Best dies for 9mm

[Bashby]

Putting an order together and need 9mm dies for cast boolits. Is one better than the other? Should I get the Lee factory crimp die set?

[mto7464]

I have redding and lee. I like the redding the most but the lee's work. what press you using?

[Bashby]

Just using an old Lyman inline single stage for now

[Wheelguns 1961]

I prefer rcbs dies, but I have all kinds. They all work. In 9mm, I use a lee universal expanding die with a noe expander plug for loading oversized cast bullets. I think I also use a redding taper crimp die in 9mm. Can’t remember right now.

[mto7464]

The taper crimp die on my reddings is what I like about them. I have never tried the factory crimp die but would try one if I did not have the ones I already have.

[lightman]

Most of my dies are RCBS, Redding and Dillon. I like the Dillon dies for pistol calibers. Someone else said they all work.

[Martin Luber]

Most any sizing die will work for jacketed but few work well for lead. They typically make the case too small and the slug gets damaged in seating. I use the Lee FCP minus the guts, but as a sizer. You can jimmie up a sizing pin to fit it if you're clever. I think my expander and flare plug is .357 diameter. Cases matter too, most are tapered inside limiting seating depth before you bulge. Federal are straight wall. I have had good results with 3.0 of BE. Good luck

[sigep1764]

Dillon. The new ones have a flippable seating stem, carbide rings, are taper crimps.

[ioon44]

I use the new Hornady 9 mm dies with my 550, I like this set up better than other 9 mm dies I have used.
I would never use the Lee factory crimp die set.

[Bashby]

Since Im planning on casting .358 bullets and powder coating would it be of benefit to get a little downsizing from the factory crimp? (Im ASSuming the PC adds enough thickness that it needs to be accounted for.) i slugged my barrel and came up with .356 or a hair under, but all I have handy is a crappy dial caliper. I do have a micrometer but it is .3-1.3" and I dont have a way to calibrate it.

Edit: I bought a micrometer, reslugged the barrel, (cant find my original slug) came up with .3563"

Edit #2 dont know if I measured wrong or what, but my slug measures .3555"

[skeet1]

I prefer Lee dies. They do the same job very well and cost much less.

Ken

[PbHurler]

You might consider adding in an expander die for a 38 S&W. I size my 9MM's to .357", the Redding "factory" 9mm expander seemed to not expand the mouths enough, I suspect it is sized for jacketed bullets. The 38 S&W expander fixed the issue of my cases sizing down my cast boolits too much.

My 38 S&W expander die is a Lyman.

Just my 2 cents

[Bashby]

You might consider adding in an expander die for a 38 S&W. I size my 9MM's to .357", the Redding "factory" 9mm expander seemed to not expand the mouths enough, I suspect it is sized for jacketed bullets. The 38 S&W expander fixed the issue of my cases sizing down my cast boolits too much.

My 38 S&W expander die is a Lyman.

Just my 2 cents

Interesting. I do have a set of rcbs .38/.357.

[Phlier]

You might consider adding in an expander die for a 38 S&W. I size my 9MM's to .357", the Redding "factory" 9mm expander seemed to not expand the mouths enough, I suspect it is sized for jacketed bullets. The 38 S&W expander fixed the issue of my cases sizing down my cast boolits too much.

My 38 S&W expander die is a Lyman.

Just my 2 cents


Interesting. I do have a set of rcbs .38/.357.

The expander die PbHurler is talking about is 38 S&W, NOT .38 Special or .357 Magnum. :)

I use a .38 S&W expander for my .358 diameter 9mm boolits, and I love it. Really helps to prevent the 9mm case from swaging down the boolit to too small of a diameter.

[osteodoc08]

Love Dillon dies

Your budget will guide the answer.

[mdi]

I have 9mm reloading dies from 3 different manufacturers (bargains, freebies, etc.) and I don't think you'd go wrong with any from the major die manufacturers. But, and this is my opinion only; don't bother with a Lee FDC for handgun cartridges. There is no need to resize the cartridge after seating/crimping. If there are bulges on the cartridge or it doesn't plunk correctly, find out why and fix it. Mostly just a die adjustment will suffice...

[Bashby]

I ended up getting the 4 die set from Lee. I figured the factory crimp die might be needed at some point.
Edited my post above with results of slug test. .3563"

Edit: Measured and reslugged again and got .3555. Im going with that reading as correct.

[Phlier]

I ended up getting the 4 die set from Lee. I figured the factory crimp die might be needed at some point.
Edited my post above with results of slug test. .3563"
Hey Bashby, I think you'll have great results with the Lee set. I have a bunch of 9mm dies... two sets of Dillon (used in my 550 and 1050), a set of RCBS (used them in my old Rockchucker), and a full set of Lee that I use in my Lee Classic Turret press.

I just wanted to make sure that you knew there is a difference in the expanding dies that guys have been recommending.... You DO NOT want the expander die from 38 Special/357 Magnum, you want the expander die from 38 S&W. This part right here: http://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-pm-expan-plug-38-s-and-w.html That's the exact die I ordered from the exact place I ordered it from. :)

It'll expand your case more than the expander die included with your Lee 9mm set, and also a bit more than 38 Special. The part number that I linked you to is a powder through expander, so you can use it either in a stand-alone expander die, or you can use it with your powder-through die... you can take out the powder through expander plug in your new set of Lee 9mm dies, and just drop the 38 S&W one in.

IMO, it's pretty important to use the 38 S&W expander, especially since your barrel slugs out at .356. That expander will prevent the cartridge walls from swaging down your boolit to less than the desired .358 diameter you'll be wanting for that barrel.

When you're getting all set up, load up a test round, then pull the boolit. Measure the base of it and make sure it's not getting swaged down below .358. If it is, increase the depth of the expander.

If you have some military brass, you'll want to make sure to do the above test with it, as military brass typically has thicker case walls and has a tendency to swage boolits down more than typical 9mm brass does.

As to the Lee FCD, you'll hear guys here swear by it, and others swear at it. IME, the only time I have ever had a problem using the FCD is with military brass. Occasionally, the FCD with military brass will swage the boolit down below the desired diameter. But IME, it only happens with the military brass, and only occasionally. Other guys will say that it happens all the time, while another group of guys say they never have any problems with the FCD at all.

I *do* use the FCD for cast boolits, and have never had any problems with it, except for military brass. But I don't have much of that anyway, so it's really not a problem. :) Give it a try, and see how it works for you. :)

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention.... not only do you want to pull a boolit and measure the base of it, but you'll also want to verify that you have enough neck tension, too. Take a finished round and measure the OAL. Then press the tip of the boolit into something like the edge of your reloading bench, and push pretty hard. Then measure the OAL again. It should be the same. If it is shorter, you'll need to make adjustments so that you're getting better neck tension. There's a window you're shooting for here... you don't want the case so small that it swages down the boolit diameter, but you don't want the case so large that you're not getting adequate neck tension.

[Hanzy4200]

RCBS all the way. I cut my teeth on a set of RCBS dies and they are still running strong. Lee's will save a few dollars, but there's a reason. Not saying they are no good, I own probably 8 or so Lee sets, but the RCBS are superior. No Hornady experience. Dillion is to expensive unless you are a OCD shooter.

[Walks]

Lyman for anything I load cast bullets in. The M-die is the best expander die on the market I've been using them since the early 1960's.
RCBS and Redding make great dies. C-H make GREAT dies if ya need an odd caliber or just want REALLY GREAT DIES.

Lee I have no use for, bought or was given die sets in .32S&W, .44Russian & .38S&W. They were a mishmash of .32auto, .44Spl and .38Super/9mm&.38Spl. Friend bought a .44-40 crimp Die from Midway. Didn't work, turns out the die was actually .44Mag. Called to complain, wanted me to mail receipt and die back to them at My expense. Just gave it away.
Their New 2cav molds work & 6cav molds are all right, and the push thru sizers are ok.

Hear Lee's new press is a pretty neat new tool, looking forward to hearing about it, Hope they are Good things.

dillon burned me on a 450 35yrs ago, I gave them another chance on the sq deal when they came out. powder measure is CRUD.

[Bashby]

Thanks for all the help guys. Thanks for clearing up the 38 special vs s&w, I glazed right over that.

Cast my first boolits last night and got what look like 200 keepers and 50 culls. :p

I measured my slug again last night and it either shrank by .001" or I measured it wrong the first time somehow. I made the slug by melting down some splitshot in a 9mm casing, pulling it, swaging it, then driving it through. I guess its possible it shrank. Thoughts? I need to order a boolit resizer and was going to get a .358, now I wonder if I should get .357. Guess I could slug it again.

[Bashby]

What about seating the swc with the round seating die that came with the Lee set? Dont I need a flat surface to get consistent seating?250970

Some internet searching suggests to use hot glue or epoxy to make a custom seating die. Im leaning towards doing this.

[kevin c]

With some flat point 9mm designs, I noticed that the rim of the flat contacted the ogive of the round nose seating stem concentrically, and I could get consistent seating depth. It most certainly did not work with every design, and if there is any significant run out in the die, it's a no go.

I have used a custom molded seating stem for my new favorite 9mm cast design, a round nose. Following recommendations I read here, I put a dab of JB Weld in the cleaned stem and screwed it into the die body, then ran an oil lubricated good round into it on the ram, letting it sit until cured. Trimming the flash and redrilling the vent hole left me a stem that helped solve the tilt and crush and run out issues I was having with my set up.

I learned the hard way to be sparing with the JB Weld and liberal with the lube: the least aggravating problem is gluing the boolit to the stem, and it only gets worse from there...

[Bashby]

My slug size changing was bugging me, so I slugged it again and Im coming up with .3555". I guess I read the mic wrong. Now Im torn on the resizer I should get, .357 or .358.

[kevin c]

Sizing to .357 is common for cast 9mm, and works for me. Of course, that's just a rule of thumb/the conventional wisdom, and in my particular case the boolits are going through polygonally rifled Glock barrels that I didn't bother to slug, so YMMV.

[Phlier]

My slug size changing was bugging me, so I slugged it again and Im coming up with .3555". I guess I read the mic wrong. Now Im torn on the resizer I should get, .357 or .358.

I'd start with .357, but don't be surprised if you end up needing to go up to .358. Lee push through sizing dies are cheap, though, so there's not too much sting involved if you have to get a second one.

.357 sized boolits work just fine in my gun, but even with the larger 38 S&W expander, I end up getting some boolit swaging, so I use the .358 boolit sizer, and end up with .357 after I've pulled the boolit from a loaded round. Prior to when I powder coated my boolits, I could get away with .357 size just fine; I was using a hard enough alloy (around BHN 15-17) that they weren't getting swaged down by the case. I've since gone to a cheaper (less tin and antimony) softer alloy since I started powder coating, and now the boolits are getting swaged down a bit further than they were. That's also another tool you'll want to keep in your kit... if you boolits are getting swaged down to too small of a diameter, you can increase the hardness, but do so *very* carefully. Hardness is another one of those "sweet spots" you'll need to shoot for. Too soft, and you'll get leading and swaged boolits. Too hard, and you'll go back to getting leading again. If I were to start the madness that is beginning to reload/cast for 9mm again, I'd start out with a BHN of 12, then if I had swaging/leading issues, work up in steps of 2 until they were solved. But adjusting the hardness of your boolit won't have any effect at all if you're not shooting the proper *size* boolit for your barrel. Keep that in the back of your mind before you start messing around with hardness. :)

So answering the question of what sizer to get becomes one of those "it depends" kind of answers... It depends on what size your barrel likes, it depends on how much case swaging effect you get. And it also depends on one more thing we need to talk about:

And of course there has to be one other little thing to consider... throat size. You might find that your gun will feed .357 boolits fine, but will simply choke on .358. There is a member here who will ream out your gun's throat to accept larger diameter projectiles should you run into this problem.

9mm is kinda considered to be a collegiate level reloading and casting caliber, but it's nothing you can't handle if you just work through it step by step. And all the reading and question asking you're doing here is a sure-fire way to get off on the best foot possible.

[Bashby]

Phlier, thanks for "taking me under your wing" (Avatar related pun intended). A couple bits of info that may make a difference: i am using range scrap and dont know the hardness. I read a tip here somewhere about using drawing pencils to check hardness, I may pick some up to get an idea of what Im working with. I am also planning on powder coating my boolits.

Just ordered the 38s&w expander and 357 and 358 sizers from the link you provided earlier. 358 was on sale so I went ahead and got it.

[Phlier]

Phlier, thanks for "taking me under your wing" (Avatar related pun intended). A couple bits of info that may make a difference: i am using range scrap and dont know the hardness. I read a tip here somewhere about using drawing pencils to check hardness, I may pick some up to get an idea of what Im working with. I am also planning on powder coating my boolits.

Just ordered the 38s&w expander and 357 and 358 sizers from the link you provided earlier. 358 was on sale so I went ahead and got it.
The parrot in my avatar is 22 years old now, and we've had him since he was a baby. He'll outlive me, as his type of parrot usually lives to be 70+ years old. He's sitting on my shoulder as I type this, sharing my morning coffee with me.

Eventually, you'll want a tool that'll give you a pretty good indication of the hardness of your boolit alloy. I've been using a Lee Hardness Tester for years, and have no complaints.

I think I read somewhere that you'll be powder coating your boolits... that's a great choice. IME, it allows you to shoot softer alloy without leading, and the range scrap you'll be shooting will definitely come in on the soft side. You can try to water quench it, but keep in mind that in order for water quenching to increase the hardness, the alloy has to have at least a bit of antimony in it. The lead that you get from cores of FMJ's is pretty much just pure lead, so no antimony (or even tin) to be found. But it doesn't hurt to give water quenching a try, as it only takes a trace of antimony to make water quenching work... at least to a degree.

Since you're going to be shooting some pretty soft boolits, I think that you'll find the .358 sizing die to be a great fit.

You will want to have the ability to increase the hardness of your alloy, though, as you might very well find that range scrap (even powder coated) might end up giving you leading issues, accuracy issues, or possibly both. Who knows, maybe it'll work great for you, but let's plan on the possibility that you'll need to increase the hardness a bit.

I harden up my range scrap (and other alloys) using RotoMetal's "Super Hard" bullet alloy. RotoMetals also has other alloys, too, but I particularly like the Super Hard, as it's meant to be added to other alloys to harden them, whereas their other alloys are meant to be cast directly.

When you get a chance, you'll want to read "From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm)" The entire book is worth reading, but in particular, you'll want to read about boolit casting alloys. And after reading that book, you'll never use anything other than just plain saw dust to flux your melt again. ;)

It only takes about an hour to read that book, and IMO, you won't spend a better hour in your life learning about casting.

You might also find that a lead alloy calculator is helpful in determining how much of what to add to your alloy to get the desired hardness. There are several threads around here discussing the various choices.

I had been using various powder coating powders, but just recently switched to powder that is sold by a member here.. in fact, let me get you a link to his sales thread...http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?252509-VS-Hi-Quality-Powdercoating-Powder-For-sale. After using Smoke's PC, I won't use anything else ever again.

[Bashby]

I have read some of Ingot to target. It has a lot of terms that are new to me so I will need to read over it a few times before it all comes together, if that makes sense.

I placed an order with Smoke the other day and it should arrive tomorrow.

[Traffer]

Hey Bashby, I think you'll have great results with the Lee set. I have a bunch of 9mm dies... two sets of Dillon (used in my 550 and 1050), a set of RCBS (used them in my old Rockchucker), and a full set of Lee that I use in my Lee Classic Turret press.

I just wanted to make sure that you knew there is a difference in the expanding dies that guys have been recommending.... You DO NOT want the expander die from 38 Special/357 Magnum, you want the expander die from 38 S&W. This part right here: http://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-pm-expan-plug-38-s-and-w.html That's the exact die I ordered from the exact place I ordered it from. :)

It'll expand your case more than the expander die included with your Lee 9mm set, and also a bit more than 38 Special. The part number that I linked you to is a powder through expander, so you can use it either in a stand-alone expander die, or you can use it with your powder-through die... you can take out the powder through expander plug in your new set of Lee 9mm dies, and just drop the 38 S&W one in.

IMO, it's pretty important to use the 38 S&W expander, especially since your barrel slugs out at .356. That expander will prevent the cartridge walls from swaging down your boolit to less than the desired .358 diameter you'll be wanting for that barrel.

When you're getting all set up, load up a test round, then pull the boolit. Measure the base of it and make sure it's not getting swaged down below .358. If it is, increase the depth of the expander.

If you have some military brass, you'll want to make sure to do the above test with it, as military brass typically has thicker case walls and has a tendency to swage boolits down more than typical 9mm brass does.

As to the Lee FCD, you'll hear guys here swear by it, and others swear at it. IME, the only time I have ever had a problem using the FCD is with military brass. Occasionally, the FCD with military brass will swage the boolit down below the desired diameter. But IME, it only happens with the military brass, and only occasionally. Other guys will say that it happens all the time, while another group of guys say they never have any problems with the FCD at all.

I *do* use the FCD for cast boolits, and have never had any problems with it, except for military brass. But I don't have much of that anyway, so it's really not a problem. :) Give it a try, and see how it works for you. :)

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention.... not only do you want to pull a boolit and measure the base of it, but you'll also want to verify that you have enough neck tension, too. Take a finished round and measure the OAL. Then press the tip of the boolit into something like the edge of your reloading bench, and push pretty hard. Then measure the OAL again. It should be the same. If it is shorter, you'll need to make adjustments so that you're getting better neck tension. There's a window you're shooting for here... you don't want the case so small that it swages down the boolit diameter, but you don't want the case so large that you're not getting adequate neck tension.

Thanks for that great explanation. I have a 9mm and have not started reloading for it yet. Am aware of the woes of too small of a bullet/swaging the bullet down when reloading. Your solution is very practical, economical and well explained.

[Traffer]

What did you measure it with. More of a chance that your measurement has varied than it shrunk. I use cheap calipers a lot and when they batteries get weak they still work but start getting jiggy. A bit erratic in their measurements. If you are using a digital caliper maybe your battery needs changing. it is far better to measure with a micrometer if you have one.
Your process of making the slug yada yada sounds good enough. I do something very similar. Just make sure you use soft lead and make the slug a bit bigger than the bore and it should register the size if the bore well.
I would not size to .357 in a 9mm but I am not the expert on that. Most folks say .002" over or even more. My gun slugs at .356" and I would use up to .3585" cast bullets.

[mto7464]

Mine sizer sizes to .3575 and shoot well. Would prefer .358. You can always get a .357 and if not happy open it up a little at a time. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?14003-Enlarging-a-Lee-Sizer-die

[Bashby]

What did you measure it with.

Measured with a micrometer

[Wally]

You can raise the sizer die so it doesn't size as much, as the 9mm sizer is tapered. Then check the sized cases to be certain they chamber in your pistols, as they should. You have to experiment a bit as to how deep that you screw down the sizer die.




Most any sizing die will work for jacketed but few work well for lead. They typically make the case too small and the slug gets damaged in seating. I use the Lee FCP minus the guts, but as a sizer. You can jimmie up a sizing pin to fit it if you're clever. I think my expander and flare plug is .357 diameter. Cases matter too, most are tapered inside limiting seating depth before you bulge. Federal are straight wall. I have had good results with 3.0 of BE. Good luck

[mto7464]

You can raise the sizer die so it doesn't size as much, as the 9mm sizer is tapered. Then check the sized cases to be certain they chamber in your pistols, as they should. You have to experiment a bit as to how deep that you screw down the sizer die.

I tried this but I use range brass. It would work on some brass but others needed FL sizing. If it was all your brass this would work.

[Wally]

True, perhaps you should size it all up not fully sized and see what will fully fit in the chamber, those that don't, size them a tad more, You may find that few will not fit. Maybe worth a try. I shoot on my land and reuse my own brass; so I don't have any issue not fully resizing 9mm brass to be used with cast bullets sized at .358". Good luck!

[fredj338]

I have an old set of RCBS, run them on my 650 with a MBR stepped funnel (M type). It works great & I am sure I would be served well with Dillon, Hornady or even Lee.

[Phlier]

Hey Bashby, any chance you've gotten an opportunity to shoot your first cast boolits yet? If so, how'd it go?

This past weekend, Target had a sale on Hamilton Beach 6 slice toaster ovens. Regularly 130 bucks, on sale for 80. I went ahead and picked one up, and I cannot imagine an oven that is more suited to powder coating boolits. It's really a sweet deal. It comes with a perfectly sized "air fryer" mesh basket, that'll hold 20 pounds (nearly 1,100 rounds) of my 9mm boolits. It comes with a non-stick "catch pan" that is really nice, too... You just set the mesh basket on the catch pan, dump your boolits out of the container that you used to coat 'em, then just shake the mesh basket a bit over the catch pan, pop 'em in the oven, and you're set.

It appears to be PID controlled, too, as the indicated temperature was always within 5 degrees of my IR thermometer I used to verify the oven's temp.

So if you're in the market for a toaster oven for boolit PC'ing, I can't recommend it highly enough. Here's a link to the actual product, and it looks like it's still on sale for 80 bucks. https://www.target.com/p/hamilton-beach-digital-sure-crisp-air-fry-toaster-oven/-/A-54639402

This is such a good oven that I think I'll actually start a thread about it.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings... let us know how things are working out for you when you get a chance. :)

[trixter]

I have been casting 9mm boolits for some time using Lee TL 356-124-2R which I powder coat with Eastwood Ford Light Blue. After I powder coat them I run them through a .356 Lee sizing die. I use the expander die that comes with the set. I talked with the folks at Starline Brass and they polished it for me and it works great. I was told by Lee Customer Service that the expander should be a little sticky to be sure it sizes properly, but I like 'smoothe'. I do not use the FCD as I learned with a 3 die set on a Lee single stage. Now I use a Lee Classic Cast Turret press and I also use the RCBS Bullet Feeder, so there is no room for the FCD. The powder coated boolits work great and do not hang up in the feeder. I am very happy with the setup and also installed a 'reverse rotation' kit from Inline Fabrication. This set up allows me to inspect the process at every stage of production. It is a little slower than a progressive, but much more reliable for me.

[Bashby]

Hey Bashby, any chance you've gotten an opportunity to shoot your first cast boolits yet? If so, how'd it go?

This past weekend, Target had a sale on Hamilton Beach 6 slice toaster ovens. Regularly 130 bucks, on sale for 80. I went ahead and picked one up, and I cannot imagine an oven that is more suited to powder coating boolits. It's really a sweet deal. It comes with a perfectly sized "air fryer" mesh basket, that'll hold 20 pounds (nearly 1,100 rounds) of my 9mm boolits. It comes with a non-stick "catch pan" that is really nice, too... You just set the mesh basket on the catch pan, dump your boolits out of the container that you used to coat 'em, then just shake the mesh basket a bit over the catch pan, pop 'em in the oven, and you're set.

It appears to be PID controlled, too, as the indicated temperature was always within 5 degrees of my IR thermometer I used to verify the oven's temp.

So if you're in the market for a toaster oven for boolit PC'ing, I can't recommend it highly enough. Here's a link to the actual product, and it looks like it's still on sale for 80 bucks. https://www.target.com/p/hamilton-beach-digital-sure-crisp-air-fry-toaster-oven/-/A-54639402

This is such a good oven that I think I'll actually start a thread about it.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings... let us know how things are working out for you when you get a chance. :)

I havent loaded any yet. Still waiting on PC supplies from Smoke and sizing dies. I picked up a $20 toaster oven at Goodwill yesterday.

[Bashby]

251264

Got PC from smoke, one step closer to making this work! Waiting on resizing dies still. I think Im hooked!

[Phlier]

Nice! That's a very well done photograph.

[6bg6ga]

Your probably going to get 100 people telling you which dies are their favorites and you will have people that love LEE, RCBS, Dillon, Hornady, and others. There is no "best" die in my opinion. My opinion is quality costs more money quality my opinion again equates to the possibility of better accuracy. Last opinion is to buy once and buy good. In other words don't settle for a set of cheap dies when you really wanted a set of "XYZ " dies. I have Dillon, RCBS, and Redding dies. All work well. The real test is when something goes wrong and a die gets screwed up which happened to me with a set of Redding dies. I got on the phone to them and no problem they sent me what I had screwed up at no charge.

The Dillon's work well and the newer versions come apart for easy cleaning while maintaining the setting. Sometimes I setup a Dillon 550 press with a combination of Hornady powder measure and RCBS and dillon dies. I also have competition Rifle Die Sets from RCBS for 22-250 and .308 and I find the micrometer setting a necessity in achieving extremely accurate ammunition.

Some here like Lee and well whatever works I guess. I personally do not like the quality of the Lee product as opposed to say RCBS. I purchased a 9mm Lee taper crimp die which was hell on my cases. I purchased a RCBS taper crimp die and you couldn't tell any case wear at all.

What it boils down to is your going to have to satisfy yourself instead of listening and or reading 100's of different accounts from people you don't know claiming to know more than anyone else telling you to buy a specific brand.

Its simply a question of how much you want to spend for a lot of people and for me its an all out question of quality and what I can live with. I have 5 sets of 9mm dies and that breaks down to two sets of Dillon and 3 sets of RCBS. I have two Dillon presses and one Lyman T-Mag press.

[Bashby]

I got my resizers today. Sized the 150 or so PCed boolits I have to .358. Made a dummy round with a light crimp on a 1.002" OAL and it did not plunk. I could push the bullet down into the throat with my thumb with moderate pressure. Sized one down to .357 and same thing except it took very little pressure to push the bullet into the throat. Do I need to send my barrel to Dougguy to open the throat up a bit? This is a factory Glock barrel, the one they say you cant shoot cast boolits through. Maybe I should consider another barrel instead of putting money into this one.

[Phlier]

I got my resizers today. Sized the 150 or so PCed boolits I have to .358. Made a dummy round with a light crimp on a 1.002" OAL and it did not plunk. I could push the bullet down into the throat with my thumb with moderate pressure. Sized one down to .357 and same thing except it took very little pressure to push the bullet into the throat. Do I need to send my barrel to Dougguy to open the throat up a bit? This is a factory Glock barrel, the one they say you cant shoot cast boolits through. Maybe I should consider another barrel instead of putting money into this one.
Yup, that's about the only real option if you want to shoot cast in that barrel.

Also, be careful with that OAL... that sounds awful short to me. What weight is the boolit? I could see getting that short with lighter (115gr and less) weights, but to give you an idea, I'm at 1.125 OAL with a 124gr 2r round nose.

You *could* try to go down to .356, and maybe powder coating will come to the rescue and keep you from getting leading problems, but there aren't a lot of guys that are able to get .356 cast boolits to work well in 9mm.

[Bashby]

Its a 105 gr swc. Lee 358-105 mold.

[Bashby]

If I have the throat opened up, are there any negatives like when I shoot jacketed bullets?

[Phlier]

If I have the throat opened up, are there any negatives like when I shoot jacketed bullets?

Not that I'm aware of, but Doug would be the one that would know for sure. It's opening the throat only, so it shouldn't effect the way that the gun operates with different ammo at all, merely give you the option of using wider projectiles than before.

You're positive that you crimped (to the point of removing flare) the rounds?

[Bashby]

I got the 38 s&w expander but just used the 9mm one to make my dummy rounds. I can start my .358" boolits in the mouth of the case. If I take an expanded case, no boolit, and drop it in the chamber it falls all the way in and solidly plunks. I am pretty sure it is the boolit not going in the throat I am experincing.

I just measured my dmmy round at the case mouth and an expanded empty that plunks and the dummy is .001 smaller.

[Phlier]

Some guys have had success with powder coated .356 boolits in 9mm, but most 9mm barrels require either .357 or .358 to work without leading issues. You could give .356 a shot... if it works for you, great. If not, it looks like getting the throat reamed is going to be the only way you'll get that barrel to work with cast boolits.

Given the testing that you have done, I'd be willing to bet that you have accurately diagnosed the problem to be the throat. : / There are some nice aftermarket Glock barrels out there that are worth considering. I've also not read one bad thing about DougGuy's work. So at least there are options. :)

[Phlier]

Hey Bashby, there's one other thing that you could consider...

I just took a look at the boolit you're casting...I had completely missed your post:
Its a 105 gr swc. Lee 358-105 mold. You're using a semi-wadcutter design. SWC's aren't universally used in the 9mm community, and you're bumping into one of the reasons why; the boolit shape.

If you go to the local store and buy 9mm ammo, you'll see FMJ, round nose hollow points, truncated cones, and round nose plated. Yet you won't find (now just because I said "won't find" someone will find some :) ) SWC's. If you do manage to find some SWC's in 9mm, they're probably meant to be shot in a 929, which is a revolver.

They just don't play well in the wide variety of 9mm chambers you'll find out there.

IMO, if you change to a different boolit design, you have a much better chance of getting one that'll fit your throat. That SWC is extending that full .358 diameter much farther up the total length of the boolit than a round nose or a truncated cone would, leaving a large amount of that full diameter sticking out above the case mouth.

The boolit I shoot, which I hesitate to mention here because it's so controversial, ends it's full diameter at approximately the half length of the boolit shaft. All but just a few thousandths of the full .358 diameter are stuck in the case mouth... very little (as I said, just a few thousandths) of the full .358 diameter protrude past the mouth of the case. That part of the projectile that protrudes past the case mouth is *significantly* narrower in diameter. And it's this part of the boolit that's causing your throat to choke.. literally. So as long as you can get a .358 sized piece of brass to "plunk" in your gun, the chances are very, very high that you'll get a boolit that has little to none full .358 diameter boolit sticking out past the case mouth to plunk as well.

I would be happy to send you a few of my preciouses to load up and try in your gun. I'd (almost) be willing to bet real American Pesos that my boolit will fit your gun's throat, even if sized to .358.

Edit to add: OK, I'll break down and tell you the boolit I'm shooting... I'm shooting the (in)famous Lee TL356-124-2R. This boolit gained a nasty reputation here and on many other forums. Guys have had horrible issues with this boolit, ranging from horrible leading to life ending cancer. I ran into most of those problems along the way, too, which is actually why I've accumulated so much knowledge about casting and loading the 9mm. I was finally able to fine tune this boolit with great help from this and other forums, and I love it very, very much. Especially when it's powder coated. Powder coating tames the wild and wily Lee boolit like nothing else. I get zero leading and fantastic accuracy from it.

If I had it to do over again, I'd pick the non TL version of Lee's 124 gr truncated cone if I was on a budget, but if the wife was feeling particularly generous, I'd buy the no lube groove Hi-Tec that currently has a group buy going on. On both of these designs, very little of the full diameter of the boolit extends past the case mouth.

Anyway, I'm serious about the offer to send some boolits your way... and not at too high of a velocity. ;) You have a variety to choose from, too. I can send them to you unsized, not powder coated, or sized to either .356, .357, or .358. Mix and match to your heart's content... if you want a few unsized, and un powder coated, and a few powder coated but not sized, and a few powder coated and sized to .356, plus a few that are .357, etc. etc. You get the idea.

[sagebrush rebel]

Whats your secret with this boolit? I bought this mold when things were crazy a few years ago when any thing was hard to get. I haven't cast any boolits from it because of the bad reviews. I just put my name in for one of the group buys for a boolit with no grooves. Thanks Don

[Bashby]

Heres a copy/paste of a post I made a while back that explains why I am trying to get the swc to work. I know its an uphill battle but figured Id give it a shot.

"Thanks for all the advice. My intentions for right now are to try to get some SWCs to work in my Glock 17 sized Polymer80. Once I get to casting who knows what i will get into. The reason for the SWC is that Ive been doing a 2x4 shoot at my local club where two of us stand at 15 yards and shoot a 2x4 in half for the fastest time. Everyone else is using larger calibers cuz big holes are better, but it seems that even with a .45 when using a RN bullet damage is way less than a SWC. The smart thing to do would be to get a .45, but what fun is that? If I can get S wCs to run reliably and they perform like I hope they will, quicker follow up shots should be possible. Im considering downloading and possibly running a lighter return spring.

ETA: planning on powder coating also."

I was planning on getting a mold for something more foregiving, just concentrating on the swc for now.

[Bashby]

Whats your secret with this boolit? I bought this mold when things were crazy a few years ago when any thing was hard to get. I haven't cast any boolits from it because of the bad reviews. I just put my name in for one of the group buys for a boolit with no grooves. Thanks Don

Do you mean the SWC or the one Phil is talking about?

[Phlier]

Whats your secret with this boolit? I bought this mold when things were crazy a few years ago when any thing was hard to get. I haven't cast any boolits from it because of the bad reviews. I just put my name in for one of the group buys for a boolit with no grooves. Thanks Don

IMO, powder coating takes a ton out of the learning curve for this boolit. Some other tips...

For the best accuracy, load it to as long of an OAL as your gun will allow.

Slower burning powders work best with it (I'm currently using CFE-Pistol)

Start by sizing 0.001 over what your barrel slugs at

Slug your barrel :)

Use either a .38 S&W expander, or NOE's .356/.360 expander plug

I've had best results with alloy hardness in the range of BHN 14-16, although powder coating has allowed me to go down to BHN 12 without any problems. I haven't tried going softer than that... yet. ;)

If after increasing to the max OAL that your gun will allow you still need better accuracy, change the boolit speed. One of my guns likes that boolit fast, another slow, and the third really doesn't care. So I can't say "Increase the boolit speed for better accuracy," but rather just "change speeds until you get the accuracy you want."

Here's my current pet load, but I'm posting this for reference only... I'm not saying that it's safe, accurate, or anything else... just what I'm currently using. If you decide to use it, do so at your own risk. :)

Lee TL356-124-2R

OAL: 1.125-1.130

Powder: 4.6 gr CFE-Pistol

Primer: CCI 500

Boolit Diameter: 0.358

Expander Plug: either .38 S&W or NOE's .356/.360 (depends on what press I'm currently loading on). Case is expanded to just below where the bottom of the boolit seats

Crimp: Taper crimp just to the point where the flare is removed. Do not over crimp this boolit. This will be ~ .380 mouth measurement, depending on the thickness of the brass you're using.

Powder coated with Smoke's powder, and sized to .358 after powder coating.

If you do not want to powder coat, Ben's Liquid Lube (at least the old formula.. haven't tried the new) works very well as a tumble lube. After TL'ing and the lube has dried, tumbling again with 1/4 tsp of mica powder per 300 boolits will remove any stickiness. And if you can stand the smell of it when you're shooting, straight Alox works very well as long as you heat the alox until it's the thickness of whole milk, and applying such a thin coat that you can just barely see it. Warming the boolits to the point that you can just stand to hold them prior to Alox'ing them helps a lot, too. 1/2 teaspoon per 300 boolits is plenty for either Alox or BLL.

If an OAL of 1.125 is too long for your gun, please be very careful... seating the boolit deeper will result in much higher pressures. You will need to change your powder charge appropriately.

[Phlier]

Heres a copy/paste of a post I made a while back that explains why I am trying to get the swc to work. I know its an uphill battle but figured Id give it a shot.

"Thanks for all the advice. My intentions for right now are to try to get some SWCs to work in my Glock 17 sized Polymer80. Once I get to casting who knows what i will get into. The reason for the SWC is that Ive been doing a 2x4 shoot at my local club where two of us stand at 15 yards and shoot a 2x4 in half for the fastest time. Everyone else is using larger calibers cuz big holes are better, but it seems that even with a .45 when using a RN bullet damage is way less than a SWC. The smart thing to do would be to get a .45, but what fun is that? If I can get S wCs to run reliably and they perform like I hope they will, quicker follow up shots should be possible. Im considering downloading and possibly running a lighter return spring.

ETA: planning on powder coating also."

I was planning on getting a mold for something more foregiving, just concentrating on the swc for now.

That's what I get for skimming through the thread too fast... I completely blew past that part. IMO, a cast hollow point would be best for shredding 2X4's. Cast it with a bit harder of an alloy than what you'd typically use for a hunting HP. Not *too* much hader, though, or the boolit will just break apart on impact. If you're not using an expanding boolit, though, I really don't think that you'll see much of a difference in lumber shredding ability between the various non-expanding boolit designs. Although I must say it would be fun to retrieve a few of my Lee 356-124-2R's that have gone through a 2X4... I wouldn't be too surprised to see that round nose collapse down and expand all the way down to the drive bands.

Now you have me so curious that I think I'm gonna be shooting some lumber today... :D

The offer for some of my boolits still stand... I'd like to see what you think not just of the boolit itself, but on its lumber shredding abilities.

[sagebrush rebel]

Thanks for all your help and information. I will try it out. Thanks Don

[drac0nic]

As a question for you folks on resizing dies, I have the Lee sizer and it seems to require a decent amount of force to use. Is that typical of any of the other dies? I've heard of people lubing 9mm and I know it's a tapered case unlike sizing say my .357 brass but still wondering if there's a better way.

[dimaprok]

I have 9mm reloading dies from 3 different manufacturers (bargains, freebies, etc.) and I don't think you'd go wrong with any from the major die manufacturers. But, and this is my opinion only; don't bother with a Lee FDC for handgun cartridges. There is no need to resize the cartridge after seating/crimping. If there are bulges on the cartridge or it doesn't plunk correctly, find out why and fix it. Mostly just a die adjustment will suffice...

Can you please explain how to adjust to the die to get rid of the bulge in the seated cartridge? That doesn't make any sense to me, the only way I can think to do is size bullet smaller. I find especially the problem is not the bulge itself if it forms evenly on all sides but its the fact that it tends to form on one side. The only way I could fix it was to to buy Lee FCD and yeah, not very happy with brass particles it leaves behind but what to do? I am having same problem with 45 ACP now but it's even more sensitive as case gauge won't pass bunch of bullets sized to .452, at least with 9mm I can size them down a little bit more.

[dimaprok]

I prefer rcbs dies, but I have all kinds. They all work. In 9mm, I use a lee universal expanding die with a noe expander plug for loading oversized cast bullets. I think I also use a redding taper crimp die in 9mm. Can’t remember right now.

Just recently I was using NOE expander plug and noticed that it was getting harder and harder to move the ram in the press up and down and than I noticed there were parallel lines / scratches running in the cases vertically, they were all scratched up! I looked at the culprit and it was NOE plug which accumulated brass particles and was scratching all of my brass, I am using .356/360 plug but the first stage is just way too long .350" and this is probably why it's a problem, I think it was meant for 357/38 I think I'll shorten it on the lathe and buy/machine another plug for my 38/357. What plug do you use and have you had any problems?

[robbyPGP2014]

I use a steel 9mm Lyman set that was my Dad's , that is actually tapered ,I think. You will have to lub cases but they do a really good job for cast.

[Phlier]

Can you please explain how to adjust to the die to get rid of the bulge in the seated cartridge?

You can't. You're literally shoving a boolit that is 0.003 over size for this caliber into the brass. That's a large increase in diameter over factory ammo, and it *is* going to bulge the case. If you *do* end up getting rid of the bulge, then you have sized the boolit down in the process; that's the *only* way you can get rid of the bulge, by sizing the boolit down to .3555 caliber. Anything larger, and the laws of physics say that it *has* to bulge. Embrace the bulge... you *need* it. You must run cast boolits that are .001 to .002 over your barrel diameter in order for them to function correctly, and they *are* going to bulge your case.

Now if you're running 0.356 boolits, then you will probably have minimal case bulge. But if you're running .357 or .358 (which is what I'm loading), your case is going to bulge.

[Phlier]

Thanks for all your help and information. I will try it out. Thanks Don

One last thing... It is fairly common for this particular Lee mold to throw undersized boolits. I'm able to get mine to throw .359, but in order to do so, I have to use Lyman #2 alloy. The more tin in your alloy, the larger the boolit your mold will cast.

[dimaprok]

Hey Bashby, any chance you've gotten an opportunity to shoot your first cast boolits yet? If so, how'd it go?

This past weekend, Target had a sale on Hamilton Beach 6 slice toaster ovens. Regularly 130 bucks, on sale for 80. I went ahead and picked one up, and I cannot imagine an oven that is more suited to powder coating boolits. It's really a sweet deal. It comes with a perfectly sized "air fryer" mesh basket, that'll hold 20 pounds (nearly 1,100 rounds) of my 9mm boolits. It comes with a non-stick "catch pan" that is really nice, too... You just set the mesh basket on the catch pan, dump your boolits out of the container that you used to coat 'em, then just shake the mesh basket a bit over the catch pan, pop 'em in the oven, and you're set.

It appears to be PID controlled, too, as the indicated temperature was always within 5 degrees of my IR thermometer I used to verify the oven's temp.

So if you're in the market for a toaster oven for boolit PC'ing, I can't recommend it highly enough. Here's a link to the actual product, and it looks like it's still on sale for 80 bucks. https://www.target.com/p/hamilton-beach-digital-sure-crisp-air-fry-toaster-oven/-/A-54639402

This is such a good oven that I think I'll actually start a thread about it.

Anyway, enough of my ramblings... let us know how things are working out for you when you get a chance. :)

Nice oven for sure but I wouldn't waste it on powder coating. Picked up very similar oven in thrift store with digital controls and all that for $9.99 and the mesh baskets for few dollars, I have whole collection they are from deep fryers that people donate and they are by far the best mesh containers I've seen for baking bullets.

[dimaprok]

My slug size changing was bugging me, so I slugged it again and Im coming up with .3555". I guess I read the mic wrong. Now Im torn on the resizer I should get, .357 or .358.

I know it's too late but I would recommend 357 rather than 358 sizing die, my bullets always end up being .001 over because they turn out hard / semi-hard and as someone said, opening up to 358 is not hard and same time you end up with more polished die anyway if needed. I am actually thinking of going back sizing with 356 as that would put me at 357, at 358 they bulge pretty good and factory crimp die has to work harder to smooth it out.

[dimaprok]

I got my resizers today. Sized the 150 or so PCed boolits I have to .358. Made a dummy round with a light crimp on a 1.002" OAL and it did not plunk. I could push the bullet down into the throat with my thumb with moderate pressure. Sized one down to .357 and same thing except it took very little pressure to push the bullet into the throat. Do I need to send my barrel to Dougguy to open the throat up a bit? This is a factory Glock barrel, the one they say you cant shoot cast boolits through. Maybe I should consider another barrel instead of putting money into this one.

I bet you you need a bit more crimp to solve your problem, I was having same issues, also even though everyone will tell you need the bullet to plunk, I found that a light push to full seat is just fine, just think about the slide slamming that round in to the chamber, it does pretty good job. I personally have not had any problems once I adjusted the crimp but also running through Lee factory crimp die. Regarding that 358 105gr bullet, you'll be surprised how many people shoot and find it accurate if you search the forums. I personally loaded and expected to jam but surprisingly it shot just fine, in fact my Ruger 9mm carbine shot everything from 100gr to 165gr without any issues.

[dimaprok]

You can't. You're literally shoving a boolit that is 0.003 over size for this caliber into the brass. That's a large increase in diameter over factory ammo, and it *is* going to bulge the case. If you *do* end up getting rid of the bulge, then you have sized the boolit down in the process; that's the *only* way you can get rid of the bulge, by sizing the boolit down to .3555 caliber. Anything larger, and the laws of physics say that it *has* to bulge. Embrace the bulge... you *need* it. You must run cast boolits that are .001 to .002 over your barrel diameter in order for them to function correctly, and they *are* going to bulge your case.

Now if you're running 0.356 boolits, then you will probably have minimal case bulge. But if you're running .357 or .358 (which is what I'm loading), your case is going to bulge.

Yeah I know! I was quoting MDI "If there are bulges on the cartridge or it doesn't plunk correctly, find out why and fix it. Mostly just a die adjustment will suffice..." I misunderstood and got the notion that you can fix the bulge with a die adjustment, but I see now that's not what he meant. Now regarding reaming throat, I wanted to do that but being carbine barrel I figured it would cost me with shipping both way close to $100 bucks and this is why I looked at other options. One options was to buy the reamer and do it myself. Depending on the reamer it might actually be even cheaper. Another option was to just find a bullet like you described where the nose and bearing surface actually work with short/non existent throat and I chose to do 2nd. Currently I am using Lee TC 120gr and seems to work just fine. I am considering also jumping on group buy for Miha's 135gr and getting 8 cavity aluminum or 6 cav brass. The bullet shape looks like it would work well.

[Phlier]

Yeah I know! I was quoting MDI "If there are bulges on the cartridge or it doesn't plunk correctly, find out why and fix it. Mostly just a die adjustment will suffice..." I misunderstood and got the notion that you can fix the bulge with a die adjustment, but I see now that's not what he meant. Now regarding reaming throat, I wanted to do that but being carbine barrel I figured it would cost me with shipping both way close to $100 bucks and this is why I looked at other options. One options was to buy the reamer and do it myself. Depending on the reamer it might actually be even cheaper. Another option was to just find a bullet like you described where the nose and bearing surface actually work with short/non existent throat and I chose to do 2nd. Currently I am using Lee TC 120gr and seems to work just fine. I am considering also jumping on group buy for Miha's 135gr and getting 8 cavity aluminum or 6 cav brass. The bullet shape looks like it would work well.

Ah, I see what you mean now. Once again, me skimming through the posts too fast results in poor understanding on my part... you were pretty much saying the same thing as I was. /blush.

Yup, I've asked Mrs. Claus for the MiHec 8 cavity for Christmas, but I did see her shopping for coal lumps earlier this week. : /

[Lloyd Smale]

I use one of these https://leeprecision.com/undersize-sizing-die-9mm.html Im a big fan of small base rifle dies for ars. Allways believed reliability trumps brass life any day. This is the small base die of pistol rounds. By the way I did an experiment with them last summer and loaded the same 20 rounds of brass 12 times using them and still no splits. So if brass life suffers it sure isn't much.

[ioon44]

I recommend the new Hornady dies for 9 mm or any other calibers.

[charlie b]

I'm another Lee fan. I've had RCBS and Lyman and I find no difference in my ability to reload bullets. I like the FCD especially for semi autos (taper crimp), but, I also use one for my .308 when shooting cast (gets rid of the case flare nicely). I even like Lee presses. My Loadmaster has worked great for more than 10 years as long as it is adjusted properly. Yep, I'd love a Dillon 650 but I don't want to spend that kind of money.

And, in over 30 years of buying Lee stuff I've never had an item that was made wrong. I will say I don't like their press mounted 'safety primer' setup. It is the only product of theirs that did not do what I needed it to do.

I guess I have been lucky with 9mm. I had a S&W 659 and now an HK VP9 and they run reloads just fine. I don't cast for it since I find bulk plated bullets cheap enough and I don't shoot it that much.

[Phlier]

I'm another Lee fan. I've had RCBS and Lyman and I find no difference in my ability to reload bullets. I like the FCD especially for semi autos (taper crimp), but, I also use one for my .308 when shooting cast (gets rid of the case flare nicely). I even like Lee presses. My Loadmaster has worked great for more than 10 years as long as it is adjusted properly. Yep, I'd love a Dillon 650 but I don't want to spend that kind of money.

And, in over 30 years of buying Lee stuff I've never had an item that was made wrong. I will say I don't like their press mounted 'safety primer' setup. It is the only product of theirs that did not do what I needed it to do.

I have a Dillon 550, a Dillon 1050, and a Lee Classic Turret Press, along with a wide assortment of Dillon, RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, and Lee dies. And I completely agree. Although I'm not a big fan of Lee's de-capping pin setup. But other than that one small quibble, I love all of my Lee stuff... including the very Rube Goldberg-ess Safety Prime System. I use it on the Classic Turret press without issue. And I'd much rather load up the Safety Prime System with primers than sit and hunt and peck primers with a Dillon tube! Yeah, I know there are options for that.. I've tried Frankford Arsenal's vibra-prime (unsuccessfully), and am unwilling to spend the hundreds of additional dollars (in addition to the Dillon presses themselves) for a Dillon or Double Alpha primer tube loader. Ridiculous.



I guess I have been lucky with 9mm. I had a S&W 659 and now an HK VP9 and they run reloads just fine. I don't cast for it since I find bulk plated bullets cheap enough and I don't shoot it that much.
IMO, it isn't hard to get 9mm copper jacketed reloads to work in 9mm; it's the casting part that makes it challenging.

[dimaprok]

I use one of these https://leeprecision.com/undersize-sizing-die-9mm.html Im a big fan of small base rifle dies for ars. Allways believed reliability trumps brass life any day. This is the small base die of pistol rounds. By the way I did an experiment with them last summer and loaded the same 20 rounds of brass 12 times using them and still no splits. So if brass life suffers it sure isn't much.

Have you compared factory 9mm and one sized with normal lee die? The 1st one is straight and 2nd one looks a bit like hourglass. IMO it's being downsized too much already and when you insert fat bullet it amplifies this affect. I measured factory base and resized base and they same, that's not an issue. If you're having issues with base you want to run them through bulge buster die but I personally never had that problem, but most common problem with reliability is not the base but with the case mouth 1) The bell is not removed enough by not applying enough crimp or 2) bullet sticking out too far and hitting the rifling. I've experienced both of these problems and corrected. I am going to experiment with partial case sizing by raising the die.
251700

[drac0nic]

Never realized this. Going to have to size a few cases up and see what they look like now. It may be there but it's subtle in a loaded round.