Babbit for Bullets??

[Grampie not Grumpie]

I am brand new member and just getting into bullet casting. I am a retired elevator mechanic and I have several ignots of babbit. It was used for pouring into elevator cable shackles and also to pour bearings on large elevator machines. Does anybody have an idea as to its hardness?? Is it about the same as wheel weights??

Also, where do you get other alloys to mix with wheel weights, and to what ratio do you use??

As you can see I am pretty uninformed.

Thanks,

Grampie

[BABore]

Your babbit hardness will all depend on its type. There's all kinds out there. Lead based, tin based, high speed nickel, you name it. Most here use babbit as a tin source, so it is used at 1-2% with wheel weights. Quite frankly, I've never found the need to add anything to WW's to get perfect fillout. In fact I mix my WW's 50/50 with pure lead for even a better shooting alloy. Straight WW's will drop air cooled boolits at 10-13 bhn. If you water drop them or oven heat treat them they will go from 26-32 bhn. The wide range of hardness values are due to the different WW compositions. They vary by brand and region. 50% WW's and 50% Pb will air cool at 9-10 bhn and heat treated it will go 20-22 bhn. With both alloys, allow at least 2 weeks for the hardening to stabilize. Longer is even better. Even air cooled boolits should rest for several days to a week before being shot for accuracy. IMO several months or more is even better. Heat treated boolits should be sized immediately. Any delay of more than a day will destroy the hardness. You can also size prior to hardening if you want. Gas checks have been known to pop off when boolits are oven heat treated, then quenched. Best to size and check after HT. Also, known undersized boolits can be cast and water dropped, then left for several months to cure and grow. The antimony crystals will increase the boolit size by several thousandths. They can then be oven heat treated again, quenched, and then sized to a usable diameter. Very useful for those bore ride noses that only ride air.

[cbrick]

Welcome to the forum Grampie,

Here's a link for you, click on "grades of lead" and there should be some info that will help you out.

Cast Bullet Alloys (http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm)

Rick

[runfiverun]

easy there BA
i am not sure he has even poured a boolit yet, lets start him out a bit slower.
as was said above babbit comes in many grades.
i try and melt some and see at what temp it will melt at and how low of a temp it will stay melted at. gives you an idea of your tin content.
you can pick up ww ingots here sometimes on the evil-bay some times.
you can p.m. idaho elk hunter and see if he still has some available. expect to pay about 1.00 per pound for it. you will get a bit over 50-158 gr boolits from a lb.

welcome to the forum not grumpy

[cajun shooter]

My advise would be to buy the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. This forum has a host of very smart people that will go out of the way to help you but you also need to do some reading on your part. Welcome and if I may warn you; this is a very addictive hobby. You must have a very loving and understanding other half. You may want to just buy some WW from a source and try casting that to see if it's for you. Take Care

[Grampie not Grumpie]

I have on order molds for .44 Mag. and .38Spec./.357Mag., ignot mold, Alox lube, etc. and Lee's handbook on reloading. I have scrounged 25 - 30 lbs. of wheel weights and melted them down into about 2# disks. I just haven't decided about the babbit.

I have a Ruger Vaquero .44 mag. on layaway at a local store and should get it before Christmas. It is what has got me into casting. I have been reloading for sometime.

I appreciate all the imput.

Grampie

[Tom W.]

As I've stated numerous times, I've used Nickle Babbitt for years, both straight and mixed with either pure lead or w/w... Straight makes very hard bullets...and usually a bit light.

[badgeredd]

I am brand new member and just getting into bullet casting. I am a retired elevator mechanic and I have several ignots of babbit. It was used for pouring into elevator cable shackles and also to pour bearings on large elevator machines. Does anybody have an idea as to its hardness?? Is it about the same as wheel weights??

Also, where do you get other alloys to mix with wheel weights, and to what ratio do you use??

As you can see I am pretty uninformed.

Thanks,

Grampie

Grampie,

I started this casting thing a few months ago so I am not an expert. That said, I have used a fair amout of babbitt (railroad journal) and it seems to work well for me. I am now alloying it with WW to kinda stretch my babbitt supply out. I believe the babbitt I am using is high tin content & it seems to have at some copper; and it DOES improve the WW lead (for me) in casting caracteristics. As others have said though it depends on the alloy of the babbitt. I would guess (and that IS a GUESS) that since you said it is used for bearings, it has at least some tin in it as it is likely a lowspeed bearing babbit. I have been using 4:1 (WW:babbitt) alloy lately and it seems to make good boolits. I'll likely change to a 5:1 ratio soon to see how it works. I'd try a few different ratios until you are satisfied you are getting good casting characteristics and it is economically comfortable. Since I have a decent supply of the babbitt and am now getting WWs regularly, I am trying to extend my babbit supply out to last me. I am also caching as much WW lead as I can so I am in good shape when the lead WW supply dries up. The end objective to have boolit material left over when the good Lord calls me to the range beyond. FWIW!

Edd

PS...about the hardness, maybe you can find someone near you that can give you an idea as to its BHN; mine is in the 16 to 18 BHN range.

[KennethF]

Grampie and others, how can you identify babbit? I was at the metal salvage yard today buying wheel weights and say some good size, thick lead aloy plates about 1" thick. Could these be babbit and is there any simple way to know if they are. They are very hard by the thumb nail method of testing and a gray color like wheel weights are.

Thanks for your replys, KennethF

[John Boy]

...is there any simple way to know if they are.
Ken - No. It's a tough call by just looking at it unless it has a foundry marking. Here's some types:
Babbitt, Coppered
74.5% Lead, 14.75% Antimony, 10% Tin, 0.25% Copper and 0.5% Arsenic
Babbitt, Lead
80.25% Lead, 14.75% Antimony and 5% Tin
Babbitt Metal, Grade 1
95% Tin, 4.5% Copper, and 4.5% Antimony
Babbitt Metal, Grade 5
65% Tin, 18% Lead, 2% Copper, and 15% Antimony
Babbitt, Tin
89% Tin, 7.5% Antimony, 3.5% Copper

One trick is to drop a piece of babbit on concrete. If it rings - tin based. If it thuds - lead based. But what else is in it - foundry mark and do a Google or have to have it analyzed because there are so many alloy mixes of babbit which are used for special purposes. But if it is tin based - grab it. Worth more than lead based if the price is right

Read this which will explain the many alloy mixes ... http://www.alchemycastings.com/lead-products/babbitt.htm

[JIMinPHX]

I got a little babbitt off an elevator guy in NYC a while back. Apparently, his company repours the babbitt bearings in traction elevators when they get old & sloppy, so he had some kicking around. That stuff was pretty hard. 4 parts soft lead to 1 part babbitt gave boolits that were on the hard end of what you’d want to load for pistol rounds. I don't have any left & I don't remember the BNH.

[shotman]

you would have the lead babbit. if it was used in cable heads. That makes good boolits by its self is too hard for muzzle loader The tin /high copper is used in bearings and would bond to a alumiumn mold . It would be a good investment to get a lead thermometer about $30 but is well worth it. I got the idea of casting some zinc for some HARD boolits. Zinc melts at around 900 or close. I had a single Lee mold . Made about 6 boolits. Now I have a set of handles. AL melts at around 1000 rick

[truckboss]

sorry don't maen to hijack,but what kind of babbit do they use in the old model t and older engines?