Magazine springs weakening over time under load.

[tazman]

I have seen many articles saying that leaving magazines loaded for long periods will ruin the springs and cause malfunctions.
Is there a number or percentage of rounds less than maximum that can be left in a magazine for long periods that reduces this problem?

I was told by my gunsmith that the Israeli military has studied this and came to the conclusion that leaving the last two rounds out from full capacity, pretty much stops the failures even for long term storage of loaded magazines.
I don't have a lot of extra magazines and need to have most if not all of them loaded at any given time for my defensive handguns. I really don't want to have failures at a bad time.
I would gladly give up a round or so to maintain function.
Do the newer handguns have better springs in this regard?
Does anyone have any recent info into this?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

My understating is that springs get weaker from use not compression But i rotate my carry magazines every few months and my recoil springs get replaced on my 1911 after 3K rounds

[35remington]

Let me say whether magazine springs weaken over time depends on whether they were adequately designed in the first place.

Example: I have GI spec seven shot magazines that have been loaded for years with no function issues.

Ruger P97 magazines have such poor spring strength that after very little use they started puking the second to last or last shot out of the gun instead of feeding it.

My LCP 2 when kept fully loaded and magazine locked in place gives the magazine spring stack full possible compression and the gun started to fail to lock the slide back on empty after about a year and a half of this.

A weak magazine spring can lead to many malfunctions. A really good magazine design with good spring strength is resistant to problems from being maximally compressed. A poor magazine design with poor springs is not.

Hard to predict what you have until you have been around the block with it.

A good stiff magazine spring is often essential to autoloaders function especially as the gun gets more compact and slide cycle speeds go up.

Do not take it on faith springs last forever. As mentioned magazines fully loaded and in the gun experience maximal spring compression and set. I would trust my Wolff spring seven shot GI magazines in a full size 5 inch 45 1911 for long term heavy use and when inserted in the gun for long periods.

I would run like heck from the idea of carrying a 3.5 inch 45 1911 compact using Wilson 8 shot flush fit magazines for heavy use and when locked in the gun for long periods.

Whether leaving the magazines fully loaded and locked in the gun is a good idea or not depends on the question of what gun and what magazines are being used.

[Winger Ed.]

the Israeli military has studied this and came to the conclusion that leaving the last two rounds out from full capacity, pretty much stops the failures even for long term storage of loaded magazines.

I do that most of the time.
I don't worry about the springs so much, but getting my fingers pinched on that last one or two really screws up my concentration.

However; jumping up and down while cussing seems to make the pain go away faster.

[DiverJay]

Get a revolver. Problem solved.

[lefty o]

the whole leaving magazines loaded or hammers cocked is 100% hogwash. so long as a spring is within its design parameters you can leave it full, empty, or somewhere in between and it will never know the difference. cycling is what wears out a spring.

[MrHarmless]

the whole leaving magazines loaded or hammers cocked is 100% hogwash. so long as a spring is within its design parameters you can leave it full, empty, or somewhere in between and it will never know the difference. cycling is what wears out a spring.

This exactly. There's going to be a *little* bit of break in from the factory, but it's going to be negligible. Cycling a spring is what contributes to wear, not a static load.

[35remington]

Due to design deficiencies some of my magazines must have been beyond “design parameters” when left in a loaded gun. Some had very little “cycling” before they failed. They failed due to static load.

Too little spring in too large a space will do just that, and static load alone will cause it.

Question is....how do you know beforehand? You don’t. Time will tell.

[tazman]

However; jumping up and down while cussing seems to make the pain go away faster.

Blast it man, now I have to clean my keyboard. :awesome:

[Winger Ed.]

Too little spring in too large a space will do just that, and static load alone will cause it.
Question is....how do you know beforehand? You don’t. Time will tell.

That happened to me last week when I went to try out a new batch of slightly tuned down 5.56.
Awhile back I stumbled into a 1977 issue, 1:12 twist, marked as a .223, and almost unfired Colt AR-15.
It had it's original Colt trademark stamped magazine, and I bought 4 more of a bargain priced, but well known manufacturer.

I've never had a magazine failure before.... ever,, with anything.
I store these 4 empty and they're about 4 years old.

At the range, the next to the last round got about 1/2 way in, and at and angle, and the bolt closed against it.
I tried 2 of the others and they did the same thing if I loaded them with 5 rounds, or almost full.

"What's wrong? How did I screw up 1,000 of these? 'Unloading' all of them is really going to suck"
I tried different amounts of the same ammo in the old Colt magazine--- no problems.

Now I can think, 'Whew. Looks like I only need to buy 4 high end springs'.

[GregLaROCHE]

My father’s surplus 1911 only had one magazine. It was always fully loaded for over twenty years. It wasn’t shot often, maybe each year or two. In all that time it never had any issues.

In researching making springs for flintlocks, it is said never compress the spring fully right away. Compress it partly and release it slowly, compressing more each time until full travel is reached. I don’t know if this holds true for magazine type springs, but breaking them in might be something to think about.

[charlie b]

Count me as another who never had problems with magazine springs within normal lifetime.

I did have problems with some GI magazines, BUT, these were magazines that were rejected by the unit armorer as unfit for use. I got them free and would mix and match parts until I got working mags (yes, this was many years ago). Some had dimples in the sides that I pounded out. Some had followers that were bent, etc, etc. Most of those worked reliably for many, many years after and a few stayed loaded with no ill effects. A few would just not work right so I would crush and toss those. Keep in mind that some of these were Korean war vintage and found their way into pistols used in basic training. So, old springs, lots of abuse, and they still worked fine.

My current magazines are Shooting Star or Wilson 8 rnd and they stay loaded. Probably going on 10 years now and never skip a beat.sd

[Rick Hodges]

My time in the army with the M-16 we used 20 rd metal magazines. We were told to load 18. I don't know if it was superstition or not but that was how we loaded and I never had any problems. I carried a glock23 on duty for 9 years. Except for actual firing those three issued magazines were carried fully loaded at all times 24/7. Glock had issues and redesigned and replaced our magazines twice in the first year, but those magazines are still fully functional.
I rotate magazines in my carry gun, every month or three. (I intend to do it monthly but....) I rarely carry a spare magazine so a magazine will rest for 2 out of three cycles.
My experience with Colt 1911 magazines, both colt and gi issue was they functioned flawless.

[Greg S]

My 1911 springs get alot of use, 18.5 recoil @ 1500-2k and fresh Wilson 47D magsprings every year. If your gaming only, you can let that slide alittle.

[Love Life]

We always loaded 28 in our 30 round magazines because the followers sucked. Once magpul came out with the self leveling following, we had no issues loading with 30 rds.

[wv109323]

Good discussion. From a merallurgist standpoint I think there is no correct answer.
Steel has what is called an elastic limit. That means that if metal is deflect below its elastic limit it will return to its original shape. Also metal has a fatigue limit. That is metal is cycled below its elastic limit it will break if cycled enough times. These vary with each alloy of metal,
So the answer depends on the design of the magazine, or how close the spring metal is brought to its elastic limit and how many times it is cycled. There is no one answer fits all.
One observation is that gun manufacturers are trying to make firearms smaller and still have large round capacities means designs are more critixal. The old 1911 mag will last forever but the 109 round 9mm may have problems.

[Lloyd Smale]

never had a problem with mags and ive shot some that had been loaded at least 10 years. I guess if I was paranoid which im not a guy could swap out to new springs every 10 years or so. Springs are cheap.

[tazman]

That is good to know. I have a couple of pistols designated for home defense that have loaded magazines with them. I haven't changed them for a couple of months and was a little concerned.
It seems I really don't need to worry about them.
I have checked them for function a couple of times and they seem fine but I didn't want to run into a problem at an inopportune moment.

[6bg6ga]

I've got magazines I loaded 30 years ago that I took out and used with absolutely no problems. I tend to think that usage is more of a problem than having the mag loaded. Yes, I was also told not to leave magazines loaded by a gunsmith. I still keep them loaded at the ready.

[tazman]

I certainly won't have time to load them if I have need for them , so they need to be loaded.

[onelight]

I know setting loaded has some impact just from new mags that are really had to get the last round in after a week or 2 setting loaded they are easier to fill. But I have mags that have been loaded for 10 years that get rotated for range time none have ever needed spring replacement .
I don't know if this is true for all mags all the time but that is my experience.

[lefty o]

I know setting loaded has some impact just from new mags that are really had to get the last round in after a week or 2 setting loaded they are easier to fill. But I have mags that have been loaded for 10 years that get rotated for range time none have ever needed spring replacement .
I don't know if this is true for all mags all the time but that is my experience.

that is just the spring taking its initial set. actual wear comes from being cycled.

[winelover]

I've always adhered to refraining from loading magazines to their full capacity. High capacity mags with two rounds less and small ones, to one round less. I have found that it increases the feeding reliability on some semiautomatics.............might even help the springs last longer.

Winelover

[onelight]

I've always adhered to refraining from loading magazines to their full capacity. High capacity mags with two rounds less and small ones, to one round less. I have found that it increases the feeding reliability on some semiautomatics.............might even help the springs last longer.

Winelover
This has an additional advantage in some guns I have had , That would not accept a full mag with the slide forward. I don't know if this would ever cause a serious problem for most of us.

[tazman]

This has an additional advantage in some guns I have had , That would not accept a full mag with the slide forward. I don't know if this would ever cause a serious problem for most of us.

Good point!
Not being able to seat a magazine with the slide forward could be a serious issue during a confrontation. You may need to do a magazine change when you have the opportunity and not forced to when the gun is empty.
I have owned a couple of handguns that would not accept a full magazine with the slide closed. Having at least one round removed from the magazine would end that issue.
If you have a problem that requires more rounds than a full mag holds, being able to swap out a mag when there is time could be a serious advantage.

[higgins]

Does anyone else think that maybe the recommendation to load a couple rounds less than capacity is to slightly lessen the slide/bolt spring force needed to strip the first few rounds out of the magazine and into the chamber, therefore more reliable feeding in dirty firearms?