Ever Try Cast .44 in a .50 Cal. Muzzleloader Sabot Sleeve?

[Hanzy4200]

I tried my luck at in-line muzzleloader hunting this year. I Used Power Belts and was very disappointed. Solid hit on a doe, very little blood, and tracked her for 2 hours before losing the trail. It got me thinking. Traditions sells Hornady XTP .44 mag bullets in sabot cups. Has anyone ever tried loading their own pills in these cups for whitetail?

[bmortell]

why would one want to use sub caliber bullets anyway, I always thought the only good thing about muzzleloaders is the bore size

[plowboy]

lee 310 in a sabot deadly in my cva 50 cal.

[gumbo333]

Someone used to make .50 cal sabots in both .44 and .45 to use whatever bullet or boolit you wanted in your 50 cal smokepole (MMM or MTM maybe). Boolits worked great.

[brewer12345]

What it the twist on your barrel? Might be worth seeing if it will shoot round ball or a heavy lead conical like a maxi ball.

[fastdadio]

I've been doing it for years. Traditions Buck Skinner carbine. 1/20" twist. I buy my sabots in bulk 50 piece bags. It does best with boolits in the 265 to 300gr. range. 70 to 90 grs FF. It shoots sub 3" @ 100 yds consistently.
https://mmpsabots.com

[bikerbeans]

I shoot 44 cal Lyman devastators in Harvester crush rib sabots out of an H&R 50 cal Huntsman. This boolit in the boiler room does a fine job. I didn't cast the devastators I bought them lubed and gas checked. They load fine so i didn't remove the checks or lube.

BB

[megasupermagnum]

In my TC impact I was shooting a 44 caliber 330 grain SSK bullet cast of stick on wheel weight plus a bit of tin. Probably about 40:1 alloy. Many 44 caliber sabots only fit short bullets. I found the Thompson Center 44 caliber sabot to be perfect for my SSK bullet, and it shot best with 90 grains BH209.

I learned my lesson, stay away from pointed bullets like many of the powerbelts, Hornady FPB, and most of the bullets sold for sabots. Stick with a hollow point, or a cast bullet (hollow point or solid). Any minute advantage the polymer tip gives you is not worth the poor effectiveness on deer. "But it's already 50 caliber" they say. I saw what a 50 caliber Hornady FPB did, and you couldn't stick a pen through the hole it left in the deer.

[longcruise]

I did well with 180 cast .429 and 200 grain cast .429 out of a TC .50 with 1:48 twist. I bought the Hornady green sabots and it was a good fit.

Very fast and accurate over 90 grains of goex 2f. It broke 2000 fps with the 180.

[shortlegs]

I have used 200 gr 45 cal swc in my 50cal with 80 gr of fffg and get great results, full penetration and 45 cal holes thru both frt shoulders.

[richhodg66]

The one experience with a Hornady XTP in a sabot muzzle loader ruined an entire shoulder of a small doe and she ran farther than any other deer I ever shot. It wa actually one my son shot when he was a kid. I'll never use a jacketed hollow point again.

I've used various cast .44 SWCs in my inline in sabots to kill deer with and they work a lot better.

[phonejack]

I've taken 17 deer using only 240 xtp hp's. Latest was last Tuesday. 90 grns. Loose powder. None have run past 30 yards. Rifle is a TC Omega. I tried using .430 cast in a sabot. Bore is too tight for seating.

[Screwbolts]

IMHO, It makes no sense to by Hornady combos for the sabot. Harvester sabots are the very best I have ever used. The best place I have found to get them is, graf and sons.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/5481

The above link is for the short black sabot I use them for/with 3 different smooth sided cast projectiles that I cast. I believe 12 cards of 50 still come in a case of them, that is how I buy them.

What powder and charge weight are you shooting?

I believe if you want the best store bought combo you can get, go with the Harvester 50c 330 gr hard cast packs. Verel Smith of LBT made the molds for the Harvester projectiles and I also have one of Verels great molds that drops 330 gr LFN Smooth sided projectiles the same as the Harvester. they perform awesome at 1500 fps velocity or a charge weight equivalent to 80 gr of Black powder.

Ken

[RU shooter]

I tried the 45 cal Lee 200 gr FN in my 50 cal made round holes but accuracy was not there BUT I tried it in a 56twist just to see if it would work in a fast twist I'm sure results would have been different

[Dthunter]

To be honest, I have used both saboted copper jacketed bullets and cast boolets in sabots, and they both kill reliably.

The polymer tipped bullets shoot great at longer ranges now capable for some muzzleloaders!

I get a different level of satisfaction in casting my own bullets used in sabots. The more involved I am in the outcome, the better the satisfaction.

[dk17hmr]

Powerbelts aren't my first choice for reasons you experienced. I have killed several animals with them but never really happy with them.

I switched to Thor bullets in my 50 Cal which are devastating and extremely accurate with a heavy charge of blackhorn 209. If I could get decent accuracy with sabots or casts conicals that's all I would use. For whatever reason my CVA patterns sabots with everything I try which is odd because Thor bullets will shoot 1.5" at 200 pretty regularly, powerbelts shoot 1.5" at 100 with a 120gr charge of RS.

MMP is the place to get bulk Sabots and they are cheap enough to get a variety. I'd also look at getting a Lee REAL bullet mold and some over powder wads the WFN nature of that bullet would be pretty effective at blowing a hole through the ribs of a deer.

[SSGOldfart]

Yes sir I'd used the 240 hp 44 in a 50 cal many times,in both the TC inline and a TC plains muzzleloader.I'll let the others debate the science behind using them,I know they put meat on the table for me. I guess we all have good and bad experiences with a round of a particular gun. I won't quit because of one had days with what must have been a bad shot. Good luck

[Hamish]

I have gotten outstanding accuracy using Harvester sabots and the MP .452-200 Penta HP and the Lee .450 Minie bullet interchangeably.

https://leeprecision.com/mold-450-294-m.html

[Hanzy4200]

Old, dead thread, but just for fun...... Last year I took out 240 gr Barnes copper solid HP's. Solid broadside shot on a big doe. I hit about 2" high, and she didn't go 5 feet. I am still tempted to try my PC'ed 240 gr cast, as they shoot very accurately, but I am concerned about the lack of deformation.

[white eagle]

have used 44's,45's and 458 dia. boolits and jacketed bullets
I do have a Accurate real boolit mold that I use as well
I do prefer the 54 cal over the 50 though but use both

[slohunter]

I have been using Lyman's 429421 for decades.

[444ttd]

10+ years when i was using my encore in 50 cal, i was using powerbelts(hp and plastic tip) and the i didn't like the destruction they caused. i never went to sabots, so i decided i would use my lyman deerstalker(sold) with maxi balls. i killed a few deer and now i use left hand flintlock cva hawkens in 50 cal with prb......or rather i would, but i didn't order patches(the only ones i could get locally were .020-.025" instead of .015"). instead its my encore with .429" 280gr wfn and sabot. i have a 250gr penta hp, 275gr ranch dog and 300gr fn gc that i could load my encore with.

[versa-06]

MMP can fix you up. I prefer the HPH Sabot, a little heavier duty than the plain lesser expensive ones. Probably 2-$3.00 more per 50ct. Good quality & seem to be good people, very helpful over the phone.

[444ttd]

MMP can fix you up. I prefer the HPH Sabot, a little heavier duty than the plain lesser expensive ones. Probably 2-$3.00 more per 50ct. Good quality & seem to be good people, very helpful over the phone.

i bought some tc mag express sabots for $8 - $9 per 50 at a lgs. i will NOT buy pyrodex pellets at $30/50 shots(50/50 pellets). i use 70gr of goex 2f in my encore. i have seen white hots for $30/ 36 shots(50/50 pellets) at a lgs too, but they can stay on shelf. in case you can't tell, i am a cheap basturd[smilie=l:.

[versa-06]

Started using Pyrodex RS powder this year found it for $21.99 per Lb. I dropped my charges from 100gr (2-pellets) to 90 gr of RS with a 315gr cast boolit w- a shallow HP & my groops are much better. I think I'll be staying with the powder form, I'll take accuracy 1st.

[BunkTheory]

Ill post it for all, the pointed bullets sold for muzzle loaders NEED a special ram rod tip to prevent them from damaging the bullet tip.

Power Belt WORK,,,, you just have to AIM>

[Tripplebeards]

I tried .430 Lyman devastators about a month ago in a green Thompson center sabot made for 44 cal bullets. AS usual those green sabots gave shotgun blast patterns at 100 yards. I tried their black 45 cal inside diameter sabots last year with a .452 285 grain HP group buy boolit. It grouped 2 1/4” at 100 yards and 2” lower than a 300 grain TC shock wave with the same 150 grain pellet charge. I never tried to hunt with them because my muzzle loader groups tighter at 250 yards with the 300 grain shock waves then the .452 cast do at 100 yards. I just checked my zero on it the other day using my 300 grain shock waves. I knew I had it 2” high at 100 yards. It printed 2” high and a quarter inch to the right. Second shot touched the first. I clicked down 8 clicks and one left. Third shot hit the “x” dead center. I’m ready to go. That Omega is more accurate than most of my centerfires. I’ve consistently shot 4” groups with it at 300 yards and a 10x optic and under 2” at 200 yards. At a 100 yards bullet holes touch that look like one oblong hole. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. I remember 15 years ago went I got drawn for elk hunting. After the hunt my buddy set out a half dozen apples at a 150 yards. I hit every one shot for shot with the load. The bullet IMO is to hard for deer though. They run on average 60 yards but with a good blood trail….accept for last year. I had one go twice as long with no blood for last 10 yards. At least I know when I pull the trigger my animal is dead. I just have to find it.

[444ttd]

Ill post it for all, the pointed bullets sold for muzzle loaders NEED a special ram rod tip to prevent them from damaging the bullet tip.

Power Belt WORK,,,, you just have to AIM>


they werk too well. i'm a meat hunter, not a trophy hunter. i shot a doe at 25-30 yards with a powerbelt hp. it was behind the shoulder , hit both lungs and heart(made lung soup), thru the off shoulder and leg and she ran about 20 yards. i threw away the ribs and off shoulder meat. my entrance wound busted two ribs and it was bloodshot to the shoulder and to the doe's last rib. the leg of the doe was shattered and the reason it didn't come off was 1/4" of skin was left. that got me away from powerbelt's hp and plastic tips.

[Edward]

why would one want to use sub caliber bullets anyway, I always thought the only good thing about muzzleloaders is the bore size

You'd be wrong visit Modern muzzle loading forum and get educated ,lots of info and most shoot less than bore with sabots ! I shoot a CVA Optima V2 50 cal (pistol ) 1- 24 twist 16 inch barrel with an AR stock ,not traditional but a handi combo that shoots 3 to 5 inch groups @200yds and ragged holes @100 yds using my 45 Cal unlubed TC Maxi in a Black harvester crush 50x45 sabot over 70-75gr BH209/Ed

[BunkTheory]

they werk too well. i'm a meat hunter, not a trophy hunter. i shot a doe at 25-30 yards with a powerbelt hp. it was behind the shoulder , hit both lungs and heart(made lung soup), thru the off shoulder and leg and she ran about 20 yards. i threw away the ribs and off shoulder meat. my entrance wound busted two ribs and it was bloodshot to the shoulder and to the doe's last rib. the leg of the doe was shattered and the reason it didn't come off was 1/4" of skin was left. that got me away from powerbelt's hp and plastic tips.

my 50 cal inline, loaded with 120 grains of powder and a 300 grain 45 cal saboted jsp,,, is punching identical to what a 454 casull lever gun pushes the same bullet. Hits the same way to boot.
Makes a HOLE, yes, still picking up pieces of rib bone 5 years after i used one on a buck... but honestly,, why WOULD ANYONE be shooting through the OFF SHOULDER and LEG when they can GET a shot through the heart and lungs as you claim... sounds more of a marginal shot with bad placement not any issue with the bullet.

[444ttd]

my 50 cal inline, loaded with 120 grains of powder and a 300 grain 45 cal saboted jsp,,, is punching identical to what a 454 casull lever gun pushes the same bullet. Hits the same way to boot.
Makes a HOLE, yes, still picking up pieces of rib bone 5 years after i used one on a buck... but honestly,, why WOULD ANYONE be shooting through the OFF SHOULDER and LEG when they can GET a shot through the heart and lungs as you claim... sounds more of a marginal shot with bad placement not any issue with the bullet.

sorry, but where i hunt it isn't possible to wait to get a broadside shot from a rest in a hunting blind or a tree stand.

[quilbilly]

I have been using the MMP green sabots with a 265 gr 429 SWC for over 20 years for elk and whenever deer+elk seasons are combined. I also like them for desert mule deer because they extend the effective accurate range about another 75+ yards over PRB. I do prefer PRB in either 45 or 50 cal. for nearly all my deer hunting where ranges are likely to be 125 yards or usually far less. I have never figured out why but the green sabots from other manufacturers have not been as accurate as the MMP sabots for me and I understand they are(were) all made be MMP. The other brand sabots are shinier on the outside maybe a possibility. My load for all of the sabot+50 cal hunting has always been 78 gr of 3F Goex and it is devastating on our rainforest jungle elk.