A 90's S&W 586, your thoughts?

[Petander]

Getting back to silhouette because I can still see. I may not need an elephant caliber after all.

So I'm looking at a 586 from (most probably) early 90's. It has that nice quick adjustable AF front sight and hammer firing pin.

It is relatively tight,not "one piece" tight but tighter than my new S&W500 ever was. Looks clean, has one idiot mark on a screw though. Excellen trigger.

I see lots of these (586,686) around for sale these days for not so much money,wonder what's up? I always thought these were quality guns,drooled over these sights back in the 90's. Yes silhouette is out of fashion now but still...? Accuracy potential should still be here,right?

Your thoughts?

https://i.postimg.cc/VN0MVhTm/IMG-20191022-233652-654.jpg

[Petrol & Powder]

A pre-lock L-frame is seldom a mistake.

The buggered screw may be an indictor that someone that didn't know what they were doing has had the side plate off. I would check for hammer push off and other signs of a bad action job, but you should be doing that anyway.

I would check that revolver like any other revolver. If it passes your inspection and the price is right, I would recommend you buy it.

[jaguarxk120]

Any pre-lock is on the buy list. Anything with the lock and MIM parts just
does not look right

[bosterr]

I'd buy it! Between me and my sons we have 4 8 3/8" 586/686 and 1 6" 586. When I did silhouette I used a 10 1/2" Super Blackhawk because the thinking back then was a S&W didn't hold up to red line loads we used. Then here in western Pa. in the late 80's and early 90's 4 local clubs started Woods Walk. 25 steel animal targets on a trail at unknown distances. We used the long barrel Smiths to take advantage of the longer sight radius and the slightly better performance. 3 of the long barrel ones wear scopes so we could shoot the scoped revolver class. A really great trigger could be achieved by swapping out the rebound slide spring with a Wolffe 12 pound spring. None of our revolvers would return the trigger 100% with a 11# spring but the 12# always did.

[Petander]

Googling around tells me this could be 86-88...?

https://i.postimg.cc/rp1ksBfw/IMG-20191024-002540-336.jpg

[Petrol & Powder]

I think the dash 3 series L-frames started in 1988.

[Petander]

Throats are all the same, very even. I can push a .3583 slug through them with finger pressure.

Forcing cone looks right for the bullets to go on. Barrel looks healthy, not slugged yet but shoots J-ammo normally. Looking good for cast!

https://i.postimg.cc/7Y3kQj24/IMG-20191024-104543.jpg

[Bookworm]

I agree that a pre-lock Smith is rarely a bad choice.

I also think the dramatic rise in price if those revolvers has eased off somewhat. The prices, while still rising, are not going up as quickly.

The relatively low price on long barreled 585/686 models, in my view, is due to a few things.
First, those long barrels make the revolvers a specialty gun. Impossible to holster carry, at least in polite company.

Second, interest in classic revolvers has waned. The younger shooters seem more interested in autoloaders, viewing revolvers with mild interest as a curiosity

It's a good looking revolver. I would have a hard time passing it up.

[Forrest r]

The 586-3's were drilled and taped at the factory for scopes/scope mounts. Had a 4" 586-3 years ago that I put a reddot on, caveman simple. Put the dot on what you want to hit and press the loud button.

Don't know if I've been lucky or not, but every one of the 586/686's I've owned were extremely accurate. Owning 4 different 586/686's over the decades and still own a 586 & 686 to this day. The 586 has the mim parts and the lock, so does the 686. Both are box stock, have excellent triggers and flat out shoot bugholes in paper.

The only drawback I've found with the 586/686's is they need to get rebuilt every 100,000 rounds if you give them a steady diet of hot/full house loads.

[Petrol & Powder]

............

The only drawback I've found with the 586/686's is they need to get rebuilt every 100,000 rounds if you give them a steady diet of hot/full house loads.


A rebuild every 100,000 rounds...that's really unfortunate. Like having to rebuild your Cummins B series engine every 500,000 miles ....
:kidding:

[murf205]

Petander, that gun is a "buy right now" if it isn't priced over the moon. Those S&W's that will allow a .3583 slug to pass through with finger pressure are rare indeed. Most I have had were a tight .357. You will love it. BTW, you can get replacement blued screws for cheap

[gnostic]

Yeah Buddy, that's a thing of beauty. It could follow me home anytime.....

[Petander]

Checking & zeroing. All normal.

https://i.postimg.cc/LX50VPQC/IMG-20191024-171044.jpg

[Petander]

Those S&W's that will allow a .3583 slug to pass through with finger pressure are rare indeed.

In that case I got very lucky here.

I only had PMC and Magtech JSP ammo to start out with. After a while PMC gave me a couple of 75 meter groups where three bullets were in 1" but the rest two make the group grow to 3". Sounds like a healthy gun to me.

I got worried at first,missed the target a few times but the gun was just shooting 6" to the left at 75. I was impatient and started out a bit long after only breaking a few clays at 20 or so. The whole paper was maybe 12x12. Black circled holes are one group.

https://i.postimg.cc/1ts0sVqm/IMG-20191024-172316.jpg

This is my last group, 75 meter zero. Took one more click to the right,confirmed with clays.

https://i.postimg.cc/qRvrPQjp/IMG-20191024-195203-769.jpg

[Bookworm]

Looks like you got a shooter. Enjoy!

[stubshaft]

Looks like a good shooting gun to me. I used to use a 6" slab side 586 for PPC in the early 80's.

[Petander]

Thanks everyone!

As a side note: My 2018 S&W500 still has variations in the cocking feel. One cylinder in particular needs much more force than the others. Irritating,I tend to start with the hard cylinder so I don't need to wait and guess...

This 586 is smooooooth and even after all the years. The trigger is to die for (pun). And here is a nice,proper forcing cone,too. As far as I can tell,this one is ready for a .358 boolit.

And no flying brass to pick up. Funny how this is getting more important as years go by.

[arlon]

I have a 686 (no dash) with the adjustable front sight. It's one of the more accurate revolvers I've ever owned. I've always wondered if the silhouette versions got some kind of special treatment when assembled.

[mattw]

That is a most wonderful shootin iron! I have the 686 version of that gun and put 1000's of rounds thru it over several years. The adjustable sight is a huge win, when you are working at various distances. I would hate to say how many pre-hillary hole Smiths I own, but I will say that I own 0 post-hillary hole guns. That particular 686 is one of my all time favorite pistols!

[Petander]

100 meters today.

I have an A4 size steel plate back there. Have to admit that I hit it better with the Puma carbine... offhand both of course....table was for pic only. But to my surprise,even 38 Special ammo was accurate enough for the plate with the 586. Quick adjustable front sight is a HUGE help here.

I had 38 ammo to check the carbine,it's not mine,there is some chamber problem,full power 357 brass (supposedly) sticks. It's a warranty return rifle,I found no real problem,ejected brass gets a bit ugly and out of round but nothing serious. Lots of fun indeed,feed bang clang. And the Smith works with 38 surprisingly good. Gotta clean these now because of 38.

https://i.postimg.cc/qqfZLNny/IMG-20191026-142149.jpg

[osteodoc08]

I have a newer Hillary hole 586 I picked up some time ago that is a joy to shoot (after it went back for light primer strikes) and I still regret getting rid of a 686 no dash with 8" barrel. Nice shooting indeed!

[Petrol & Powder]

Petander - You have a winner ! That gun is a keeper.

As for the accuracy potential of the 38 Special - That cartridge really is "Special" and there's a reason that it has been with us for over 100 years.

[Petander]

I made some food for the 586 with my old Lee 158 6-holer. Some seams etc,it has made over 50 k bullets , most of which I used with 9mm sub loads.

I do have an excuse for a nice heavy NOE or Mihec mold now... or maybe Accurate,have none yet... once you start spoiling yourself with custom molds,well,you know...

https://i.postimg.cc/mr34wTTD/IMG-20191028-212714.jpg

[Forrest r]

You might consider taking a look at 1 of the mp 359-640 molds. They have the high/low crimp groove in them.
https://i.imgur.com/3f3FUJ4.jpg?1

When loading 38spl's for a newer (3 year old) 686 with the hillery hole and mim parts, I seat the bullets in in the bottom crimp groove.
https://i.imgur.com/AL4WBux.jpg

I don't shoot at distances anymore but shooting shotgun shells @ 50ft can be entertaining. Same rules/setup as bowling pins, just shotgun shells instead of pins & 50ft instead of 25ft.

Actually 1 of these days I'm going to have to break down and do some real testing looking for an accurate load. Those loads pictured above were the 1st set of test loads I tested when I 1st got the nib686. There was a clays load testing that day also, it sucked have 6-shot groups that could be covered with a nickel.

586's/686's will flat out shoot.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I came into my 586 in '92 where I swapped a Model 10 2" and $200 for a 6" Smith 586. I still have it. I had the action and trigger worked over and it is a truly very accurate shooter. My wife loved it so much that I bought another. This one sported a 8 3/8 " barrel and I slapped a red dot sight on it. The jury is still out as I have yet to shoot it. Time to go to the range.

[Petander]

You might consider taking a look at 1 of the mp 359-640 molds. They have the high/low crimp groove in them.


Dang this is a really nice idea,thank you.

Having the 38 option is surprisingly nice,I never fired 38's in a 357 before. It's like having another caliber in between 22LR and 357. The easiest "conversion kit" ever.

[Art in Colorado]

Bought a 6 inch 686 no dash back in th early 80's. They were recalled due to primer flow back. Went back to S&W but still would lock up due to this. Also, would spit lead. Moved it soon after although it was an accurate revlover. I then wen't through several 686 no dash, dash 1 and 2's with similar problems. Then discovered the dash 3 and 4's. These six guns are magical. I tell any one looking for a 357 DA to not think of passing one by. I have had a couple of Ruger GP-100 and as a good revolver they do not match the S&W 686 dash 3 or 4. Just my opinion. Ruger should just stick to SA revolvers that I dearly love.

[Petander]

I've been eyeballing a very nice condition 6" 586-1 with no "M" -stamp.

But well,I didn't do my alloy math properly and ended up with BHN 10 boolits. EDIT no it's only BHN 8 !!! I tried them anyway to really push Hi Tek coating. Got some lead in the forcing cone, nowhere else. I used very fast VV N320 powder,a medium load (for that powder). Broke my chrono battery wire (gotta love those 9V clips!) so no velocity data today.

https://i.postimg.cc/G3sx6pnQ/IMG-20191031-123332.jpg

This is after four full cylinders. I was hitting a 6" 25 m plate normally all the time. These 358 boolits can be pushed through the cylinders:

https://i.postimg.cc/Y04nsNff/IMG-20191031-194347-101.jpg.

I might try these heat treated... But I also mixed some 40 lbs proper BHN 15 (hopefully) today for correct boolits.

[murf205]

Petander, that is a great looking range set up you have. Is it at your home?

[Petander]

Petander, that is a great looking range set up you have. Is it at your home?

Not at home but very close. Pics of two places in this thread,one range is a five minute drive,another takes 15 minutes. And there's one more,again 15 minutes... all these are only 100 meters but I consider this almost a luxury these days.

We moved here (nowhere in the country woods) 25 years ago because of all these outdoor possibilities. I have lived in New York City and Rio De Janeiro, got my share of big cities back then.

This is not NYC:

https://i.postimg.cc/XN9s2VX8/IMG-20191101-150222.jpg

[murf205]

It sure as hell isn't! I have the same deal. I moved to my place 40 yrs ago and hunted and shot with only a walk out the door but.... we were "discovered". A safe place to shoot is much appreciated and even more so when you don't have one.

[Petander]

Going good.

158 plain base RF sized 358,BHN 14,a generous charge of Vihtavuori N110. Hi Tek three coats. A pocketful of rounds,75 maybe.


https://i.postimg.cc/gcDP0Q3M/IMG-20191106-192917-028.jpg

I got another 358 sizer today and made it 359... should have stopped at 3585 now that I'm thinking.

Considering how much money we save by casting our own,isn't it funny how we keep buying "stuff" all the time?

[Chill Wills]

There is a good bit of experience here with the S&W 586. I do not want to highjack the thread too much. Was there a problem with the early no dash 586 revolvers with primer blowback into the firing pin hole and light firing pin strikes? I see both issues mentioned in this thread.
I have owned a little fired 586 since new in 1981 it has both these problems.... but never before this summer when I started shooting it with my son. It was a safe queen until now. Strange.

[Petrol & Powder]

The light firing pin strike may be an anomaly to that particular revolver.

Primers flowing into the firing pin bushing WAS a problem with the early L-frames and there was a recall. The revolvers that were returned to S&W for that recall received a "M" stamped on the frame under the yoke to designate that recall had been complied with.

[Petander]

I was eyeballing a 586-1 with no "M" some time ago. Overseas recalls didn't always happen. There must be a few "no-dash-no-m"s around here,too.

I really like the feel,fit & function here. And throat size.

[txbirdman]

As I recall that primer flow was only with 1 certain 125 gr bullet. I have a 4” 686-1 with no “M”. Since I shoot only 158’s I’ve never bothered to send it back and have experienced no problems.

[Petrol & Powder]

The primer flow problem was related to the firing pin bushing. I've never heard anything that relates that issue to bullet weight. I think you may be confusing the forcing cone issue on magnum K-frames and 125 grain bullets with the firing pin bushing recall on early L-frame models. Those are two different issues.

[txbirdman]

Maybe you’re right. I seem to disremember a lot of stuff here lately.

[Blazenet]

The bluing on the older Smiths is just beautiful

[Mitch]

I have several.The 686 N0 dash 6 inch was my fist hangun bot it new in 1983.i reclla i payed $300 for it.Then came the 586-3 8 3/8 inch.found the sales slipe foprmit a while back was $355 in september of 1990. the 586 ha s allways been a much better shooter between the 2.Lately i got a 586 no dash 6 inch it shoot just as well as the 8 inch.great shooters in the 586s i neve vever owned another 686 so can compir there.Prices for revolers is realy hi here so dont knw if ill spring for another or not

[Petander]

The primer flow problem was related to the firing pin bushing. I've never heard anything that relates that issue to bullet weight. I think you may be confusing the forcing cone issue on magnum K-frames and 125 grain bullets with the firing pin bushing recall on early L-frame models. Those are two different issues.

Could it be that 125 loads have been mentioned because they were the hottest at the time?

I've been shooting 359 sized 163 grns BHN 14 lately with good success. Vihtavuori N110 full power.

[DHDeal]

My 686 4" was purchased in 1985 and had the firing pin bushing issue. I didn't know it until I had the gun worked over by a good revolversmith a year or so later. I seem to remember that the problem wasn't prevalent until a lot of these guns were being shot with hot loads (probably the Federal 125 JHP). My revolver was tightened up and didn't have any wiggle room anymore and when firing hot loads, the cylinder would tie up because those primers would flow back into the recessed bushing. PITA to "untie" it! It got fixed quick and I never had the problem again.

I still have the revolver as it was both my first handgun and my first duty gun (after it was modified of course). I probably haven't fired it in 25 years but it is still has a slick trigger pull and is beauty. The Millet rear sight is certainly more rare these days than the revolver is.

Sorry for the hijack, but this thread took me down memory lane a ways.....

[Petrol & Powder]

A friend that was a factory trained S&W armorer told me that the problem was relatively rare but S&W recalled those early L-frames out of an abundance of caution.

The fix was a new firing pin bushing and all was well after that.

[threedflyer]

Love the silhouette sight

[Petander]

Love the silhouette sight

Yes,it's something I envied 25 years ago.

Mihec NLG 180 grain .359 first test passed with flying colours today.

https://i.postimg.cc/hPK3KC9p/IMG-20191116-153207.jpg

[dogdoc]

My 686 no dash has never had a problem without being modified. When modified, I believe all thy did was install a smaller firing pin and bushing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Petander]

My 686 no dash has never had a problem without being modified. When modified, I believe all thy did was install a smaller firing pin and bushing.


Yes that was it.

Loads were 43,500 psi back then,add to that the Federal primer that was used in the 125 Federal load... SAAMI max is 35000 now since -95 or so... CIP is still 43,5k. All 357 Magnum guns are CIP proofed at around 60k psi here in Eurokistan.

[dogdoc]

Yes that was it.

Loads were 43,500 psi back then,add to that the Federal primer that was used in the 125 Federal load... SAAMI max is 35000 now since -95 or so... CIP is still 43,5k. All 357 Magnum guns are CIP proofed at around 60k psi here in Eurokistan.

You opened a can of worms now. I argued that point with references a while back and got shot down by some on this forum but I did not care as it is all for fun. I agree that 357 magnum pressures are lower now for the most part. Just look at newer load data compared to older. I suspect older 46000 cup loads when tested on piezo equipment would have a psi level greater than modern saami specs in psi (35000)in most cases. Pearce of handloader magazine, who has more experience and access to the industry than anybody here has stated that several times in his articles on the 357 magnum.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Petander]

Yep,even the Quick Load program has both SAAMI and CIP options for 357 magnum pressure.

I took a pic of a load of mine, NOTE THE CARBINE BARREL LENGTH.

https://i.postimg.cc/fyCrVpbQ/IMG-20191118-094615.jpg

That's what I am actually getting from a carbine,too.



But 8 3/8" should give more like 1500, not 1350 fps that I got today:


https://i.postimg.cc/44MFYp5M/IMG-20191118-133711.jpg.

Too much blow-by? There is some.

[Petander]

I did some measuring,this has less endshake than my new S&W500.