lyman vs t/c sight interchangeability

[Andy]

I have long looked for a small, not-side-mounted, peep sight for my lyman great plains rifle. I recently received into the shop what I believe to be a T/C hawken that had a peep on it and I found to my happy surprise that it fit my lyman perfectly, same screw threads and everything. I was finally rewarded for checking them when they come in!

All I had seen online previously is that the only tang peep sight that would fit the lyman GPR was the lyman 57GPR or various older and/or creedmoor style sights. I was pleasantly surprised to see this fit and wondered if I missed out on some info on it.

In researching, I believe this is called the T/C 7194 sight if that helps the next guy in my situation. They are available intermittently on ebay in the $90-135 range. Am I right on that or is this suspect info? I am new to these things so correct me if wrong please.

[LAGS]

The Lyman sight on my GPR came with a wedge style spacer to fit and match the angle of the tang.
I have not seen the same wedge used on the T/C receiver sights.
That may be the difference in the Lyman models for the two rifles.

[Theditchman]

I got a williams peep sight for my T/C Hawken and a lyman front sight..the problem is the front sight is to small and I have to get the high one now but the williams for $60 is a good deal

[megasupermagnum]

If the tang was flat, I would think you could drill and tap for just about anything. Does the Lyman 57SML fit? If so, then the Williams FP-Hawken will also fit. It seems to me that tang sights are always require tinkering to fit right. The Lyman 57SML says it is a direct fit for a TC hawken or TC renegade. The old style it's well known you had to remove metal to clear the stock. I bought a brand new one that says you do not. Well, it did not fit. On top of that, all these peep sights seem to want you to use the rear tang screw. I know I don't want a wood screw holding my sight on. I ended up making a spacer, and mounting my sight more in the center of the tang.

Short version: Even direct fit sights don't always fit. I bet you could make a TC sight fit, if nothing else with an adapter plate.

[Theditchman]

Your right ...they all have to be tinkered with...I have 5 tangs from the TC Hawken and it dosent lay true on any of them

[megasupermagnum]

Also, after trying both the Williams FP-Hawken, and the Lyman 57SML, do not get the Williams. I could write a whole page one everything wrong with that sight. The Lyman sight is a great, solid and reliable sight with good features.

As for front sight, again the Williams is so-so. It is a two piece base and site. The problem is even with their own brand rear sight installed as directed, the lowest base with lowest sight ways WAY too tall. Even with a .220" tall spacer, the sight maxed out was still too low. The Lyman 17AMI is the perfect height on my renegade. .494" tall.

[John McCorkle]

Also, after trying both the Williams FP-Hawken, and the Lyman 57SML, do not get the Williams. I could write a whole page one everything wrong with that sight. The Lyman sight is a great, solid and reliable sight with good features.

As for front sight, again the Williams is so-so. It is a two piece base and site. The problem is even with their own brand rear sight installed as directed, the lowest base with lowest sight ways WAY too tall. Even with a .220" tall spacer, the sight maxed out was still too low. The Lyman 17AMI is the perfect height on my renegade. .494" tall.Just got that 57sml for a hawken build (given a 70s era tc hawken still in the box!!!)

Glad to hear it was the right decision over the Williams. I did have to look a bit for it, found one on fleabay.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[Andy]

Thanks for all the responses guys, very happy to have a peep sight on this rifle now. Next year I might actually hunt with it.

Anyone feel there is any benefit to the williams brass ringed disk inserts in the apertures over the plain steel ones? They advertise better low-light performance, is that valid or just marketing?

[idahoron]

Also, after trying both the Williams FP-Hawken, and the Lyman 57SML, do not get the Williams. I could write a whole page one everything wrong with that sight. The Lyman sight is a great, solid and reliable sight with good features.

As for front sight, again the Williams is so-so. It is a two piece base and site. The problem is even with their own brand rear sight installed as directed, the lowest base with lowest sight ways WAY too tall. Even with a .220" tall spacer, the sight maxed out was still too low. The Lyman 17AMI is the perfect height on my renegade. .494" tall.

I have both the williams FP sights on my inlines and I have several of the Lyman 57's. I am curious what problems you have had with the Williams.

[pietro]

Anyone feel there is any benefit to the williams brass ringed disk inserts in the apertures over the plain steel ones?

They advertise better low-light performance, is that valid or just marketing ?






Depending upon the lighting conditions where you intend to shoot, the sight can be acquired a bit faster on a rapidly presented game shot.

While I've use the Williams Twilight aperture, I now just cut/sand down one of the white sling swivel spacers that many used guns have installed.

Whatever's used, just remember to look THROUGH the aperture at the front sight, and not "at" it. [smilie=1:



https://i.imgur.com/7T3QY5Tl.jpg

[megasupermagnum]

I have both the williams FP sights on my inlines and I have several of the Lyman 57's. I am curious what problems you have had with the Williams.

I'll just quickly list the issues with the Williams FP sights.

1. It's not easily adjustable. You need to loosen a lock screw, which can get stuck if you overtighten, then use a screwdriver to adjust the sight.

2. The scale is worthless. When I asked Williams about this, I was told "it's just for reference". Ok, well with the sight screwed all the way up, you are only about half way up the scale they printed. You can then move it higher with your fingers, you can even go about 1/4" past the end of the scale.

3. Along with #2, it is very difficult to adjust beyond the half way point, as the adjusting screw no longer works. This is definitely NOT a target sight.

4. This is more a Williams problem, but the FP-Hawken rear sight, coupled with their own recommended low base and lowest globe sight do NOT work. To sight in at 50 yards requires the rear sight to be about maxed all the way up. It is odd a company would make a front and rear sight for a specific gun that do not work together.

Now what makes the Lyman 57 sight better.

1. The scale works, and is adjustable. You can sight in, and then zero the scale. Great feature!

2. It is easy to adjust. No nonsense, you just turn the knob, and it is approximately 1/4 MOA adjustment per click. You do not absolutely need a screwdriver, although it makes it easier.

3. There is no lock down, the sight is built robust enough that it works without it. This allows it to be a true target sight that may be adjusted on the fly.

A fourth advantage to some is the ability to remove the top half of the sight with just a long set screw (to return to the same position), and the push of a button. Apparently these sights are very reliable for returning to their zero. I personally have not tried this out, as I don't have a need to remove the sight.

I am also aware both can be had with target knobs. You still need a screw driver to use the Williams FP with it's lockdown though, so what is the point in that?

The Williams FP is a usable sight. I did shoot with it a lot, and it did function. The Lyman 57 is better, and I can't think of a single advantage the Williams had. It's just plain inferior.




As for the Williams twilight apertures, I have one installed in my Lyman 57 right now for hunting in two weeks. I tried a bunch in low light. No surprise the larger the aperture hole, the better. I also ditched the globe sight for a blade. What I liked about the Williams twilight aperture was not that it had any special properties. The brass ring simply gives your eye something to center when the dark turns the aperture blurry. You could do as Pietro does too, it's the same principle.

[idahoron]

I'll just quickly list the issues with the Williams FP sights.

1. It's not easily adjustable. You need to loosen a lock screw, which can get stuck if you overtighten, then use a screwdriver to adjust the sight.

2. The scale is worthless. When I asked Williams about this, I was told "it's just for reference". Ok, well with the sight screwed all the way up, you are only about half way up the scale they printed. You can then move it higher with your fingers, you can even go about 1/4" past the end of the scale.

3. Along with #2, it is very difficult to adjust beyond the half way point, as the adjusting screw no longer works. This is definitely NOT a target sight.

4. This is more a Williams problem, but the FP-Hawken rear sight, coupled with their own recommended low base and lowest globe sight do NOT work. To sight in at 50 yards requires the rear sight to be about maxed all the way up. It is odd a company would make a front and rear sight for a specific gun that do not work together.

Now what makes the Lyman 57 sight better.

1. The scale works, and is adjustable. You can sight in, and then zero the scale. Great feature!

2. It is easy to adjust. No nonsense, you just turn the knob, and it is approximately 1/4 MOA adjustment per click. You do not absolutely need a screwdriver, although it makes it easier.

3. There is no lock down, the sight is built robust enough that it works without it. This allows it to be a true target sight that may be adjusted on the fly.

A fourth advantage to some is the ability to remove the top half of the sight with just a long set screw (to return to the same position), and the push of a button. Apparently these sights are very reliable for returning to their zero. I personally have not tried this out, as I don't have a need to remove the sight.

I am also aware both can be had with target knobs. You still need a screw driver to use the Williams FP with it's lockdown though, so what is the point in that?

The Williams FP is a usable sight. I did shoot with it a lot, and it did function. The Lyman 57 is better, and I can't think of a single advantage the Williams had. It's just plain inferior.




As for the Williams twilight apertures, I have one installed in my Lyman 57 right now for hunting in two weeks. I tried a bunch in low light. No surprise the larger the aperture hole, the better. I also ditched the globe sight for a blade. What I liked about the Williams twilight aperture was not that it had any special properties. The brass ring simply gives your eye something to center when the dark turns the aperture blurry. You could do as Pietro does too, it's the same principle.

I have the Lyman 57 SML on several rifles. I also have two of the FP sights. Honestly they are both very good sights.

My insight on the problems you have with the FP

#1 Actually a guy doesn't need a screwdriver at all. Just a Gib Lock screw, and target elevator knob.

https://i.imgur.com/QSPL1Rf.jpg

#2 Yes the scale is useless. But to be honest on both the Lyman and the FP I make my own sight marks. In this picture you can see my painted on marks. They are much quicker and work without a cheat sheet to tell me what one to use for 175 yards.

https://i.imgur.com/jGbLDtL.jpg

#3 On my FP I am able to get out to 300 yards. I am sure I could go farther but just haven't.
That said I am using a spacer under my sight that allows me to get out farther than original. I am also using a Lyman 17 AHB globe sight. To be honest I don't see why it can't be used for target. It just takes a little different set up.

#4 I can't speak to the Hawken sight by williams. I don't have one but I would work around the problem.


The things you like about the Lyman

#1 Again the scale for me is useless on both sights. Like I said I paint my own marks on the sight. I have them in 50 yard increments.

#2 I also like the lyman adjustment a lot. I like the push button quick release. It allows me to adjust the sigh to the shot at hand. But the williams FP with the Gib lock screw and elevation knob is just as fast and easy.

#3 when set up right both are adjustable on the fly. If the Williams wasn't I wouldn't have them.

#4 yes you can take the Lyman sight out of the base. Then put it back on and it will still be sighted in. I take mine off all the time if I think there is a possibility that the sight might get damaged. But to be honest, the FP can be removed as well. It is not as fast to take off and put on as the Lyman but it does return to the original sight in just like the lyman.

The Lyman sight is a great sight. Like I said I have several of them on all my side locks. The Williams sight is a very good sight but it needs up grades to make it in the same league as the Lyman. The way mine are set up they are equal in accuracy and function out to 300 yards.

[megasupermagnum]

This about sums up my feelings too. "The Williams sight is a very good sight but it needs up grades to make it in the same league as the Lyman." - idahoron

There's always a way if you are determined, like your thumb screw to replace the slotted screw for the lock down. You still can't adjust the sight more than half way up without replacing the elevation screw with something else too.

All I'm saying is the Williams sight is inferior to Lyman, not that it didn't work. You are saying the same thing. The only difference is you made the Williams work, where my opinion is to just avoid it and get the Lyman in the first place.