Charter .41, .44 & .45

[Good Cheer]

Been looking around at possibles for a stainless bed side snubby.
Charter has always been reliable and I regret letting get away from me the .357 carried in the Unitas.
So Charter has a nice selection these days; .41 Mag, .44 Special and .45 Colt.
That's a pretty tough bunch to choose between.
Any of you guys have experience with one of those?
The .41 with HBWC's loaded backwards seems the most attractive but I haven't run tests on loads in a .41 snubby either.

[mac60]

I have a .44 spl. Bulldog. With an upper end .44 spl. load, it's a handful for me. I couldn't imagine shooting a .41 mag. load in the same gun. I do have experience with .41 mag., as I have a mod. 657 S&W. I like the .44 spl. Bulldog - I've had it for many years and have never had a single problem with it.

[Love Life]

I didn’t know Charter Arms made a 45 Colt! Thanks for the heads up!

[Buzz Krumhunger]

I believe the .45 and .41 Magnums are built on a somewhat larger and heavier frame. I think I’d prefer the .45 Colt to the .41. More readily available ammunition and brass. And factory .41 mag ammo would be pretty unpleasant to shoot in the Charter, I’ll bet.

[Good Cheer]

I'd definitely tailor .41's to the piece.
A heavy HBWC loaded backwards has some good "points" in being heavy enough to keep moving, has the gasket punch effect on clothing, behaves as a wide flat nose until it expands and if it does expand so much the better.

If the .41 would let enough FPS be developed and hit anything on the 2nd shot.
If the boolit was stable enough.

Then again, wouldn't it be something if #410426 was unstable like a 358430.

Oh, Love Life, yeah, 45 Colt is always hard to turn away from!

[Buzz Krumhunger]

All my experiments (40 years ago) with HBWCs loaded backwards in .38 Spl revolvers resulted in keyholing and I gave up on the concept.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I see they make a 9mm too

[Tom W.]

Just a question..... At up close and personal range would it matter if your boolit keyholes?

[Eddie Southgate]

Buy the .44 Special in the 4" stainless . I shoot he Keith bullet with 7.5 grains of Unique , yup it sets back in your hand but you wont likely notice that in a self defence situation . I have arthritis in my hands so if i can handle it I'll bet you can with no trouble . I'd stay away from the magnums in the Charter due to the weight (too light) .

[Loiterer]

The caliber you want is the one to get. Any of the three is able to be up to snuff, you just need to figure how much messing around you want to do with it. (that is part of the fun).

I am satisfied with my .44 Bulldog for around the house use.

[pettypace]

So Charter has a nice selection these days; .41 Mag, .44 Special and .45 Colt.
That's a pretty tough bunch to choose between.
Any of you guys have experience with one of those?


I've never owned a Charter Arms. But that's going to change ASAP. A friend recently bought a .44 Bulldog and now I need one of my own. Here's why:

250372

That's a five shot gel test of a two-projectile load I worked up for my friend's Bulldog. The bullets are 150 grain wadcutters from an NOE mould.

Velocity: 610, 626, 632, 636, 637 ==> AVG: 628 f/s
Penetration: 16.25, 16.75, 17, 18, 18.5, 18.5, 19.5, 20.25, 21.5 ==> AVG: 18.5" (one bullet escaped)

OK, so they penetrate. But will they shoot?

250663 250664

This five-shot target was fired by another friend -- a new shooter who just got his pistol permit and has yet to own his own gun. The target was fired at 7 yards, deliberate double action with a two-handed hold. In the close-up, the two-projectile "pairs" are obvious.

In Massachusetts we don't have to worry about which caliber to buy -- only the .44 is "Mass Compliant." But you shouldn't worry either. Get the .44. Both the .41 and .45 have slightly bigger cylinders in slightly bigger frames, so they're slightly harder to put in your pocket. And what do you gain? The .41 has nothing going for it. And the .45 has a longer case with a smaller rim. It will be harder to eject your empties and there's more chance an empty case gets stuck under the ejector star.

Of course, you don't need two-projectile loads to make the .44 Bulldog bark and bite. On youtube, "Loads of Bacon" has some gel tests of his .44 Bulldog with cast lead HPs and Gold Dots. Pretty impressive.

Either way, I'm thinking the .44 Bulldog may be the ultimate pocket pistol. All it needs is the double action only hammer and the smaller rubber grips from the .38 Undercover.

[pietro]

The caliber you want is the one to get.

Any of the three is able to be up to snuff, you just need to figure how much messing around you want to do with it. (that is part of the fun).

I am satisfied with my .44 Bulldog for around the house use.


+1

Mine's a .44


https://i.imgur.com/xnfx58Ul.jpg

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE= (one bullet escaped).[/QUOTE]

They do that sometimes. I think they also drag off their wounded.


Charter Arms stuff won't win very many beauty contests, but they are affordable, and work.

The wife has a 5 shot Alum. frame one in .38Spec. Its also PINK!
I like shooting it too, but only do so when no one else is at the range.

[charlie b]

I always thought about one in .44spl after I tried shooting a friend's. Great little gun. I'd go with the .44spl too.

[rkrcpa]

Seems like the 41 is just begging for 41 Spl loads.

[mattw]

Love my .41. I also own the .40 and 9mm. The 41 is a little unpleasant with full house loads and with the tiny barrel, they just are not needed!

[RJM52]

Friend of mine had a very large collection of .45 ACP revolvers. He sold all of them off two years ago and only kept two...a Ruger Vaquero Birdshead and a Charter Arms Pitbull in .45 ACP.

As much as I love the .41 Magnum, this gun as said above, begs for a .41 Special loading...

That said, the round for this gun is the .45 ACP...no moon clips needed..

https://charterfirearms.com/products/74520-pitbull-45-acp-revolver.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/08/charter-arms-new-pitbull-revolver-in-45-acp/

Nice big bullet with a short case for easy ejection...and lots factory ammo a lot cheaper than any of the others...

Bob

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Now that would make a good H/D bedside gun

[Up North]

I really like my ca 44 bulldog. Nice size and weight for carrying. Recoil not bad at all. I load 240 swc over 6.3g unique. Nice trigger single and double action shoots to point of aim

[Good Cheer]

For .41, absolutely you'd be better off tailoring the loads to the piece. If you were shooting factory loads, well, you'd probably hurt yourself.

Thinking about this in a little different way...
The .41, the .44 and the .45 have an overlap in bullet weights. If I look at it as a comparison between them with maybe what, oh, perhaps a 230 grainer?
Which one would provide "better" performance at:
1. Penetration through heavy clothing and perp.
2. Expansion.
3. Energy dump.
4. What else?

Dangit if I could say I know which one would be "better".
I suspect the .41 would have the edge on penetration, expansion and energy dumping but somebody would have a lot of testing to do for shooter friendliness along with those other characteristics to make me agree as to which was "better".

If they'd make 4" barrels I'd already have one. Of each!

[Tom W.]

I didn’t know Charter Arms made a 45 Colt! Thanks for the heads up!

The Pitbull is .45 acp......

[pettypace]

Which one would provide "better" performance at:
1. Penetration through heavy clothing and perp.
2. Expansion.
3. Energy dump.
4. What else?

Dangit if I could say I know which one would be "better".
I suspect the .41 would have the edge on penetration, expansion and energy dumping but somebody would have a lot of testing to do for shooter friendliness along with those other characteristics to make me agree as to which was "better".


Maybe it's hard to choose because there really is no choice -- at least not in terms of performance. In another thread, Outpost75 recalled an old formula for handgun effectiveness:



If one would simply follow Keith's advice to use a caliber with starts with a "4", firing a soft lead, half ounce, 6-10 BHN bullet, having a meplat larger than half of the bullet diameter, at about 900 fps, you have the exact performance needed for a defensive handgun or outdoorsman's "packing pistol."


The .41 Magnum, .44 Special, and .45 Colt are all capable of satisfying the "Keith criteria." There really is no choice in terms of penetration, expansion, or energy. So, go to #4: "What else?"

In post #17 above:

...the round for this gun is the .45 ACP...no moon clips needed..

Nice big bullet with a short case for easy ejection...and lots of factory ammo a lot cheaper than any of the others...


If you ever need to reload in a hurry, that short case might make a big difference. And the ready availability and variety of factory ammo is a very good thing. I don't know about the little spring loaded extractor devices for the rimless cartridges. But maybe that works.

In post #11 above, I showed this 5-shot target fired from a .44 Bulldog by a novice shooter:

250664

That's a score of 98 with three or four X's. But it was fired with just five shots. The maximum score should be just 50-5X. It's easy to see how those five extra holes increase the score on a paper target. But imagine how five extra .44 caliber wadcutters, each with more than 16" of penetration, increase the chances of a vital hit or an incapacitating accumulation of hits on a bad guy. Of course, you could cook up a two-projectile load for a .41 or a .45. But the recipe can't be any easier than for the .44.

[Boogieman]

A 44 spcl. 250 gr.SWC HP cast, soft over as much Unique as your hand will stand. Works in my 3" GP100

[pettypace]

A 44 spcl. 250 gr.SWC HP cast, soft over as much Unique as your hand will stand. Works in my 3" GP100

That works in Loads of Bacon's .44 Bulldog, too. See video here: https://youtu.be/KD2FntxgG0A?t=138

[35remington]

The spring loaded extractor thingy that unchains you from moon clips in the Charter revolvers also makes them harder to reload. And of course a speedloader is out, so potentially better to use rimmed cartridges in revolvers to avoid moon clip frailty and allow use of a speedloader.

[winelover]

Out of curiosity, went to Charter Arm's site. Not seeing any Bulldogs chambered for 41 Mag or 45 LC. They have Bulldogs in 40 S&W and 45 ACP. Can anyone provide the link?

BTW, I'm happy with my 44 Special CA "Fit for Duty" Bulldog. It is a handful with anything over moderate loadings. I carry it mainly while bow hunting.

Winelover

[Uncle Grinch]

Got my wife a 44 Bulldog and am trying these 185 gn wadcutters. No range time yet.

250871

[onelight]

Out of curiosity, went to Charter Arm's site. Not seeing any Bulldogs chambered for 41 Mag or 45 LC. They have Bulldogs in 40 S&W and 45 ACP. Can anyone provide the link?

BTW, I'm happy with my 44 Special CA "Fit for Duty" Bulldog. It is a handful with anything over moderate loadings. I carry it mainly while bow hunting.

Winelover

Here ya go , not sure if the 41 is discontinued
https://charterfirearms.com/collections/bulldog/products/model-74530
https://charterfirearms.com/products/model-74120?_***=1&_sid=bf44482ba&_ss=r

[Petrol & Powder]

All my experiments (40 years ago) with HBWCs loaded backwards in .38 Spl revolvers resulted in keyholing and I gave up on the concept.

I also experimented with loading HBWC's backwards and the results were not good.
Accuracy was terrible and the skirt often separated from the bullet resulting in reduced mass and less penetration.

I think the reverse loaded HBWC is one of those concepts that looks good at first glance but in reality is one of those myths that just will not die.

[Gamsek]

I also experimented with loading HBWC's backwards and the results were not good.
Accuracy was terrible and the skirt often separated from the bullet resulting in reduced mass and less penetration.

I think the reverse loaded HBWC is one of those concepts that looks good at first glance but in reality is one of those myths that just will not die.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/c198dcc8a67649310307556267b61f9e.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/afeea665bee64090bdb1126935580c0c.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/ef4ae762c466dd9e7aefd994cd1cc316.jpg

Reverse HBWC works well with this design. Tested at 10m and 35meters. My is from MP, 214grs in HB (can make solid also).

[35remington]

Nearly all by current measurement fail to meet minimum standards according to currently accepted protocols that stress a certain amount of penetration is required. The expansion is too disk like.

If such things do not matter to that individual I suppose I can see where they might think they are acceptable. They would fail pretty badly where barriers or an intervening arm were involved.

[pettypace]

I'd like to know more about the "greenies" in the picture: What was the bullet alloy? What was the muzzle velocity? What were they shot into? And with what results?

Just estimating the expanded diameter from the picture to be about 0.75", a quick calculation shows that it would take something just north of 1000 f/s to reach the FBI minimum 12" penetration in bare gel. I'm not sure how many 214 grain 1000 f/s loads a Bulldog could take. Probably more than I'd want to shoot from one.

Even so, I wouldn't dismiss that MP mould out of hand. If the expansion were less, say 0.6", then you could get over 15" of penetration at about 800 f/s. That's not far from the Keith recipe (.40+ caliber, half ounce of soft lead, 900 ft/s) that Outpost75 posted recently. And a .44 Bulldog could easily handle that -- as could the shooter. The shootee -- not so much.

[Gamsek]

I'd like to know more about the "greenies" in the picture: What was the bullet alloy? What was the muzzle velocity? What were they shot into? And with what results?

Just estimating the expanded diameter from the picture to be about 0.75", a quick calculation shows that it would take something just north of 1000 f/s to reach the FBI minimum 12" penetration in bare gel. I'm not sure how many 214 grain 1000 f/s loads a Bulldog could take. Maybe a few more than I'd want to shoot from one.

Even so, I wouldn't dismiss that MP mould out of hand. If the expansion were less, say 0.6", then you could get over 15" of penetration at about 800 f/s. That's not far from the Keith recipe (.40+ caliber, half ounce of soft lead, 900 ft/s) that Outpost75 posted recently. And a .44 Bulldog could easily handle that -- as could the shooter. The shootee -- not so much.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/dba1f22a24f230957b30556a61d01413.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/cdfbcc5d9661caadd2e6ee59bf5e30f9.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/34e40e8e67a05ca013a8af662dd774cd.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/8951e438b26bae69adffafa6d2911d03.plist

All my HP bullets are made from pure lead with 2-3% to max 5% tin, that 432-395 MP Mold were made from pure with 2-3% tin.

I have shoot this one in soft soaked paper, water and large man sized ice cones at 35m that’s why I know they fly straight in “reversed mode”. Shoot at 10m
at target-perfect. All my recovered bullets lost 1grs max and got perfect mushrooms. Tried also through heavy double layered clothes+T-shirt backed by water jug and soaked paper. Expansion was less but still good. Home defends load? Yes.
If someone wants to see me shooting reversed HBWC at 35 m hitting and breaking man sized ice cones send me pm with your email. I can post target at 10m shooting offhand with reversed. It’s stabile because of shape of cavity. Velocity was from
750 to 850fps, have few more 44 moulds that get more of my attention.
Will recommend the best 44 bullet for Charter 3” and home defence use in my next post[emoji3596]

[Gamsek]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/dbe0a20057ee9319e4dbe7ff372c6ba0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/de035eb8bbec670a550864dbda0e8d1d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/17857d44ead0e03d5a5bb5d822577d19.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/fb4319db6979d641e03f52142fe73168.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/f2c35375167100a0f53ce928b2c85af4.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/408047a063dd75a41aea800d411aa35f.plist

MP Molds 180-SWC was designed for lighter revolvers also as a home defence load, with one mould you get 4sets of pins FP, penta HP, deep HP (180grs) Cup HP so you can tweak your alloy, velocity or change HP pins to get what you want (12”?). https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/26d650d6836bf4c5112ac897bce91371.jpg

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/44-180-swc-hollow-point-plain-base-2-cavity-mold/

[Petrol & Powder]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/c198dcc8a67649310307556267b61f9e.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/afeea665bee64090bdb1126935580c0c.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191108/ef4ae762c466dd9e7aefd994cd1cc316.jpg

Reverse HBWC works well with this design. Tested at 10m and 35meters. My is from MP, 214grs in HB (can make solid also).


Pretty pictures. What were they shot into? HOW FAR DID THEY PENETRATE? And what was the velocity of that 214 grain HBWC ?

I apologize for being the jerk here, but the reverse loaded hollow base isn't a miracle bullet.

[pettypace]

Got my wife a 44 Bulldog and am trying these 185 gn wadcutters. No range time yet.

250871

That looks like a good bullet for the 44 Bulldog. Dunno what velocity you'll get from 6.0 grains of Red Dot. But anything from 600 f/s to 800 f/s should give FBI approved penetration without too much recoil.

[Tom W.]

Excuse me! I looked and obviously missed the .45 Colt revolver. Thanks for the link.

[Gamsek]

Pretty pictures. What were they shot into? HOW FAR DID THEY PENETRATE? And what was the velocity of that 214 grain HBWC ?

I apologize for being the jerk here, but the reverse loaded hollow base isn't a miracle bullet.

I never claimed it’s a miracle bullet, I just said MINE fly STRAIGHT. If you look at design of that HBWC you will see that reversed 432-395 becomes a HP bullet with gentle bevel base and huge HP. I never made any scientific tests with it, I was just curious how they work in reversed mode. Have other 180,200,250 and 260grs HP .44 Molds to use for hunt etc....

Green ones were shoot into soaked wet paper. 750fps of 850fps-can’t remember. They did not penetrate a lot (obviously), I did not measure the penetration, but based on what I saw I would used them for MY home defence load when I would want maximum expansion and less penetration.

And as you saw from my one time non-scientific test with heavy clothes-where I used 432-395 in:
FP original mode, reversed mode and reversed with .320 RB inserted, even reversed HBWC (or a huge HP without RB) can penetrate and expands well. Based on that observations I would not hesitate to use it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191109/6880674ab49fc5a6d857294a0b30fbfc.jpg
This bullet was found 2 months after I killed few huge ice cones with 5grs of fast burning powder and reversed HBWC at 35 meters. Not only accurate, they fly straight and they did expand.

[Good Cheer]

My HBWC "formula" is heavy bullet and much speed equals expansion and penetration. You need to push it fast but you also need the weight for it to keep moving.
That makes for much snubby recoil. However, being able to crank it up in a revolver rated for "magnum" service means you can have heavy bullet as well as much speed. So for things that go bump in the night a magnum gets the nod. Charter said they have the 2 1/2" barrel in .41. Not a deer hunting gun, well, except when the better 2/3's is standing in the door arguing with them over eating her back porch flowers.
If I get one of these rascals gonna have to test the #41026 and see if it will penetrate much. Tested it in a percussion revolver and it penetrated less than half as much as the Lee 195 SWC and #41028. Ol' #41027 would get tested backwards. But it sure is a pain to get good castings filled out. And as previously mentioned, wouldn't it be a hoot if #410426 tumbled like the old 200 grain .38's.

Well, meanwhile, 45ACP will be the bump thumper. No doubts about what it does with heavy drag chute hollow points.
250921

[Groo]

Groo here
For those who dont know ,,, The bulldog is a 44 spec and the some what larger pitbull is in 45 acp,45colt and 41MAG........
More steel in the cylinder on the pitbull.....................

[megasupermagnum]

Wow, Charter arms offers a 41 magnum bulldog? And Ruger still won't make a 41 magnum GP100?

No doubt 41 magnum offers more usefulness than 44 special or 45 ACP. 45 ACP would be a fun range gun, but I'm not sold on the ejector. For a bedside gun I always thought the 6" 357 magnum target model had a cool simplicity look, and shoots great.

[Good Cheer]

Starting on loads' development with the .41.
It's going to be interesting to see how much penetration (and maybe even expansion) is achievable with what boolit weights with manageable recoil.
Definitely leaning towards semi-kinda-heavy hollow point full flat faced wadcutters.

[Paul105]

I have a Charter Arms .41 mag Pug (23 oz) and a Taurus Titanium 2.5” .41 Magnum (21 oz)

Here are some chrono results from the Charter 2.5”. Labradar results at the muzzle and 55 deg f (45 deg f for the last two).

180gr Barnes ….… 1,195 fps (21 es)
230gr HSM …….… 1,145 fps (28 es)
230gr Underwood .. 1,263 fps (18 es)
250gr Grizzly …….. 1,169 fps (4 es)
210gr Fed Swift A Frame .. 1,191 fps (1 es)
210gr Grizzly Punch …….. 1,239 fps (20 es)

Grizzly Punch is a bit too long to function reliably in either. Pulled three of the facory bullets. The factory rounds were loaded with 22.0gr of powder that looks exactly like H110/W296.
Resized two cases and loaded one with 20.5gr of the Grizzly factory powder (w/factory primer) and one with 20.5gr H110 (w/CCI350) and reseated the bullets to an OAL of 1.581”.
Loaded the third bullet in a starline .41 special case primed with CCI350 and 18.0gr of the Grizzly factory powder from the original cartridge. Crimped in the bullets crimp grove it’s OAL was 1.528”.

Following are the chronograph for the 2.5” Tauras Ti Tracker. LabRadar 35 deg F.

150gr Underwood Leghigh Xtr Defender …. 1,342 fps
210gr Punch – 41 Special 18.0gr H110 …. 1,149 fps
210gr Punch – Reseated 1.581” Factory … 1,115 fps (no discernable diff between powders – (ES - 20 fps)
250gr WFNGC Grizzly Cartridge factory …. 1,159 fps
215gr SWCBB HiTec, 6.8gr Univ Deep Seated and crimped over front dr band …. 839 fps.

The 250gr WFNGC Grizzly is a handful in both guns. Overall, the Taurus recoils a bit less than the Charter. The Charter recoil reminds me of shooting similar loads thru a S&W M329 Ti/Sc 44 mag. The 215gr SWC over 6.8 univ is easy shooting recoil wise.

In my hands, both guns shoot quite high at 25 yds with heavier loads.

Here are the two guns:

https://photos.imageevent.com/paul105/hobby/thumbnail_IMG_315121.jpg

[Good Cheer]

Working with the Lee 195 SWC's (220 & 250 grains), the NEI SWC GC (240 grains), Lyman WC (212 grains), Lee RN (240 grains), Lyman RN (245 grains) and soon the NEI RN (185 grains).
Got a really fun mold too with a pointed design but that will probably just be used in the rifle. The big gas checked WC is a bore rider that will be tried in the rifle.
254057

[RJM52]

Good Cheer...was wondering where you got the unique mold...

[Good Cheer]

After Walt at NEI had passed away and his daughter and son in law tried running the business, I sent a four cavity mold back to them to get it recut to larger size bullets with three SWC and one spire point. Had picked up the mold 2nd hand out of a box of many in a little store in southeast Texas. Paid maybe ten dollars for it. The recutting charges were very reasonable and the work was well done. Afterwards one of the SWC's was reworked to produce the big bore rider.
This thing.
254292
Recently been thinking about it getting a hollow point, deep and wide, but first would like to see how it performs in the .41 Mag NEF single shot.

[Good Cheer]

Pardon, I think the way the alterations went was making a spire point cavity into the heavy bore rider and the GC base on the remaining spire point made into a plain base.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've had a Charter 44 Special or two since the 80's, light and handy, but not a fun plinker with any but the lightest loads. Also have a 2" titanium 45 LC, its on the Taurus 'L' frame, kind of like a 2" Tracker, it is bulkier than the Charter but also a handful. We (wife & I) carry with shot for rattlers, bullets in black bear country. Both are more accurate than most expect from short barrels. My first choice would be the Charter 44, then the new, larger Charter 45. Bud's lists Charter 44's with 4" and 6" barrels with adjustable sights too. Long ago, had a blue Charter 44 Target 4", one of those guns I regretted trading long after the fact. If they bring out the 45 in a 4" adjustable sights I will have to have one.

[RJM52]

".41 Mag NEF single shot"...excuse me....and who rebored that one...JES? I have one of the 16.5" TC Collectors Assoc. barrels on a TC thumbhole stock carbine...a great shooter...

Sounds like a great mold...

Have you chronographed that 295...? I have a 300 grain Mountain Mold that really shoots great from a FA 83...19.0 H110 at 1260 from a 6" barrel...

[RJM52]

For a snubbie .41....

https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83&products_id=282&zenid=rqk8lpi65bd9pslilemfvuf2d5



For a snubbie .44...

https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70&products_id=280&zenid=rqk8lpi65bd9pslilemfvuf2d5



For a snubbie .45...

https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=272&zenid=rqk8lpi65bd9pslilemfvuf2d5

[Good Cheer]

".41 Mag NEF single shot"...excuse me....and who rebored that one...JES? I have one of the 16.5" TC Collectors Assoc. barrels on a TC thumbhole stock carbine...a great shooter...

Sounds like a great mold...

Have you chronographed that 295...? I have a 300 grain Mountain Mold that really shoots great from a FA 83...19.0 H110 at 1260 from a 6" barrel...

Righto! JES did a fine job.
No, I haven't chrono'd yet.

[Kuduking]

I have both the Bulldog Classic 3" .44 Special and the Mag Pug .41 Magnum. The Bulldog is on the "Large" frame and the Mag Pug is on the "XL" frame. Both are 5- shooters.

The barrel, cylinder walls and top strap are fairly thick on the .41 Mag Pug. These guns are quite strong, but being lightweight they will end up as an unreliable rattle bucket after thousands of full bore magnum rounds. It's just not what they are meant for.

Remington 180 HTP factory ammo (Barnes XPB bullet) - 1222 fps 23 sd, 50 ft 1-7/8" -0-
Magnus 215 SWC, 18.0 gr LilGun - no chrono, 50 ft 2" -0-

Little revolver shoots to the sights, but the above loads are a hand full. 41 Special loads are more pleasant:

Rimrock 235 SWC, 8.0 gr Power Pistol - 963 fps 4 sd, 50 ft 2.5", -0-
Magnus 215 SWC, 5.5 gr Titegroup - 878 fps 8 sd, 50 ft 1-3/8" -0-
GT 175 RNHP, 8.5 gr Power Pistol - 1064 fps 11 sd, 50 ft 2" -0-

In the Linebaugh Penetration Tests, an equivalent load to the Rimrock above penetrated 26". I think thats sufficient for a lightweight outdoors protection load.

294596

The GT bullet might be a nice defensive load against thinner critters:

294595

The factory rubberish grips are OK, but the Pachmayrs Compacts are better for the stout loads. Also, the cylinder fits SAAMI-spec 210 grain jacketed factory loads - the Rimrock bullet seated in the crimp groove in Magnum brass is too long. All the above handloads are in Starline .41 Special brass.

[RJM52]

Has anyone seen any of the CA guns for sale... I've been watching for a .41 but have not seen any for sale in over a year...

[Catshooter]

My opinion, I think most all Charters are victim to the general shortage we see. Being inexpensive, they fill a lot of first-time buyer demand. Gunbroker, for example has seven (!) Bulldogs for sale.

I expect them to remain in the slim pickens territory for quite a while so if you see one, I'd jump hard & fast were I you.

[winelover]

Charter Arms revolvers were never that popular. Most LGS in Detroit didn't carry them. Occasionally, ran across one in 38 caliber. Bulldogs, I've never seen one in LGS in Michigan or here in Arkansas. I had to purchase my Bulldog off GB, sight unseen, before the current madness. LGS couldn't even order one from their suppliers. However, I did use them to handle the transfer.

Winelover

[Kuduking]

I was speaking with the gunsmith at the factory a couple of weeks ago, and he said they haven't made a .41 Mag Pug in a while, and have been making mostly the aluminum frame models. Not sure if that is due to demand, or a materials supply issue.

[megasupermagnum]

Charter Arms revolvers were never that popular. Most LGS in Detroit didn't carry them. Occasionally, ran across one in 38 caliber. Bulldogs, I've never seen one in LGS in Michigan or here in Arkansas. I had to purchase my Bulldog off GB, sight unseen, before the current madness. LGS couldn't even order one from their suppliers. However, I did use them to handle the transfer.

Winelover

I see them fairly often out here. There's definitely less of them than Ruger's and Smiths though, they are rare enough they stick out. Not too long ago I was in a gun shop in Glencoe, MN, and they had a 6" 357 magnum target model for something like $525. I kind of wish I had bought it now.

[Paul105]

Earlier in this thread, I posted some chrono results for the 41 Pug. Have had it for several years. Here's a picture.

https://photos.imageevent.com/paul105/hobby/large/thumbnail_IMG_4123.jpg

[nhithaca]

Charter Arms is really a small company compared to Ruger and S&W. I read somewhere that they only were making about 25-30,000 guns a year (a while ago). Ruger most likely does that in a month or two. I have noticed that different guns from them tend to come up in batches on Gun Broker. Suspect that they make dedicated runs of different calibers on a rotating basis.
I have a 44 and a 45ACP along with a 38 6 shot and a 32 6 shot. All are full SS guns (no alloy frames) and the 45ACP has the black finish. The 44 has a factory laser. Both the 44 and the 45ACP are brutal with factory loads.

[cabezaverde]

I have toured the plant. The current owner is a nice gentleman who I believe would go out of his way to satisfy a customer.

[BucketBack]

I have the 44 Bulldog, I think it has the 2.5" barrel. I need to make some empty brass.

[Led]

I carry a Bulldog in .44 spl. I love it. My loads are heavy and slow.

Later,
Stephen

[pettypace]

I carry a Bulldog in .44 spl. I love it. My loads are heavy and slow.

Later,
Stephen

+1 for heavy and slow with the Bulldog.

It shouldn't be hard to show that for civilian self-defense, a 220 grain wadcutter at 625 f/s from a .44 snubby would be as effective as the classic FBI load from a 4-inch .38. But to avoid hijacking, that should start a new thread (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?437420-44-Special-quot-target-quot-WC-from-a-snubby-vs-38-Special-FBI-Load-from-service-revolver).