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[SunUp]

Hi everyone,

I'm (hopefully) going to be a swager in the near future. Why swaging? I"m not in the best domicile setting at the moment for casting etc... There are many positives I can see in swaging but also some stumpers that I hope some of you could answer.

- Although I don't cast at home, I have had experience casting 45-70 bullets for black powder shooting. Cast the bullet, put it into a lubrisizer and ready to load. As far as swaging the bullet, if I use a groove tool, I realize that the displaced lead will malform the bullet. However, can I just run the bullet through the lubrisizer and reset it to uniformity? If not, how would I go about reshaping the bullet to the correct diameter?

- I also would like to swage bullets for an 1858 remington replica 45 long colt using black powder. Would I have to make these bullets the same as the 45-70 with grooves and lube or can I use the base guard punch and attach the gas checks to the bullet? Are the gas checks for use with black powder or more meant for smokeless?

- Last question, promise: When ordering the dies for the above calibers, can I order one set to handle both then resize as needed or do I need seperate dies for each caliber?

Thanks everyone for any info. you can provide! BTW: It will the Walnut Hill Press that I plan on purchasing soon(and receiving ............... :)))

[Buckshot]

Hi everyone,

I'm (hopefully) going to be a swager in the near future. Why swaging? I"m not in the best domicile setting at the moment for casting etc... There are many positives I can see in swaging but also some stumpers that I hope some of you could answer.

And the major downside to swaging is the expence. Another is the inability to honestly swage GG boolits.

- Although I don't cast at home, I have had experience casting 45-70 bullets for black powder shooting. Cast the bullet, put it into a lubrisizer and ready to load. As far as swaging the bullet, if I use a groove tool, I realize that the displaced lead will malform the bullet.

What groove tool is that?

However, can I just run the bullet through the lubrisizer and reset it to uniformity?

Maybe, and maybe not. It would depend upon nosepunch fit, temper of the boolit, and how 'Deformed' it is. Remember, in a lube-size die the only part you're sizing is the surface. Yet you can alter other parts of it too, via pressure.

If not, how would I go about reshaping the bullet to the correct diameter?

If the lube-size die doesn't work, possibly a partial trip into the swage die would work.

- I also would like to swage bullets for an 1858 remington replica 45 long colt using black powder. Would I have to make these bullets the same as the 45-70 with grooves and lube or can I use the base guard punch and attach the gas checks to the bullet? Are the gas checks for use with black powder or more meant for smokeless?

GC's were designed to be used with smokless's higher velocity & pressures. No one is going to take your birthday away if you use them with BP tho'. Best senario for a short squatty peestol boolit is to cast one as close to the 'as swaged' size and shape as possible. Then lube them before swaging. Since the lube is not compressable the LG's won't collapse. They WILL be altered in depth and width to one degree or another. Hense my suggestion to try for a cast design close to the final swaged shape.

http://www.fototime.com/069CB1A7DC6AF34/standard.jpg

I made a swage die to form a HB-SWC pistol boolit (I also have the Walnut Hill press :-)). These were all cast of WW type alloy. The 200gr commercial slug was hard. The more you move lead around the more drastic the GG's will be affected. If you look at the swaged commercial slug, it looks to have a crimp groove. What caused this was lube escaping from the LG and migrating up past the front drive band where it lay. It was then trapped, and when the nose was formed the lube made another skinny LG.

http://www.fototime.com/F6696E3245BE49B/standard.jpg

This was a 38 caliber die made to form HBWC's. "A" was already a WC so the only real change was the addition of the HB, so as you can see the 2 bottom LG's were affected most. "B" is the Lee 358-158 RF. It's crimp groove had lube in it. Since the nose was close to the swaged one, the crimp groove was hardly affected, unlike the LG where the HB was formed.

"C" is the 195gr RNPB Lyman 358430. It had 2 of it's 3 LG's lubed. The 2 skinny lube line features were formed by escaped lube from the grooves and represent lube trapped in the top LG and lube trapped above the top drive band when the nose was formed.

- Last question, promise: When ordering the dies for the above calibers, can I order one set to handle both then resize as needed or do I need seperate dies for each caliber?

I would REALLY suggest one for each. Buy the one you're most interested in at first and see how it works out for what you're wanting to do. You might have to alter your plans.

Thanks everyone for any info. you can provide! BTW: It will the Walnut Hill Press that I plan on purchasing soon(and receiving ............... :)))

And a VERY hearty welcome to the board. We jus' loves questions, and pictures :-)

..................Buckshot

[SunUp]

Thanks for the welcome and info. Buckshot.
The groove tool I'm referencing is the HCT-3. It has two groove wheels that can impart grooves that are .080" wide and .020" deep. Although there's only two wheels, you can move the boolit so that one wheel follows a groove already made and the other makes a new groove. Repeat for as many grooves you'd like. Corbins site does reference the fact that displaced lead will increase the diameter so his recommendation is to buy two die sets. A smaller diameter die to form the boolit, then after grooving and lubing reswage in the final diameter die. A bit severe(not to mention expensive) solution indeed. I'm not sure just how much the diameter will increase after grooving so I'll have to experiment with the lubrisizer first and see what happens. I'm assuming after the diameter is expanded that I wouldn't be able to reswage the boolit in the original size die? I can't think of another cheaper solution to this one.

-SunUp

[SunUp]

Here's an update to my previous post for ideas on how best to add grease grooves to a swaged bullet. I welcome any suggestions that the more experienced members may have.

Rather than two swaging dies as mentioned, I plan on purchasing the core swage and point forming dies in the final diameter needed. I swage the core and form the bullet then add 4 grease grooves using the HCT-3 grooving tool. This will displace some lead on either side of the grooves increasing the diameter in these areas. I can then run the bullet through a lubersizer with a die in the same or slightly smaller diameter than the swage die set(depending on the die sizes available for the lubersizer). Lube will be deposited in the grooves once completed. The bullet will then be placed in the swaging die once more and 'reformed' to ensure all surfaces are round and true.

There's some concern as to whether there will be enough lube in the grooves created to work effectively. Question, if I use a cup shaped base punch, will lube be deposited in the cup when run through the lubersizer? If so, this should add sufficient lube for BP shooting.

Thoughts?

~SunUp