To get a Dillon SDB or XL750?

[Dvdmacdaddy]

I am sick of fighting my Lee Loadmaster. I spend more time trying to make it work than loading. I primarily shoot 9mm (1000 rounds a month). Really wanting something I can dedicate to 9mm, not have to fight and get good quality ammo for IDPA. Looking at a Square Deal B or XL750 (no optional stuff for now, can’t afford it). Thoughts?

My current process for 9mm is: lee universal decapper, SS wet tumble, hand prime, stage 1 Lee sizer (decapper removed), stage 2 Lyman m die, stage 3 Lee powder through with 3D printed micro disc, stage 4 Lee seating die, stage 5 Lee taper crimp.

[onelight]

If I was loading 12000 rounds a year of one caliber it would sure be nice to have the option of adding a case feeder at some point.
And only you would know if you would be satisfied with a 4 station SDB , I would if I wanted a press dedicated to one caliber , but there are many ways to accomplish the reloading process and how we choose to budget our time and money in getting some ammo together .
I look forward to seeing your choice and how it works for you.

[fast ronnie]

I use the SDB to load several different rounds, and I am very happy with it. My deal is de-cap on a separate press, ss pin tumble, sometimes prime on an RCBS auto bench prime, but more often in the SDB. (44 mags get done on the RCBS bench prime),then do the rest on the SDB.
I have a friend who loads on a 650, and have seen him have some minor issues with priming on the press. It seems to happen when there are only a few primers left in the machine.Another issue is if the press does not install the primer, it can make a mess, where the SDB just lets the primer sit in the cup. You can take a round out at any time without disrupting the process on any other station. If I want to run a single case thru, it is not a problem. Sometimes when setting up, I will run one case thru a station multiple times, as when setting the powder measure or seating or crimping depth. Changeovers are done quickly with very little fuss.
On the 650, unless you have the case feeder and a bullet feeder. it looks to be a little awkward.
I have not used the 750, but I understand that the primer feed has been changed from the 650. Maybe those changes have eliminated the issues that I saw with my friend's machine. His machine functions very well, so please don't think I'm down on it.
Two drawbacks to the SDB machine: 1: dies are specific to that press and are a little on the expensive side considering I can't use those dies in a single stage or any other press. 2: You can't load bottleneck cases in the SDB, only pistol cases. If you are setting up for one pistol round and won't be using it for anything else, and if you are not going to put a case and bullet feeder on it, I would go with the SDB. If you will later use the feeders, or decide you want to do bottle-necked cases, the 650 or 750 would be a better deal.
Those are strictly MY opinions and what I have decided for myself. As others have said, "your mileage may vary."

[kmw1954]

I don't have a LoadMaster but I do have a lee, 3hole turret, Pro1000 and an ABLP press and yes I use them all.

Agreed that if you are not happy with the equipment you are using then it's time for a change. I like my Lee presses and intend to keep them, but if I was shooting 1k rounds every month then I would be seriously looking for something more effective than any of the Lee presses I have. So my thinking is you have two primary choices. Either a Dillon or a Hornady AP, or if feeling really frisky an RCBS progressive just to be different. Suite the tool to the job at hand. Don't use a tack hammer to pound spikes and don't use a sledge hammer to set tacks.

From personal experience I will tell you that I could easily run 1k 9mm a month on my Pro1000 and not miss a beat. A dear friend uses his Pro1000 with a universal depriming die with the case feeder, he then washes/tumbles and then primes. He then runs the Primed cases back thru with the expander/powder die, seating die and then the FCD.

[lefty o]

there are plusses and minusses to both. the sdb is small and really non upgradeable. the 650, well now 750 when you add a case feeder to it, it can make a lot of good ammo in a hurry. if your arm is up to it, a case feeder on a 650/750 can do a thousand rounds in an hour. of course that requires a few minutes of prep as in having a pile of primer tubes filled, or someone helping fill primer tubes while you load. if you never planned on going with a case feeder, id probably opt for the sdb, but other than that one instance the larger press wins. it does win at a cost though $$$.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

How well will the Dillon powder funnel expand the case for a .358 bullet vs the M die?

My biggest reservation is not being able to expand the case properly to seat a .358 bullet on the SDB. Could I have a custom funnel made that will mimic the M Die?


If I go the 750 route I css as just use the m die I have.

[DiverJay]

Get the XL750 and don't look back. You will never outgrow that machine like you did with your Lee and probably the SDB at some point. Buy once, cry once I say.

[dikman]

You've actually answered your own question by specifying particular dies and 5 stations, it will have to be a 750 (unless you can find a 650 somewhere). I was faced with the same decision, my Loadmaster was great when it was working but the primer feed was erratic. Everything else worked fine. Initially I decided on an SDB because I only wanted to load .38sp but advice from members on a hunting forum was to get the 650. Knowing that it was being replaced by the 750, with a consequent increase in price, I eventually managed to find one for .38 (no dies, I used my Lee dies).

I modified it quite a bit - fitted a Lee 4-tube case feed and a lee 4-tube boolit feed, using a Mr. Bulletfeeder to drop the boolits. I can load about 100 rounds before having to add extra cases, boolits and primers and I have extra tubes of primers and boolits handy. I originally wanted to use my Lee Factory Crimp Die, but the boolit feeder took priority. If I do happen to mess up the loading sequence it's no problem removing/replacing cases at any point.

I use a Lee Pro1000 to deprime/re-size first before the wet tumble.

The 650 wasn't cheap but I have no regrets getting it, it's a nice piece of engineering and although I don't need it at the moment it's nice knowing that it has flexibility through using standard dies and has 5 stations.

[Big Wes]

I started out with a 550B 20+ years ago great machine. Ten years later I bought a used SDB set up for 45acp for $75.00 it's become my dedicated 45 acp press, works great! Last year I bought a 650 used less than a year old complete with case feeder and dies for 308 and 223 and 45acp. and lots of bullets, cases, powder etc for $1300. I've only loaded 308 & 223 on it so far. All that being said I like them all. My opinion is for you to get a 650/750 or a 550C. You won/t be disappointed.

Regards,
Wes

[jban]

Get the XL750 and don't look back. You will never outgrow that machine like you did with your Lee and probably the SDB at some point. Buy once, cry once I say.

THIS... I sold my SDB and got the 750. The SDB is a good press, but is awful small work area if you have sausage fingers, or you finger just aren't as nimble as they used to be

[jmorris]

I have a couple SD’s and even loaded the ammunition on one I used to place 1st MA at IDPA nationals in ‘09.

However, the SD won’t allow use of any other die. If you want to use 7/8-14 dies pick something else.

[MrWolf]

Just curious why you haven't looked at the current 550? It would do what you are looking for and you can control the process. Just a thought. I am very happy with mine.

[JimB..]

I have a couple SD’s and even loaded the ammunition on one I used to place 1st MA at IDPA nationals in ‘09.

However, the SD won’t allow use of any other die. If you want to use 7/8-14 dies pick something else.

Agreed, but do you know why there aren’t custom expanders being offered for the SDB? They don’t seem complicated,from a layman’s perspective anyway.

[edp2k]

M-style die (i.e. Dillon powder funnel) for the Dillon powder measures.
https://www.cedhk.com/mr-bulletfeeder-powder-funnel

I recommend a Dillon 550, 650, or 750.
All those use standard 7/8-14 dies and can optionally use a Dillon case feeder.
A SDB can't do either.
If you are going to dedicate the press to one caliber (e.g. 9mm)
then a 650/750 is the way to go.
A 650/750 takes longer to change calibers and primer sizes than a 550. More parts to swap out.

Unless money is no object, then a 1050 etc. is the way to go :)

[bgw45]

I wanted a dedicated 9mm loader so I opted for a SDB. It worked. I already had a 650 I used for 45. I sold the SDB because the shellplate is so much smaller and my fingers are getting SO much older the combo just didn't match. To me, the. SDB was just harder to work with, both the shellplate and the operating feel of the lever. I know guys enjoy em, just not for me. Saved my pennies and got another 650.

[Preacher Jim]

Advice, buy bigger if you decide to use it for other things you have the capability to upgrade or swap calibers quickly.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Get the 750. Way more production with case feeder and auto index.

[dverna]

I had two SDB’s and they worked well, but I was shooting a lot (20k/yr) and decided I wanted a case feeder.

I ended up going with the 650 and then to the 1050. The only negative on the 650 for me was priming on the upstroke. It takes a bit of “feel” and a slight pause.

You will be well served with a 750 with a case feeder. Figure about 2 hours a week to produce 1000 rounds.

I have 20 primer tubes that I fill before starting a production run. Takes about 3 hours to load 2000 rounds and clean up

[hotshot357]

The SDB is a great machine. I bought mine when I started reloading back in 2017. But it wasn't long I needed to go bigger (.30-30 Winchester).So that lead me to purchase a 550. What I'm saying is if you can afford it, go 750. Sometimes you don't know what the future may bring.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

I would love to get a 1050 but can't afford one, a no options 750 is really taxing my budget. I did see the Mr. Bullet Feeder Dillion funnels. I haven't really looked much at the RL550 mainly due to the manual index, although it is a good in between option.

After several days of research, input from this thread and others, a phone call to Dillion, a chat with an acquaintance that has used a SDB, RL550, XL650 and 1050; I have decided to just fight the Lee a few more months, save and get the XL750 with 9mm Dillion Dies. I get auto indexing, 5 tool head, and ability to load rifle and add case feeder down the road. I thank you all for your input.

[kmw1954]

I think you have made a wise informed decision. Put off the immediate gratification and buy the one you really want when the funds allow it. You will be much happier in the long run.

[dverna]

You can make a case feeder if you have basic skills and funds are tight.

[jmorris]

I get auto indexing, 5 tool head, and ability to load rifle and add case feeder down the road. I thank you all for your input.

Dillon makes it confusing because they call their case collator the “case feeder”. The tube that holds the column of cases and all of the mechanical parts to take a case from the tube and insert it into the shell plate comes from Dillon setup and ready to go on the base machine. The case feed, feeder AKA collator is the extra.

Some folks have built their own, some have adapted the cheap Lee collator/tubes to work, etc.

If you are a DIY type of guy there are lots of possibilities, even a case fed SD.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUdzxJenkX0

[rbt5050]

it took me 25 years to get the 1050. I sold my 650 because of the primer setup. was going to buy a 750. I am only 1/2 hr ride from Dillon . went up and looked over the 750 and like it. went home to think about it and got a good offer for 1050 I had to buy it.

[Fireball 57]

My Sweetie, loves me. She ordered an XL750 with case and bullet feeder for me YESTERDAY for Christmas in 9mm and conversion 380 ACP (her caliber). She got me some updates with the package. Merry Christmas!

[David2011]

I would love to get a 1050 but can't afford one, a no options 750 is really taxing my budget. I did see the Mr. Bullet Feeder Dillion funnels. I haven't really looked much at the RL550 mainly due to the manual index, although it is a good in between option.

I saw that you’re going to hold off and go for the 750 and I don’t disagree. I have a 550 that I bought in 1991 and a 650 that I bought in 2006 or ‘07. IMO you’re placing far too much emphasis on auto-indexing. Having used the 550 for nearly 30 years I can assure you that auto-indexing is really a non-event. It becomes second nature and I don’t give it any thought; it’s just automatic.

[dikman]

Well, the beauty of an auto-index is that you can use it as a manual index if you want.:)

[Dvdmacdaddy]

I saw that you’re going to hold off and go for the 750 and I don’t disagree. I have a 550 that I bought in 1991 and a 650 that I bought in 2006 or ‘07. IMO you’re placing far too much emphasis on auto-indexing. Having used the 550 for nearly 30 years I can assure you that auto-indexing is really a non-event. It becomes second nature and I don’t give it any thought; it’s just automatic.

After posting my decision yesterday I couldn’t get the thought of the RL550 out of my head. Stayed up WAY past my bed time going through RL550 information on Brian Enos web and forum, here and other sites. I had a RL550 and dies in the cart about to purchase and phone died. Went to sleep, not really, my brain wouldn’t stop going over 550 and 750 information. Now torn between the 550 and 750. Still leaning more to the 750 mainly for the 5th station and the higher output rate (in case I get more range/competition time one of these days). I have no doubt that the 550 would be an excellent choice and easier on the ole bank account. If I could find a good bargain on a RL550 I wouldn’t hesitate one bit. Still going shooting for a 750, but have my eye out for a bargain RL550.

[kmw1954]

Dvdmacdaddy back a year ago after lee came out with the new Auto Breech Lock Pro and the updated Value Turret press I fought with myself for months as to which one to buy because I needed a press with a 4th station. I already knew what the turret press could do but wanted the production I knew would come from the ABLP. As I have learned many times before with items like this buy what you really want and not what you will settle for. At least when I have done that I always regretted not buying what I wanted and was always not fully satisfied with what I got. Now I just hold out until I can buy what I truly want. Also in this case it is a major outlay of cash resources so make it count.

Oh and BTW there have been times when I spent the money for what I truly wanted only to be disappointed after I had it. It happens!

[kevin c]

"My biggest reservation is not being able to expand the case properly to seat a .358 bullet on the SDB. Could I have a custom funnel made that will mimic the M Die? "

Lathesmith could turn one for you. He did for me. While I only size to .357, and asked for a funnel appropriate for that, .358 shouldn't be a problem.

Of course, my answer shows that I have a SDB. It has worked fine for me all these years, and I historically have shot twice the rounds per year you do. Worth noting though, that I have small hands, so I don't find a four station press cramped for space when I have to get to things on and around the shell plate, and that I am happy making "only" 400 to 500 rounds an hour.

For some, a potential deal killer for the SDB is that it doesn't do rifle cartridges at all, whereas the 750 and manually indexed 550 do. For me, if I wanted to do rifle, I'd add a 550 to the SDB I have. If limited to one press, I might go for the 750, though, as I might if I wanted to shoot 50,000 rounds a year, hated spending time reloading, and weren't retired with ample time to do as I please.

Oh, and if I were all the above, were a gadget fiend, and had unlimited funds, I'd get a Mark 7.

[DukeConnors]

I have a sdb and 650. the 650 is superior in every way. But having said that, loading on that little sdb is a pleasure. i think it is the short throw of the sdb handle that just seems easier to me.

Obviously the downside of the sdb is proprietary dies.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Reloading time is another factor. With a toddler, a teenager, my wife working in the operating room and having to take call often getting a hour here and there is difficult. I like to make it as productive as possible.

[dikman]

Based on everything you've said I think the 750 is the logical choice (unless you can find a 650). The beauty of it is that you can use your existing dies (like I did), there's no need to buy new dies as well so that will keep the cost down a bit.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Found a few 650s but for $100ish more than asking I can buy a new 750, for that difference I’d rather buy new.

[oldhenry]

As far as being able to seat a .358 dia. bullet : I have a 550B & a 550C. Both use Dillon dies. I have no problem seating .358 or .359 boolits in .38 spec. or .357 & this is done with the standard Dillon powder die. The resulting ammo will knock down 50 yd. chickens off-hand if I do my part. I like the 550's ability to change calibers quickly (I have 4 quick change set-ups other than the 2 in the presses).
As far as manual advance: I'd pay extra for manual. The Green Machine cured me of auto advance forever.

However: I'm retired & I'm not pressed for time. I never measure how many rounds I loaded in an hour.

If you know someone that has a 650 or 750 or a 550, the ideal way to make the choice is to observe theirs in action.

[David2011]

Well, the beauty of an auto-index is that you can use it as a manual index if you want.:)

Only if part of the auto-indexing mechanism is removed. On my 650 that’s the only way to prevent auto-indexing.

[dikman]

Only if part of the auto-indexing mechanism is removed. On my 650 that’s the only way to prevent auto-indexing.

True, however it took me a minute (maybe less) to make mine manual. Remove the cam operating piece (two allen head bolts), rotate the cam assembly below the shellplate, which will expose an allen head bolt in the ram, insert a suitable size allen key onto the bolt and release the cam to rest against the allen key. It is now a manual index press - although I can't see much need for doing this, after all if you don't want auto-indexing then buy a manual press.

[David2011]

Dikman, I agree completely. I guess there might be some obscure reason for unusual brass processing or something but I would go back to the 550 or RC first.

[jmorris]

Found a few 650s but for $100ish more than asking I can buy a new 750, for that difference I’d rather buy new.

Doesn’t matter much both have the same lifetime no BS warranty. The rotary priming system on the 650 is the most reliable primer feed system there is.

[quasi]

Doesn’t matter much both have the same lifetime no BS warranty. The rotary priming system on the 650 is the most reliable primer feed system there is.

Wrong. The RCBS primer strip system is, and it is now extinct.

[jmorris]

Wrong. The RCBS primer strip system is, and it is now extinct.

As long as you had new strips it was a very close #2. Certainly better than the systems they put on the pro chucker 5 & 7’s.

I did a case feeder on my Pro 2000 as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hObNbSATBOE

[15meter]

I saw that you’re going to hold off and go for the 750 and I don’t disagree. I have a 550 that I bought in 1991 and a 650 that I bought in 2006 or ‘07. IMO you’re placing far too much emphasis on auto-indexing. Having used the 550 for nearly 30 years I can assure you that auto-indexing is really a non-event. It becomes second nature and I don’t give it any thought; it’s just automatic.

Not Dillon specific, but it really does become automatic, I loaded shotgun on MEC 650's for years which are manual index with no problems. After 20+ years of MEC 650's I bought a 9000G which has auto-index and run it with the auto-index disconnected most of the time.

I also have a SDB for pistol and a 550 for rifle. I can move between them pretty easily.

[dikman]

One thing about Lee, their parts are often quite adaptable.:lol:

[mozeppa]

i have 2 dillon 650's

and a friend has 16 dedicated dillon 650's .....one for each caliber he shoots.

[GreenRiverBoy]

My opinion is to go with the 750; I bought a 650 years ago at a price point I couldn't turn down (even though I owned a Hornady LNL at the time). Once I setup the 650, the Hornady (as much as I liked it) was on the market for sale. I would be curious to see how the 750's style of priming will compare to the 650's though. Anyway good luck.

[Mousehouse]

If I was going to get a Dillon I would go with the XL650. Most dealers are selling off what they have since the new 750 has come out. Around here several places have their 650's for $500. The 750 I believe is $649. I am thinking about buying a 650 just because of the price and I can leave my other press setup for loading one caliber.

[Lagamor]

I've had a 550B for years and it's served me well. I would advise you to get the 750XL because you can add on to it in years to come.
I don't have buyer's remorse with the 550B, but I wish I could have some of the fancy upgrades that are only useful on the 650 or 750.
Plus I'd like to crank out more per hour. Right now, with checking and boxing I can only get 400 per hour.

[jmorris]

One thing about Lee, their parts are often quite adaptable.:lol:

Yes, when things are the most basic they can be, they can be useful for many tasks.

Not unlike the “wheel” or a flat blade screwdriver (“prying thingy” to any one born after 1990...or ‘80’s?)

[dikman]

Prying, levering, chiseling, stirring paint and, of course, as a screwdriver. I keep a couple of old ones on my bench and use them for all sorts of things.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

This past weekend where I shoot IDPA, the shop owner let me load a few 100 rounds of 9mm with my big .358 bullet on his 650, I use the same powder he does so it was rather easy to setup. We then compared my Loadmaster rounds to the 650 over the chrono and on paper at 25yds (with a bench rest) huge difference. The Dillon had a way more consistent OAL and powder drop, compared to the Loadmaster.

Then at work Monday a coworker approached me about doing some work. Took me about 8 hours to do on my day off yesterday. That combined with a bonus we just got, I ordered a basic XL750 and 9mm dies last night. Now it can’t get here fast enough.

[Dvdmacdaddy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/a892a9fc2924448a59efce2a20bce5bc.jpg

It arrived Monday, set it up and made 50 rounds pretty fast. I can foresee a case feeder being added. Tuesday, tested the rounds over the chrono and on paper at 15yds. Way more consistent loads than the Lee.

[Phlier]

[IMG]I can foresee a case feeder being added.
You mean boolit feeder?

Luckily, there are other, less expensive, options besides a Mr. Bullet Feeder. I'm still waffling on which way to go, but it's nice that there are other alternatives. I'm leaning toward the OpenBulletFeeder 3D printed option at this point, but I'll have to buy the parts pre-printed as I don't have a 3D printer.

Congratulations on your setup! FWIW, IMO you chose wisely. ;)

[Dvdmacdaddy]

The Dillion Auto Casefeeder, is what I was referencing. I still like to look in each case to make sure there is powder, before placing a bullet.

[Phlier]

The Dillion Auto Casefeeder, is what I was referencing. I still like to look in each case to make sure there is powder, before placing a bullet.

Ah, I see. I didn't realize there wasn't a collator on your setup. I agree about looking at the powder prior to setting a boolit. A lot of guys have rigged little USB cameras that are pointed at the case in the boolit setting station, with the picture shown on an ipad or smartphone that is attached to the loader itself. Such an arrangement makes it much easier to see the powder charge, and also allows you to see the charge before the boolit setting (not "seating") die places the boolit on the case.

My current setup requires me to lean forward to peer into the case as I manually place a boolit. After five spine surgeries, this minor task has become major. I'll be adding the little camera setup even if I don't ever go with an automated boolit feeder of some sort. Those little Bluetooth or USB cameras are really cheap.

[Kevin Rohrer]

If the OP is only loading 9mm and has budget limitations, he needs to go with the SD. loading a single, tiny caliber on a 750 is overkill for more than one reason.

[jban]

Nothing wrong with the SD. I had one for a lot of years. I sold it to buy a 750. The SD has a small working platform. As you get older, your hands aren't as nimble as they once were, you'll appreciate the larger working area of the 750 more. Then there are still the other benefits of the 750 over the SD.

[JimB..]

I started with a SD, still have it and a pair of 650’s.

To the OP, nice looking setup, do start saving for the case collator, it drops right onto the press and is a nice add.

I added a Mr. Bullet feeder for my .223 loading, it’s expensive but works well. I just got in a mini mr. bullet feeder for 45acp, and preloading the tubes isn’t a big deal so think I’m gonna like it.

I confess that I’ve stopped looking into cases when loading with ball powders.

[fast ronnie]

There's been a change on my bench since I posted in post #3. There is a brand new XL750 bolted on my bench. Just waiting for a small rifle case feeder disk to show up. I ran it loading the tube manually. I certainly know why that case feeder is there. Even loading brass by hand, it is faster than the SDB sitting next to it. One will be for rifle, the other for pistol.
Happier that a hog in a mud hole!!!

[sparky45]

Glad to see you got a 550, that's what I wish I'd bought. Instead I bought a 650 with casefeeder, all the plates extra accessories, ect. Now, it sets idle because my shooting habits drastically changed (wifes health, ect) and I rarely shoot anymore.

[derek45]

1000 a month ?

XL650 / 750 for sure.

The square deal uses proprietary dies.

I use, Dillon, LEE, hornday, Lyman, Redding dies on my 550b and XL650

the case feeder is a must.


.

[jessdigs]

The bullet tray, empty case tray and a powder mirror like this one from Amazon are great upgrades for the 550. Case feeder would be nice.
I also upgraded the shell plate bearing and primer slide with a roller bearing.

HARDK Inspection Mirror Magnetic Base Welding Magnet https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HNBWJ3M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_66W9DbW729TZG

One wrap of electrical tape holds it in placehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191216/db2dcdaf05cdd9656d93efde130c0293.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191216/2acd13a3f500744865a08e8bd51233d5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191216/41e07c9bae849de6e95731587fa82647.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[onelight]

Very nice setup !

[Iowa Fox]

Thanks for the link to the mirror. I gotta get me one of those. What about the light?

[jessdigs]

Thanks for the link to the mirror. I gotta get me one of those. What about the light?Very popular auction site, under
InLine Fabrication Skylight LED reloading Press light system Dillon RL 550 B

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[Phlier]

Another option for looking at powder charges in cases is a Bluetooth camera. You can then mount an iPad (or similar device, even your phone) to the front of the press.

I'm thinking of getting a boroscope, and have it do double duty as a powder charge inspection camera on the press. I've been wanting a boroscope for years, and being able to use it more frequently helps to justify the expense. ;)

[Iowa Fox]

Very popular auction site, under
InLine Fabrication Skylight LED reloading Press light system Dillon RL 550 B

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Thank You