Round ball size for modified choke

[ShotgunShayne]

Hello
First thanks for the 5 months of reading and knowledge everyone. This is the first idea I haven't found an answer to on this site. Looking to put together a roundball load for my 12 gauge with a modified choke. Trying to find the right size ball and a wad to put it in. Any ideas?
Thanks
Shayne

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Shotgun Shayne, I like your name just right to be a shotgun fan ! !
We do not have too many choices for RB for 12 ga.
The RB sizes are .662, .678, .690 and .735 and nothing in between so just stick with .662 and buy different wads so you can try pushing them through backwards to check for fiction fit of say 4 to 10 lbs pressure through your modified choke and once you find one then go ahead and start loading that combo for accuracy for your gun.
If you are serous about loading then please order .125 - 16 ga and .125 20 ga nitro cards to go below the RB in wad as some wads need 16 ga while others need 20 ga.

https://i.imgur.com/CtlOdHK.jpg
Best regards.

Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[rancher1913]

with your modified choke I dont think I would use anything bigger than buckshot, dont think a large slug ball would be very accurate but I could be wrong.

[longbow]

You might get away with a 0.678" RB in relatively thin petal wad.

Its best to check muzzle diameter then the "rule of thumb" is that the RB+petal thickness isn't more than about 0.003" over muzzle diameter.

Having said that, I found that I got very good accuracy using a cloth patched 0.662" RB in wad. These I loaded up with powder and shotcup then pushed a cloth patched 0.662" RB inside much like loading a muzzleloader. To determine patch thickness I took a ball and wad then mic'd to get the diameter then picked a cloth that would result in slightly over bore diameter uncompressed then did a push through the barrel test.

These were shot through cylinder bore not a choked gun but my thinking is that if you used the 0.662" RB that leaves enough room for the cloth patch with most standard wads I have seen so you can adjust the cloth thickness to suit your modified choke for push through with patched ball in wad. The cloth will provide a bit of "give" as well.

Alternately you can use any RB size that will fit through the choke and put a donut wad in the bottom of the shotcup or use a BPI brush wad. The donut wad/brush wad should keep the RB centered through the bore and choke. That would allow use of 0.662" RB, 0.678" RB or 0.690" RB, all readily available, but the only one Lee has is the 0.690" RB if you are looking for inexpensive mould. 0.690" RB is probably the biggest you will get through a modified choke. A 0.715" RB might fit though but best to check muzzle diameter. Lyman makes all these mould sizes.

You can use 1 oz. to 1 1/8 oz. birdshot or slug load data for these RB's ~ 0.662" is 1 oz. in pure lead and 0.690" is about 1 1/8 oz. Lots of load data for these weights.

Oh... and for best results with standard shotcups use a 16 ga. or 20 ga. nitro card wad in the bottom of the shotcup or it will try to wrap itself around the ball! I use a small scoop of COW under the ball as well. The nitro card wad would work under a donut wad but not in a brush wad.

Longbow

[gpidaho]

I've found the Donut wads from BPI hard to come by, always out of stock. I punch the centers out of X12X gas seals to make my own. Gp

[ShotgunShayne]

You guys rock all good advice thanks. I chopped a tps wad so I can use the cup on the bottom to center sub gauge round balls. Then fill with buffer seemed to work pretty well. Gonna try the cloth patch now. Also putting together a .490 rb triple load. Any body got any weird loads that work well? .690 rb doubles , buck and ball loads?

[longbow]

Take a look with "Search" for Faustus buck and ball loads.

I've tried a double 0.662" RB load in 2 3/4" hulls with moderate success but gas seals failed on CSD wads. James Gates (Dixie Slugs) advice for his Tri-Ball load is to use Precision Reloading's 12 Ga. 3" Steel Shot Wads (100 Wads) Item #: TUPRW123 https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=TUPR&i=W123

That is for 3 x 0.600" RB's in 3" hulls. You can search for "Tri-Ball" for details.

He claimed that no other wad would take the abuse. From my experience with 2 x 0.662" RB loads I can say that CSD wads were not particularly successful. I will be ordering some of Precision Reloading's wads for the next 2 ball test.

With large multi ball loads be very careful! The balls can "wedge" in the bore and I have read of bulged barrels due to this. Also, the balls should be hardened as in oven heat treated so they don't distort and "mush". Best to read up on the Dixie Slugs Tri-Ball loading procedure before playing. I would worry about 2 x 0.490" RB's wedging unless they are stacked in a tube so they can't wedge.

I do have a recipe ("Deerslayer's 2 ball load" IIRC) off Shotgun World for a 2 x 0.690" RB load in 3" hulls but I have not tried it... yet.

Longbow

[Petander]

Greeting from Finland and welcome onboard,Shayne!

Svarog has a .678 ball mold, I'll need to get one even though I'm mostly a 20 gauge patient. Now that winter is here,my shotgun experiments will start again. I have a short range nearby that I frequent in winter. I like snow,lots of slugs to pick up in spring.

[ShotgunShayne]

Longbow
Yes cast water quenched and powder coated for hardness. Working on a sleeve to keep the triball load tight inside a tps wad. I will check out Dixie slugs thanks

[ShotgunShayne]

Petander I'm gearing up for a long winter aswell��

[ShotgunShayne]

Those steelshot wads look very similar to bpi tps wads I'm using

[longbow]

Petander:

I thought you were a die hard Mihec mould guy! Mihec has 0.678" RB moulds in stock! 2 cavity brass... what's not to like?

I'd have one except I already have a 0.678" RB mould.

Yes, snow is good! I like picking up slugs and boolits in the spring and sometimes find them right after shooting as well.

Longbow

[Petander]

Petander:

I thought you were a die hard Mihec mould guy! Mihec has 0.678" RB moulds in stock! 2 cavity brass...

Longbow

Oh boy I didn't know about Mihec RB molds! And a double!

I like Mihec very much,thanks for the heads up.


EDITH: I checked Mihec site, yes that double cavity 678 mold is the thing to get. Mihec quality is fantastic.They have 15 in stock right now.

[longbow]

And did you see the 0.732" RB mould?

If I didn't already have 0.662" and 0.678" RB moulds and 0.735" RB mould I would have bought both and would still like both. I may think about the 0.732" mould as I like full bore slugs/balls. I think another thou or two (0.733"/0.734") would have been better though. Not only would that fatten the hull up a bit but I have found that even 0.735" RB's from smoothbore tend to roll a bit as the enter the bore as indicated by a skewed "belt" around them when recovered. A cup under the ball might solve that and I took to using a small scoop of COW under the ball. Can't recall if those that indicated rolling had COW under or not. I did get some very good accuracy from 0.735" RB's though generally running 3" to 4" at 50 yards and some pretty nice 100 yard groups too except inevitably a flier or two would open group sup and some groups were large as well. 100 yards from smoothbore is pushing it some.

But I digress.

I wouldn't try a 0.735" RB though any choke though I know a guy who accidentally shot one through a full choked gun. He said there was no damage but I don't think I'd want to be doing that. The squeeze from 0.730" (bore diameter) to about 0.690" is substantial! The old Paradox slugs were squeeze about that much though and in shotgun like barrels so maybe? I have an old single shot I may tie down and run a few through its full choked barrel to see what happens.

I'll say that I think a sub bore RB in shotcup that just fits through the choke or a hollow base or ribbed slug designed to compress through choke are the best ways to go though.

Longbow

[gpidaho]

Shayne: I don't know for sure just how much choke can safely be used with a .730+ round ball but my mould drops larger than some and I powder coat,end result is .737. My Maverick over-under was sold to me as cylinder over cylinder but in fact slugs .725 (skeet to me) I've had no trouble with the .012 swage but so far that's the largest I've tried. I don't believe I'd be comfortable with .737 through modified. It may work fine. We'll see how longbow's test mentioned above works out. Gp

[Petander]

My Benelli M3 S90 barrel is fixed cyl and slugs 722.

[ShotgunShayne]

Gp
I was more looking for a smaller ball sleeved in a wad that will give decent accuracy in my modified choke so I can shoot shot buckshot and single projectile all with one gun I love my old Remingtons. Because its smaller and lighter I can put some speed on it without having to much recoil

[longbow]

ShotgunShayne:

If you are looking for RB in shotcup it is hard to go wrong with either:

- 0.662" in thick petal shotcup (steel shot shotcups), cloth patched or on a donut wad
- 0.678" in standard shotcup ~ they fit some shotcups well but are a little undersize in my current Winchester yellow wads so need a wrap of paper in the shotcup first

In my case the patching/paper wrap is for slightly oversize cylinder bore at 0.731" so check your choke for snug through the choke fit.

Whenever loading round balls in shotcups use a nitro card wad of 16 ga. or 20 ga. under the ball. I like 16 ga. but they are big for some wads. With either of those RB's you can use any 1 oz. to 1 1/8 oz. slug load data.

0.662" RB moulds are a Lyman standard as is 0.678" which is also available from Mihec Molds in a beautiful 2 cavity brass mould... as I posted for Petander. The Russian Svarog moulds are also available in both those sizes and again in 2 cavity I believe. So there are some options.

Some have had success with 0.690" RB's in shotcups but I am not one of them. The 0.690" RB requires quite thin wad petals... or an oversize bore with "normal" petal thickness. A donut wad should work too though I have not tried that. 0.690" moulds are also a Lyman standard and Lee makes then as well so the Lee is the budget mould at about $25.00.

Lots of options!

Longbow

[ShotgunShayne]

That's what I was looking for sir. thank you .662 sounds like the winner go na order up a mold. Do you think you could go any smaller and get decent accuracy? And another question longbow what is your favorite shotgun powder and why? Where do you order your stuff from ? I get my reloading supplies from bilozir.net hes just outside Calgary.
Shayne

[longbow]

Well, as long as you can keep the ball centered and not spinning I suppose any size should work. The trick is finding load data. Typical slug load data goes to 7/8 oz. for Lee and Buckbuster and maybe a couple of others but not too much lighter than that. BPI has some high velocity shot load data for light payloads that may work but I think 3/4 oz. is as light as they go for 12 ga.

The 0.662" RB is a pretty handy size and weight as is the 0.678" RB. In pure lead the 0.662" is one oz. so a little lighter in WW (about 419 grs. by my calculation) so pretty much any 1 oz. to 1 1/8 oz.slug or shot load data can be used.

So far for slugs I like Blue Dot. Having said that, Blue Dot like heavy payloads and/or hefty powder charges. Lee load data lists BD with the 1 oz. slug and in large amounts (49 grs.!). I've used BD under 1 oz. slugs but not to that level of charge and found that it burned a bit dirty but seemed to work well enough even so. For faster powder under 1 oz. to 1 1/8 oz. slugs I use Unique and Green Dot for Lee 7/8 oz. slugs. I was advised that SR4756 is better than Blue Dot for some applications but so far I prefer Blue Dot for heavy slugs of say 550 grs. on up to 800 grs. or so.

I have pretty limited access to reloading supplies locally. I used to go to Washington state to buy my reloading supplies but 9/11 and Homeland security put an end to that. I can get some powders locally but not much else. I have to order in.

I am still using up some components I bought from Will Bilozir many years ago! I will be putting an order for wads and possibly hulls from Will Bilozir shortly.

Longbow

[ShotgunShayne]

Awesome thanks again

[longbow]

You are welcome. I hope it all helps.

Also, before you go ordering and spending lots of money you might want to look through a few threads ~ mostly Ajay and turbo1889 threads. If you haven't seen them you should peruse the posts. There is lots of good info on slug wad fit, load suggestions, etc. Unfortunately it looks like Ajay used Photobucket and many early pics are blurry now. turbo used to post a lot with lots of good load info moreso than slug/wad fit as Ajay did.

Also, your use and expected accuracy may determine the best choices for you. About the easiest to cast and load are round balls in my opinion and round balls that drop into shotcups are real easy to load but... if they fit too tight they pinch petals and accuracy drops off, if they are too loose accuracy drops off. My good RB loads tend to run 3" to 4" at 50 yards and generally hold up not badly to maybe 75 yards. If I just drop a 0.678" RB into my current Winchester wads they are a bit sloppy and accuracy isn't so good, not bad but not nearly as tight or consistent groups. Plenty good for "plinking", ringing a gong at 50 yards or bear defense up close, and probably good enough for hunting to 40 or 50 yards. If I want tighter groups I have to work at it a bit more and get better ball/wad to bore fit.

Cloth patching the 0.662" RB's is extra work and of course takes time so not something I want to do for "plinking" rounds. I'll take a lower level of accuracy and faster reloading when I just want to blast lead and roll rock or blow up water jugs.

In a smoothbore exact fit isn't real critical as long as the ball stays centered in the bore and a donut wad might just do that as well as cloth patching but should be easier and faster, or a brush wad, or...? Then there are steel shot wads and the 0.662" RB is a nice fit in CSD wads and I am sure some others (thick petals).

Anyway, there are lots of options depending on your goals, expected accuracy, component selection available, etc. I'd say its hard to go wrong with the 0.662" RB though. In the end you might want a couple of RB moulds to suit different applications or components.

Have fun!

Longbow