Fire forming 257 Weatherby to 7x61 Sharpe & Hart

[15meter]

I've been promised some 257 Weatherby brass, I have no need for it as 257. I do have a need for 7x61 S&H. The 257 is 3mm longer than the Sharpe and Hart.

Considering full length sizing in the 7x61 die with the de-cap/sizing plug removed. Then powder/toilet paper/plug of some kind and then make a mess of the backyard.

First this is old brass. Should I anneal because of age hardening/unknown number of firings before starting? Definitely going to anneal before loading for the S&H.

Any guesses on a starting load for the fire forming and best powder to use other than the generic fast pistol powder?

Wax plug in the neck or just toilet paper wad? Toilet paper wad worked well for me going 30-30 to 38-55 but this is much stiffer brass, don't know if it's going to need more pressure to get the neck blown out.

Anybody done this? Or a similar case conversion?

[15meter]

Wow, 24+ hours and no one has weighed in. Guess I'm on my own trying to blow myself up.

Probably won't get a chance to try until next week end, there's still time to save me from myself.

[stubshaft]

I would anneal the brass first (it couldn't hurt). My favorite fire forming load is 16.0 red dot topped with cream of wheat (or something similar) and topped off with a toilet paper plug. I use this load for all of my rifle fire forming (.375 H&H to 458 Win Mag, 25/06 to 338/280 AI etc.).

[Walks]

My Dad would form 7x61 S&H from .264Win Mag Brass. He got the .264 from a Lodge Brother who had blown up a rifle with his first reloaded cartridge. Wouldn't ever consider Handloaded ammo again. All the better for Us as he shot about 300rds of Rifle ammo a year.
I digress.

Formed the same way you are doing with Unique and a WAX Plug. Heated the case neck with a match and pushed a cake of canning wax onto the case mouth.

Had to fire them off at the range, Neighbors complained about him doing it at home. Apparently Christians like to sleep in on Sat mornings.

[Thin Man]

PM headed your way.

[15meter]

.

Formed the same way you are doing with Unique and a WAX Plug. Heated the case neck with a match and pushed a cake of canning wax onto the case mouth.

Had to fire them off at the range, Neighbors complained about him doing it at home. Apparently Christians like to sleep in on Sat mornings.

Great idea, the heating the neck with a match, got to make it easier to do the wax plug thing.

Probably do it at the range, it's a buddy's rifle, I'll prep the cases and we'll do it when we are out whacking dingers. The neighbors already think I'm crazy enough with out shooting off more guns in the back yard than I already do.

[Elkins45]

I would just sell/trade the 257. There’s a lot of demand for good 257 brass.

[15meter]

I'm getting the brass for free, I've got some unknown primers, ancient Unique and 4227 and old church candles.

Zero cost, and I wouldn't get nearly as much cash out of selling the old brass as new 7x61 Sharpe and Hart would cost plus the shipping.

And the weather around here is going downhill. Too cold to shoot/soft water sail/ride motorcycle and too warm to hardwater sail.

And when the boys at the mill fire up the grain dryer, I'll get a fresh jug of corn nibs from under the dryer. They work better than corn meal--the stuff is free.

[15meter]

I would just sell/trade the 257. There’s a lot of demand for good 257 brass.

And have you priced 7x61 Sharpe and Hart?

[44magLeo]

7mm Rem Mag is easy to find and not cost much. Pushing the shoulder back and trimming sounds just as easy as what you are doing.
Leo

[15meter]

7mm Rem Mag is easy to find and not cost much. Pushing the shoulder back and trimming sounds just as easy as what you are doing.
Leo

Having started by trying to reform 300 Win Mag to 7x61 before moving to 7 Mag, fire forming sounds dramatically easier.

And I've reformed 300 Weatherby's to 300 H&H, I've had better luck with that than my initial trys with reforming either the 7 mag or 300 win mag.

Thanks for the suggestion of the 7 mag, been there, done that. Wasn't happy with the results and I didn't even get the stupid t-shirt for trying:wink:

[15meter]

The continuing saga of the 7x61 S&H, in the shed last night, took 5 257 Weatherby's and first ran them thru a 300 H&H die then the 7x61 die.
Much better results than either the 7 mag or the 300 mag. No wrinkles on the radius of the neck.

For grins I tried 5 pieces of 7 mag the same way, before I had been just resizing the 7 mag in the 7x61 sizer die, nasty little wrinkles in the neck radius.

Using the 300 H&H die as an intermediate step made a dramatic reduction in the neck wrinkles, but did not eliminate them.

Also tried 5 pieces of 300 win mag, but they had been annealed, formed nicely with the 300 H&H, crumpled the shoulder with the 7x61 die. Into the recycle bin for those. Have to find where I stashed the rest of the 300 win mag brass to try on un-annealed brass.


And these wrinkles are not lube dents, much sharper, almost creases. I was careful about a clean die and no lube on the neck just the body while forming.

Hope to check them for chambering this evening before loading up for a trial at fire forming.

[HangFireW8]

Annealing before expanding to another caliber is often a bad idea. To make my AI cases, I expand the neck first, then anneal, then fireform. If I expand right after annealing, I get an accordion.

[15meter]

Annealing before expanding to another caliber is often a bad idea. To make my AI cases, I expand the neck first, then anneal, then fireform. If I expand right after annealing, I get an accordion.

As a rule I don't anneal before trying to re-form cases, these 5 were annealed in an effort to eliminate the neck wrinkles I was getting with the once fired cases.

The intermediate step with the 300 H&H die has improved my conversion of the 7 mag brass considerably. I'm going to continue playing with that and perhaps some other dies to see if I can get it to work with cheaper, more readily available brass before I reform more of the 257 Weatherby brass. Although the Weatherby has actually been the best looking conversion so far.

[Texas by God]

Would 20 Weatherby 7mm Weatherby brass help? I see them on my shelf daily and don’t need them.

[15meter]

Would 20 Weatherby 7mm Weatherby brass help? I see them on my shelf daily and don’t need them.

Thanks for the offer, I've got enough to play with here and postage would negate any savings.

I am just playing in the shop to see if I can do it more than anything, waiting for the ice to get here so I can go sailing.

Didn't make it on the ice once last year, spent too much time dealing with the drama surrounding moving my mother into assisted living.

Things are a little calmer this year.

[15meter]

Finally got out to fire-form both the 257 Weatherby and the 7mm Remington Mag. I had made up 5 of each.

The 257 came out beautifully, the 7 mag very close behind. May have come up with a procedure that doesn't crease the necks. Next try is the 300 Win Mag that failed horribly before.

And still too cold to ride the bike and too warm to sail, so I'll keep wasting my time in the shed, the life of an old reprobate, it's a tough life but somebodies got to do it.

[Danth]

Just came across your thread. Been trying to resize 300 Win Mag into 7x61 without success. Have you ever come up with a solution?

[15meter]

Just came across your thread. Been trying to resize 300 Win Mag into 7x61 without success. Have you ever come up with a solution?

I've got a 300 H&H die, used that as an intermediate step, then the 7x61 die, trim to length then anneal before fire forming.

Imperial sizing wax, NONE on the neck.

Into the die when forming a 1/16" at a time, back out of the die, turn the case 20-30 degrees then back in the die. I usually add more Imperial half way through the forming.

I use a Rockchucker bolted to a 1/2"x5"x18" plate of steel that is mortised into my bench top. There is an identical backing plate under the bench that the top plate is bolted to in 6 places. The bench is tied directly to the 4"x6" posts that are sunk 4' into concrete. The posts are the framing timbers of the building.

My bench is reasonably strong.

7 Remington Mag is also a solution that is much easier if you have access to 7 Mag.

Good luck, post if you have success.

[15meter]

And for final forming after annealing, you may want to make a custom shellholder by grinding off .010 or more off the top of the shellholder. That will let you push the shoulder back a little more to aid in chambering.

I've had some spring back during forming that has made it difficult to chamber.

Don't use the ground shellholder during initial forming.

You want all the strength you can get so you don't break the shellholder.

[Wayne Smith]

Something not yet mentioned - check your case mouths. ANY flaw in the case mouth results in a crease or even a split. Trim your cases so you have a perfect case mouth before sizing down or up.

[Danth]

Great advice guys. Thanks. Now I've just got to fetch a 300 H&H die and spend some time at the grinder. Wish I had a use for the ruined 300 Win mag cases I crushed!

[15meter]

Great advice guys. Thanks. Now I've just got to fetch a 300 H&H die and spend some time at the grinder. Wish I had a use for the ruined 300 Win mag cases I crushed!

Depends on how crushed they are, I've done 43 Spanish on belted magnum cases. All is not lost. At least if you have an old rolling block that needs to be fed.

And I used the 300 Ouch & Ouch die to start the forming because I had it on the bench. Don't have that die, try something else to start the process.

[tward]

When I reform cases I’ve found the lubes on the case makes a big difference. I had the best luck with Lee lube, the stuff that comes in the tube. I dilute it with water or alcohol (faster drying) and apply a thin coat with my fingers, let it dry and then run the brass into the resizing dies in stages to allow the brass to flow slowly. Just my 2 cents. Good luck and keeps safe . Have fun, Tim

[15meter]

The problem with this is the "double venturi" shoulder from the Weatherby, you are trying to drive that radical shoulder almost straight down the case.

It seems to work better to straighten the case back out, then re-establish a new shoulder where it needs to be. This particular case conversion is pretty radical.

Lube is absolutely a critical part of the equation, but I'm not sure there is any case lube that will let you push that shoulder straight down the length of the case.

If it's out there I want to know about it because I'll start using it in a heartbeat.

[Jim22]

I've been promised some 257 Weatherby brass, I have no need for it as 257. I do have a need for 7x61 S&H. The 257 is 3mm longer than the Sharpe and Hart.

Considering full length sizing in the 7x61 die with the de-cap/sizing plug removed. Then powder/toilet paper/plug of some kind and then make a mess of the backyard.

First this is old brass. Should I anneal because of age hardening/unknown number of firings before starting? Definitely going to anneal before loading for the S&H.

Any guesses on a starting load for the fire forming and best powder to use other than the generic fast pistol powder?

Wax plug in the neck or just toilet paper wad? Toilet paper wad worked well for me going 30-30 to 38-55 but this is much stiffer brass, don't know if it's going to need more pressure to get the neck blown out.

Anybody done this? Or a similar case conversion?

15 Meter,

Beware of necking up Weatherby brass. The problem is the curves in the shoulder. I put together a wildcat some years ago - a .400 belted Whelen using .240 Weatherby brass. Even in those days the brass was very expensive and I lost a lot of them trying to neck them up. The rounded shoulders just collapsed, pushing the neck down inside the body. I finally made some intermediate sizing die buttons so I could do it in small incremants. It did help to anneal the brass but it was a lot of work to neck up tha cases.

The belted .240 brass has the same head diameter as the .30-06. But it holds a grain or two less capacity. The belted cases solved the headspace problem that always plagued the .400 Whelan but at a price. I did it on a 98 Mauser action which didn't need any alterations except a new barrel. Killed the biggest moose I ever shot with it at nearly 200 yards. Barnes 400 grain copper tube bullets in .411 diameter.

Jim

[Walks]

First time I've heard of anyone else using steel plates under their presses. I use the same size plate under My RC & L-N-L. Have for 30+ years. And while My bench is fastened to the frame of My garage, I don't have a matching bottom steel plate.
I don't think I'd need that unless I was trying to size 20MM cases down to .17 caliber.
Guess I was lucky that Hornady used the same frame as their Pro-Jector for the upgrade to the L-N-L.

[15meter]

First time I've heard of anyone else using steel plates under their presses. I use the same size plate under My RC & L-N-L. Have for 30+ years. And while My bench is fastened to the frame of My garage, I don't have a matching bottom steel plate.
I don't think I'd need that unless I was trying to size 20MM cases down to .17 caliber.
Guess I was lucky that Hornady used the same frame as their Pro-Jector for the upgrade to the L-N-L.

By the time I mortised the top plate into the bench I was concerned about the strength of the planks.

The top plate is drilled and tapped for all the various and sundry reloading equipment I swap in and out.

Rockchucker, Lyman T-mag, Dillon 550B, SDB, 5 MEC presses, lubri-sizer case trimmer plus a few others.
The plate looks like Swiss cheese.

When I'm not reloading, the bench is cleared for other "stuff".

[15meter]

And the steel plates even have a through hole drilled to allow the 209 primers from the 9000G to drop straight into the scrap steel can under the bench for recycling!

Need to do that for the 650's and the Grabber.

[15meter]

Per my notes that I looked up this evening, knew I need to look up something, thought it was for the 7x61, actually wanted the .256 Mannlicher.

Well, I've got the info, may as well post it for posterity:

Pretty much settled on 7mm Mag brass as the parent case. Other belted magnum cases work but the 7mm Mag is the closest.

1) F/L size with 300 H&H with the expander removed.

2) F/L size with 7x61 die with the expander removed.

3) Check for chambering, if necessary, use a shell holder that has the top ground down to set the shoulder back far enough to chamber. Remember to set the sizer die down for the shortened shell holder.

4) 12 grains Unique, toilet paper wad, cornmeal to fill, use a wax plug in the case mouth. Fire vertically to form.

5) Anneal and trim, or trim then anneal, depends if you like your trimming soft or hard.

6) Load and use as normal.

Lube on body only, go slowly in the forming, in to the die an 1/8", back out and rotate a quarter turn, back in another 1/8" until F/L sized.