Enfield Mark IV No 1* Longbranch 1942

[Thorion]

I was fortunate to acquire an Enfield dating from 1942 that is complete and fully number matching (frame, bolt, magazine, etc) for my son. It was completely cleaned prior to heading to the range where we used some surplus British ammo that I believe had corrosive primers.... all 10 had copper primers and came in five round clips. The rifle shoots great but I'm curious about cleaning.
We used both water based black powder solvent and hot water before switching to Hoppes #9 and finally oil. Multiple passes continued to result in almost black patches, scrubbing with a brass brush in between. We ran between 25 and thirty patches through before getting down to only a greenish color on the patches. I'm guessing that was copper fouling from who knows when. Is this normal? I've never cleaned a rifle after 10 rounds that had so much fouling. I can only think that there was still really old fouling although the bore is very shiny and the rifling is sharp. Thoughts and comments are appreciated....

[LAGS]

I have the same LE and have fired over 1000 rounds of Surplus Corrosive ammo thru it.
The old mil Surp ammo does seem to burn dirtier than my reloads.
But when I first got the rifle , it took me a month to get the old fouling out of the barrel.
It was mostly the Cipro Nickel jacket fouling.
I always just cleaned the barrel with the same stuff I always used and nothing special for the corrosive primed ammo.
Mine is the two groove barrel and measures .315
Main thing is to Clean it good , and clean it right after shooting corrosive ammo.
Heck, how many rounds of corrosive ammo were fired thru these rifles in their years of service and still are in Good to excellent condition

[lefty o]

some old milsurps have never had the copper cleaned out of them. main thing when shooting corrosive ammo, flush with warm water and clean well, next day repeat again to ensure no salts were missed.

[Bloodman14]

I had to soak mine for a WEEK in copper solvent to get it all out. Plug the muzzle with a foam-type earplug, set her in a small dish muzzle down, and fill the barrel with copper solvent. let it set for a day, drain and repeat. It will take awhile! After a few days, drain, swab with patches and brushes, and repeat.

[dverna]

The .303 is one of the more under-rated rounds out there BTW, those Enfields can be made to shoot. When I was in college, our Range Master had competed in England at long range shoots with one. The old boy had Parkinson's but would steady up once he got behind a gun in the prone position...amazing to watch.

Enjoy your piece of history. It was called the best fighting rifle of its time for a reason. Of course the gun rags of the 60's put it down because it was not American or as well engineered as the M98....but it was not designed as a hunting or target rifle. Used to sell for $15 ea. Should have bought a 100 of them.

[Kraschenbirn]

Best I've found for accumulated copper fouling in old milsurps is Sweet's 7.62 followed up by Butch's Boreshine.

Bill

[Thorion]

Thanks for all the replies. Never have seen that much copper so we'll give copper solvents a try. I've also heard that ammonia does a good job with copper fouling. We'll keep after it, it does shoot relatively well but the front sight has been drifted or knocked to thre left so everything is shooting right... easy to fix I suppose. My son loves it as he always wanted one. I must comment that it's also about the loudest rifle outside of magnum rounds we've ever shot. What could be better..... loud, historic, fun!
Oh, and Dverna, I remember those days too, barrels of 1903s, Mauser 98s, Enfields for $25 at the old Dave Cooks on Broadway in Denver. To bad I was only 13 or 14 and not from a hunting family..... let's just say they're not $25 (or even $250) anymore.

[LAGS]

I also have used Straight Industrial strength Ammonia to get copper fouling out of the bores on all of my rifles.
I just plug the end of the muzzle and fill the barrel up with the Ammonia , then let it sit overnight.
It still takes a while to get all the copper out , and you have to use stainless bore brushes not Bronze brushes.

[curator]

+1 to LAGS advice. I also use industrial strength ammonia (10% Ammonia hydroxide) to dissolve copper fouling in older milsurps. However, the copper or copper/nickel fouling is often layered with nitro or cordite fouling also ironed onto the bore. Alternate treatments of nitro-solvents (brake cleaner/Acetone) and overnight soaks on 10% ammonia cleaner will get it all out. My worst case took 6 alternate soaking/solvent cleanings to get it down to bare metal. Once the copper fouling was out that gun was a cast boolit tack driver!

[higgins]

For routine cleaning with corrosive ammo (after the initial copper removal effort), I think you'll be better off with a routine that includes water with soap, Ballistol, or whatever for initial removal of powder fouling, then clean with the usual solvents for copper removal. I've read several milsurp forums for many years, and more than a few times read someone's account of cleaning with Hoppes after firing corrosive ammo and later finding a rusted bore.

I know the Hoppes formula has supposedly changed over the years, and plenty of people will claim that their rifle's bore is fine after cleaning with nothing but Hoppes, Gunslick, etc., but I'm not going to risk corrosion by not cleaning with water somewhere in the cleaning process. I clean with a 50/50 mix of Ballistol and water, followed by cleaning with whatever solvent I use for "normal" copper and fouling cleaning.

[samari46]

Copper or cupro nickle fouling and powder fouling went on the barrels interior surface in layers. And for that reason swapping solvents and cleaning procedures during a cleaning session is what is needed to deal with the layers of bullet and powder fouling. I have an 1895 Winchester that probably had the worst case of bullet jacket and powder fouling I ever seen.Since it was made in 1915 probably had both cupro nickle and copper jacketed bullets shot through it as well as the layers of powder fouling. The land tops had had lumps of metallic fouling on them. Hoppe's would in time deal with the powder fouling but had to deal with the metallic fouling and I used Butch's Bore Shine for that. I'd scrub,patch, and at the end leave the bore wet with Butch's sometimes for extended times. Then start all over again. Took close to 6 months before I started to see the barrel reasonably clean. Went through a good bunch of both 30and 8mm brushes. Frank

[Thorion]

Guys, thanks for all the input and suggestions. We did go back and forth between water based solvent for black powder rifles (talk about corrosive!!) and hoppes until all we were getting was the copper color. Sounds like we need to keep running solvent like ammonia and both gun cleaning materials and probably hot soapy water as well until we get completely clean patches. More elbow grease coming up. I'll post back with further cleaning results and time it takes to get a complete result. I can only hope it doesn't take six months!!!

[Kraschenbirn]

If you happed to know anyone who has an old Outers 'Foul Out' electro-static bore cleaner, it'll do the number in about a half-hour. Unfortunately, the 'Foul Out' and it's cleaning solutions were discontinue quite a few years back so they're kinda rare birds these days. I've got one bottle of the lead remover solution left but, a few years back, used the last of my copper cleaner on a buddy's Finn Mosin.

Bill

[samari46]

Yes it actually took about 6 months to really clean that 1895 Winchester barrel. 1st week or so alternated between Hoppe's and Butch's Bore shine. Shame when you do all that work and still see those lumps sitting on the tops of the lands. Sometimes just let the various solvents work over time. Had a BSA 22rf martini that had been fired extensively with copper plated ammo. Green patches. Never saw that with any 22 I ever had plus the lead in the bore. Live and learn. Frank

[W.R.Buchanan]

it does shoot relatively well but the front sight has been drifted or knocked to the left so everything is shooting right... easy to fix I suppose.

I just happen to make a really nice Front Sight Adjustment Tool for #4 Mk1's which works perfectly.

Available at www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Randy