed the Speer 130gr Hp over 47.0g IMR-4895 at 3000fps as one of the accuracy loads. It made a believer out of me. The M1a would shoot under 1" at 100yds with this load and I tried them out in my M70fw pre 64 and it became my standard 308 load.

[nun2kute]

The only grype I have about any of those is Price. So the only advice I can give you is .... Christmas is coming - I want, I want, I want ... ;);)

[LAGS]

I still have 2 of the HK 91 semi autos from back in '79 and '80.
I like them best over the M1a and FN or my friends AR10.
I was lucky and got the one brand new in '79 for $550.00 and the other at a steal from a guy that was moving back to California and couldn't take it back even though he had bought it there in 1980.
I guess once you move out of state and take your guns , they restrict what you can bring back in.
I got the second one for $500.00.
He also threw in 500 rounds of ammo and the case.
No way am I letting these go , even at today's market

[Adam Helmer]

rmcc,

As for .308 "Battle Rifles", my favorite will always be the three Match M14s I was issued while on the NH High Power Rifle Team. Since retirement, I found the best .308 rifles for me that were affordable and very accurate with my cast boolits. I was lucky to acquire both an Indian Jungle Carbine and an Indian Mk III in caliber .308 with 12-round magazines. Both were in NRA Excellent condition with pristine bores.

Both arms shoot to the same point of aim/point of impact with either my 150 grain J handloads and the Lee .312 185RN cast boolit at 100 yards. I think I paid $125 for the MkIII and $150 for the JC "clones." An added benefit with bolt .308 arms is I get to keep my Match brass that I salvaged from my days at Camp Perry.

Adam

[Petrol & Powder]

I really like the H&K 91 (semi-auto G3) and just wish they were not so pricey.

A lot of folks misunderstand the effects of the fluted chamber and think it harms the brass. It marks the brass but there is no harm in that. The H&K's are hard on brass from the violent ejection cycle but that isn't due to the fluted chamber.

The chamber flutes allow some gas to fill the space between the casing and the chamber walls so that a portion of the casing "floats" in the forward section of the chamber. The roller locking system requires a little bit of bolt head movement at the beginning of the cycle and without the flutes, the casing would be tightly adhered to the chamber walls at that point. The marks on the fired casings are cosmetic and don't harm the casing.

The G3 (H&K 91) is extremely reliable even when neglected and very dirty. There's no gas system to accumulate carbon, unburned powder or other debris. Like the inertia operated Benelli shotguns, all of the debris goes down the barrel and most of it goes out the muzzle.

One thing the G3 doesn't tolerate well is extremes in bullet weights or pressures. The G3 works amazingly well with NATO spec ammunition but you can't wander too far off the reservation in terms of bullet weight.

The rifles are also very accurate for a self-loading battle rifle. I think the close to in-line recoil coupled with a minimal amount of moving mass in the system; helps to make the rifles accurate. H&K also used very high quality steel in their barrels.

[LAGS]

My HK's will shoot just as accurate as my friends Match M1a's
And you are correct , they can be perticular with that ammo , but not as far as functioning just pin point accuracy..
They don't seem to like slugs over 168 or under 147.
So my match ammo loaded with 175 gr is strictly for my bolt guns.

[Winger Ed.]

I was among the last few Platoons at Parris Island that trained with the M-14.
Everybody that came there a couple weeks after I did were issued rat guns.

Since then, I've gotten just a rack grade Springfield M1-A.
For speed equipment, I added a bayonet to look cool, and a M-60 bipod 'cause I like it, and it is almost as steady as sandbags.
Beyond the personal attachment, I just like it. And its more accurate than I am with decent ammo.

It also does well with cast 180-190-ish boolits up near the top of their limits.
The action cycles slow, but it does it's job.

A buddy had a HK-something in .308.
He loved it, I liked it, but wouldn't trade my M1A for one.

[Adam Helmer]

I like the .308 and will always treasure my M14 Match days and trigger time. My two Indian .308 bolt guns ensues all my Match cases are retrieved for reloading.

Adam

[DukeConnors]

If you're only going to have one get the M1A. You won't regret it.

[Adam Helmer]

If you're only going to have one get the M1A. You won't regret it.

Duke,

I have two M1As, more Garands and other .308 arms I shoot all year round on my farm. In Winter, the M1As scatter brass under the snow while the bolt Indians allow me to keep my Match brass.

Adam

[RogerDat]

I like the .308 and will always treasure my M14 Match days and trigger time. My two Indian .308 bolt guns ensues all my Match cases are retrieved for reloading.

AdamWhile being a bolt gun, not an autoloader the Ishapore 308's mil-surps from India have a solid reputation for accuracy and durability. Prices are not too outrageous either. A bit heavy but if you don't anticipate carrying it extensively in the field... is weight in a rifle really all that bad of a thing? It is a "battle rifle" to the extent it was made for military use to chamber the NATO round.

[Adam Helmer]

While being a bolt gun, not an autoloader the Ishapore 308's mil-surps from India have a solid reputation for accuracy and durability. Prices are not too outrageous either. A bit heavy but if you don't anticipate carrying it extensively in the field... is weight in a rifle really all that bad of a thing? It is a "battle rifle" to the extent it was made for military use to chamber the NATO round.

Roger,

Thank you for your kind assessment of my Ishapore bolt .308 rifles. If all one wants is a target arm, the Indian arms will serve well.

I own far too many Ishpores, per my wife, but then what does she know?? For less than BIG money for Gas guns, bolt .308 Rifles are available. Also, bolt gun users get to keep their brass.

Adam

[Winger Ed.]

In Winter, the M1As scatter brass under the snow while the bolt Indians allow me to keep my Match brass.

When I'm out somewhere and want to keep some really processed brass, I close the gas port and hand cycle it.
Not quite as handy as a bolt gun, but it works.

[starnbar]

M1A and M1 Garands are my keepers got a couple of 303 brit enfields but US is my forte.

[WinchesterM1]

I have 2 M1As and 3 Cetmes, 2 FALs a AR10 and a Vepr in 308. I prefer the FALs to EVERYTHING!! I think the FAL is the best battle rifle made in 308. The adjustable gas piston mags are dirt cheap and they are 10x easier to disassemble then anything else,(slide a lever over 1/2” and you’re gun pops open) mine have great triggers and shoot around 1.5-1.75” at 100 with cast.
As far as brass I can get it to trickle out of the action, not work the action, or to fling them in the next state. My next vote would be the Vepr! Talk about a smooth shooting rifle! Mine has a 16” barrel that can shoot extremely fast and controllable burst in semi, how ever the groups are around 2.5-3.5 at 100 yards

[country gent]

In 308 / 7.62 I have my 2 Match grade m1as and a garand rebarreled in 308. All three are very accurate with most loads. The M1As can get pricey depending on how built up they are ( front and rear lugs, bolted in, Krieger, Obermeyer barrels, heavy stocks, tuned triggers. ect). A low end garand purchased with barreling in mind ( poor to shot out barrel) and a douglas 308 medium heavy 4-groove barrel timed in and fitted. Getting a grand barrel is a little more than a bolt gun as for best accuracy the barrel needs to be timed head spaced then the splines fitted and timed. then bed action in. Clint Fowler had a 3 lug set up to control recoil better and increase bedding life. A garand in 308 can be a great shooter.

I converted my AR 10 shortly after I bought it it now wears 2 upper a 243 and a 22-250.

[drac0nic]

I don't have a 308 AR-10 but I do have a 243 win one. I like it well enough. I have a CETME I built I need to fix and re-test though. The nice thing about either is the mags for a lot of the other 308 platforms are kinda spendy if you want a few of em.

I was really tempted to do the 22-250. How's that work if you don't mind me asking?

[Lloyd Smale]

my opinion is ar10 hands down. I just put another one together with psa parts and have less 650 bucks into it and that includes a 3lb drop in trigger. My other psa ar10 will easily shoot sub moa and doesn't miss a beat if you use magpul mags. Bang for the buck theres no comparison. Any of the others will set you back twice as much or even more and probably wont be as accurate. had a cetme for a while It was a bargain for what you got but it tore up brass and wasn't near as accurate. It did go bang every time though. but at that time they were 500 bucks and the ar10s were close to a grand. Today ar10s have dropped in price and add that to the fact a dollar is worth less then it was 10 years ago and there hands down the best bang for the buck.

[Love Life]

I vote AR10. I have one with a collapsible buttstock and 16 inch barrel. Shoots 1.5 MOA out to 800 yards for 10 shot groups using the Hornday 168 gr BTHP bullet, LC LR brass, and BLC-2. I load it in large quantities on my Dillon.

I prefer the platform I have because it is compact, easily deployable, mag-pul mags are cheap, and it's accurate enough for it's intended role.

The M1A has a wayer higher cool factor!!

[Texas by God]

With issue sights; the M1A is my choice. With a scope; the AR10’s are amazing. As a young man I lusted after a Sig AMT but never had the investment capital to get one before they were banned from import. I did get to shoot the HK91, FN fal, and M1A extensively and one fine afternoon with a select fire M14 planted the M1A seed in my mind. My nephew’s Springfield Armory Scout is a neat carbine.