Lee 4# pot

[kmw1954]

Looking for some quick input on a possible purchase.

I have a line on a used Lee 4# pot for a very good price locally but not sure I should jump on this. I really would like a 20# pot like the Magnum or the 4-20 put I am thinking this would hold me for now as I am only casting small 102gr bullets with a 2 cavity mold. So what I am asking is this, has anyone used one of these small pots with a Lyman ladle and how well did it work? With small batches was the pot able to keep up? Was the small pot tight or crowded with the ladle? Is the pot deep enough to use the ladle?

Should I buy this for the interim, until I have more experience and a couple bigger molds or should I wait?

[poppy42]

I used a Lee 4# pot for years before I got my 4/20. It was slow but it worked. With that being said only you can say whether or not it suits your needs . I will say had to 4 pound pot not been given to me I probably would’ve opted for at least a 10 pound pad to start off with . Hope this helps

[kmw1954]

Thanks poppy42, I can get this for $20.00 and it is in like new condition an I know at some point I will move to a 20# pot. Right now I use a 5.5" sauce pan and a hot plate and it is very slow to get started but once everything is liquid it stays at temp pretty well. Also my casting is done outside so not sure how much more I will get to over the winter.

[Dimner]

If it were me, I would go straight for a Magnum melter #20. I think they are like $55 bucks. I have the lyman big dip at 10#. And while I have cast some good bullets with it, I have the best success when I dont go any lower than 1/2 the pot. Then the temp gets all wonky.

I'm going from the 10# lyman to a magnum melter.

Oh and a 4# pot outside in the winter in WI? no way. I don't think it could keep up.

[Mitch]

Never used a 4 lb pot sure seems small to me.nothing wrong with the lee 4-20 cast alot of bullets from one.I now mainly use a RCBS Pro Melt along with the lee 4-20.I am with poppy42 put your 20 buck toward something more use full.Kinda the buy once cry once thing.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I started out with a Lee 4-20 and when it got very leaky I bought another. Then I found a decent deal on a RCBS Pro Melt 22lb pot and I gave in. Now I use the 2 Lee's to premelt my alloy and when the alloy level on the RCBS falls below half full I use a handy piece of steel channel to funnel pre melted alloy into the RCBS from either of the Lee 4-20's. I keep the Lee's on a shelf higher than the Pro Melt furnace and it works out very well as I can keep up with using two Lee six bangers at a very decent rate of production. When you are filling 230 gr cavities you go thru hot alloy pretty darned quickly and you do not want to stop to load and melt new cold ingots as this will break your concentration etc.

I shoot up .45's at a prodigious rate along with 9 MM's and .38's. I also do a lot of .44 Special's and 41 Magnum's as well. The weight of alloy used goes from 135 gr to 250 gr and I utilize a lot of alloy.

[Bazoo]

I have a lee 4lbs pot. It works with the Lyman dipper but it's tight. It is hard to keep up with larger bullets as the pot empties fast. With the lee 358-140-SWC I was able to make a respectable pile of bullets.

Realistically it's usable but you spend a lot of time refilling the pot and letting it come to temperature. If you use a hot plate to keep the mould up to temperature it'll work a lot better.

I use the magnum melter now and it's worlds better.

[LenH]

I started out with a 4# pot in the 70's when I first started out. I also used a Lyman ladle and 2 cavity Lyman molds. I have cast piles of 255 gr. LSWC with that rig.
With that being said, it took a while and it kept me shooting and I still have that little pot and use it occasionally for making crappie jigs.

[Bazoo]

I have a new production Lyman dipper. I removed the left handed nub on mine to make it fit better. I ground it off and then peened the threaded part so it wouldn't screw out of the hole.

[gwpercle]

I used a 4# pot with single and double cavity moulds for years...
the truth is it's like trying to swim with a concrete block tied around your neck ...it slows you down !

Just about the time your mould and alloy are at a good casting temperature...you run out of metal .
So then you have to stop add ingots and wait for the alloy to get hot and then get your mould hot...again ...you spend way too much time heating up alloy and moulds than actually casting boolits.
I wish someone had told me 50 years ago...Get the Lee Magnum Melter , I got one about 10 years ago....Oh Lord...it is so nice to have an ample supply of hot metal.
I did retire my 50 year old Lyman ladle...the new Lyman ladle has a longer shaft for the deeper Magnum Melter pot and works great. Get the 20# pot and Lyman Ladle...I wish I had one when I started all those years ago !
Gary

[Bazoo]

I got my magnum melter off ebay. I gave around 45 dollars (shipped) used for it, and it had 5-6 pounds alloy in it.

I started with a cast iron pan on a propane stove. It worked, as did the 4lb pot. But the 20 pound pot takes a heap of the frustration out of it. The consistency of heat from the volume of alloy is much better.

[tankgunner59]

I have a Lee 10 pound pot and my smallest mold is a 55 grain bullet for my 22-250. The largest is 180 grain for my mosin nagants. This pot is enough for me but I don't have to cast real frequently. If you plan to cast very much it will probably be hard for it to keep up. But this is something only you can decide. If you have the finances it could be a good interim for what you're going to cast for now.

[kmw1954]

Thank you all so very much for your experiences and recommendations.

So this is were I am now. Last night a Production IV pot came up on ebay with a BIN of $40.00 + $11.50 shipping, it looked pretty clean and not all beat up so I bought it. I had thoughts all along that the 4# was going to be small and you all just reinforced that notion. I understand the IV is the same diameter as the 4# pot only the IV is deeper. So I am ready to try this bottom pour technique to see how it works and if I don't like it I'll trade it off for a Magnum Melter.

Looking at this also as a new experience and a chance to learn first hand something new. Can never discount experience!

[Green Frog]

Late to the discussion, but I can’t imagine buying a 4# pot for anything but perhaps doing short experimental runs to test a new mould or some such... but than again, I use bottom pour pots all the time so I’m not sure I’d use the 4 pounder even for that. YMMV, this is just based on my own experience.

Froggie

[gwpercle]

Thank you all so very much for your experiences and recommendations.

So this is were I am now. Last night a Production IV pot came up on ebay with a BIN of $40.00 + $11.50 shipping, it looked pretty clean and not all beat up so I bought it. I had thoughts all along that the 4# was going to be small and you all just reinforced that notion. I understand the IV is the same diameter as the 4# pot only the IV is deeper. So I am ready to try this bottom pour technique to see how it works and if I don't like it I'll trade it off for a Magnum Melter.

Looking at this also as a new experience and a chance to learn first hand something new. Can never discount experience!
When pre heating , melting and casting keep the pot sitting in a large metal pan .

[kmw1954]

Yeup, very large cookie sheet pan

[Bazoo]

I have been hanging on to my 4lb pot, thinking it might do for casting round balls. The way I run a while, was to use the 4lb pot and ladle, but I fed it with a 10 pound bottom pour that was given to me by a nice member here. I decided I prefer ladle pour so I put the 10 pounder in the swap box after I scored the magnum melter.

[kmw1954]

Bazoo I can follow that thinking. Waiting on the IV to arrive so I can give it a try and like you I may just find I prefer ladle pouring over the bottom pour. But of course I won't know until I try. Right?

[44magLeo]

kmw1954, if you don't like the bottom pour you can just tap the hole in the spout and thread in a screw.
Then remove the handle and plunger. Then use it with your ladle.
Leo

[kmw1954]

Thank you Leo I will keep that in mind!

[country gent]

One thing I have found with the smaller pots is that when ladle casting the smaller dia and flat bottom lowers the useable capacity by a pound or 2 you just cant ladle any farther down. Another is even with 100 grn bullets and the sprue there isn't a lot of bullets in that pot. Weigh a bullet with a sprue and see what the total weight is. One plus to the smaller pots is they tend to heat up faster than bigger pots. They are also affected by winds and cold weather faster than bigger pots.

[poppy42]

One thing I have found with the smaller pots is that when ladle casting the smaller dia and flat bottom lowers the useable capacity by a pound or 2 you just cant ladle any farther down. Another is even with 100 grn bullets and the sprue there isn't a lot of bullets in that pot. Weigh a bullet with a sprue and see what the total weight is. One plus to the smaller pots is they tend to heat up faster than bigger pots. They are also affected by winds and cold weather faster than bigger pots.

Tilt the pot! I used to slide an ingot or 2 under one end of the pot so I could use all the lead in the pot

[kmw1954]

So I am hoping the 10# Production IV pot is her Monday or Tuesday. Also just won an ebay auction for a newer Lee 2 cavity 452-200 SWC.

[kmw1954]

The Lee Production IV post just arrived and I must say it is much small than I anticipated. Compared to the 5.5" diameter sauce pan I was using this thing is tiny!

[The Dar]

The Lee Production IV post just arrived and I must say it is much small than I anticipated. Compared to the 5.5" diameter sauce pan I was using this thing is tiny!

Try it and report back to us. I think you'll appreciate how fast it will melt your lead compared to the hot plate and sauce pan. I would have sprung for the 4-20, but if you ever go to a larger furnace you'll always have use for the Production IV pot.

[jessdigs]

You could get the lee 4-20 pot. Upgrade the mould guide with the one from noe. The mold guide adapters Just got back onb stock and won't last long.
And Get a PID from one of the VS or build one.

I started with the 4-20 and got the PID. Works really good. Just upgraded the mold guide. It makes it the perfect setup paired with a cheap hot plate from Amazon.

All in, it's the same price as the RCBS pro melt 2 or the Lyman mag 25. About $275.
If i would have known that's where i would end up, I would have bought the one with the PID From the beginning.


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[kmw1954]

You could get the lee 4-20 pot. Upgrade the mould guide with the one from noe. The mold guide adapters Just got back onb stock and won't last long.
And Get a PID from one of the VS or build one.

Now why would I want to do all that when I just received this one and haven't even tried it yet? I haven't even determined yet if I will even like the bottom pour and just go back to ladling.

Also I spent years working with PID and PLC's many times working in conjunction running production ovens and flash freezers in the food industry. Don't want or need that level of sophistication or expense just to melt lead. All that is needed is a good eye and a little attention to let the lead product tell you what it needs. That is the Art and not the Science.

[poppy42]

Now why would I want to do all that when I just received this one and haven't even tried it yet? I haven't even determined yet if I will even like the bottom pour and just go back to ladling.

Also I spent years working with PID and PLC's many times working in conjunction running production ovens and flash freezers in the food industry. Don't want or need that level of sophistication or expense just to melt lead. All that is needed is a good eye and a little attention to let the lead product tell you what it needs. That is the Art and not the Science.

What he said^^^^^

[kmw1954]

Thanks poppy42.

I have all my ingots poured into muffin size biscuits and from the looks of it I will only be able to fit 2 at a time in this pot to get a melt started. Also how far down do you all run your pots when you finish a session?

[Bazoo]

I don't run down any more than about 2/3. When running a bottom dripper, just set an ingot on the ledge and let it heat. When you need it, ease it into the pot with pliers. I often could do that and not stop for the melt to regain lost temperature.

[poppy42]

For me it really depends. I have no set amount I leave in a pot. Sometimes I use it all sometimes half a pot. Like I said in a previous post when I used the 4# pot I used to put an ingot under the back of the pot tipping it up so I didn’t have to fill it so often. An as for pids and thermometers, I know others swear by them I’ve never seen the need. I’m not knocking how anyone else cast boolets. If it works for you that’s great. I look at it this way. man has been casting bullets since firearms were invented. I kinda feel some folk make it more complicated than it has to be . If the lead/ alloy melts and fills the molds the pot and the mold is hot enough. If it takes a long time for the boolets to harden then ya probably have the pot and or the mold to hot. But that’s just me.
Anyway Good luck with your new pot.
Be safe, have fun, and enjoy.

[poppy42]

Oh and I almost forgot. Most muffin pans are tapered. when I was using a smaller pot I generally didn’t fill the muffin pan up all the way. That make a diameter a little smaller and I could fit more ingots in a pot then . I hope this helps

[jessdigs]

Now why would I want to do all that when I just received this one and haven't even tried it yet? I haven't even determined yet if I will even like the bottom pour and just go back to ladling.

Also I spent years working with PID and PLC's many times working in conjunction running production ovens and flash freezers in the food industry. Don't want or need that level of sophistication or expense just to melt lead. All that is needed is a good eye and a little attention to let the lead product tell you what it needs. That is the Art and not the Science.

My point was that if you were going to buy a pid AND upgrade your lee pot with a mold guide, you would be in it for the same cost as the new rcbs pro melt or new Lyman with pid built in.

I get the art, and the science. For me, a new caster without years of experience to where i can read and interpret the signs, the science works better.

I turn it on and cast, and get the same results as a 50 year caster that knows why his knowledge and attention to detail give him prefect results.


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[kmw1954]

My point was that if you were going to buy a pid AND upgrade your lee pot with a mold guide, you would be in it for the same cost as the new rcbs pro melt or new Lyman with pid built in.

Guess it was that you post caught me as odd seeing as I just purchased a cheap used pot. Guess some would make those modifications but here for me that just doesn't make sense. If those were details that made a difference I would have bought one already set up that way. As for my casting experience, I have exactly 6 casting sessions under my belt and the last session I cast about 400 bullets and my rejection rate after getting to temp was about 15, these were all done on a hot plate with a Lyman ladle. The 1st 2 sessions just about everything went back into the pot!

I too am a firm believer in one should use whatever works best for them. At this point the old hot plate, pan and ladle was also working I just wanted to try something better, more efficient.

[Bazoo]

It'll be interesting to see if you take to bottom pouring. I prefer ladle casting. I use the run over to help control mould temperature. That's not as easy with a bottom pour unless you modify the pot so you have clearance for a container to catch the overflow.

If you do get the the 20lb pot later on, that one would be more easily converted to ladle pour. Or, it's big enough to be used with a ladle with the bottom pour parts in place.

[lightman]

I think you will be glad that you bought a pot larger pot. You were going to have a lot of down time, waiting on a 4# pot. As far as upgrades, I cast for a long time without a PID or even a thermometer.

[Bazoo]

I don't use a PID or thermometer. I wouldn't mind a thermometer, but realistically it wouldn't help me much. It's a feel good item. I can live with the unknown of what my alloy temperature is. There is a narrow window of heat where the mould and alloy act correct. Once you learn it, you don't need those crutches. That's my take on it.

[kmw1954]

Thanks guys, after the short session today I am glad I didn't buy the 4# pot and the jury is still out about bottom pour vs ladling.

As I mentioned previously I spent many of my last working years doing production maintenance in the food industry working with both production ovens and production freezers so I hope I understand a little bit about temperatures, how to control and regulate them and how temps effect products. Things can be over cooked and under cooked. Frozen things can also be under frozen. Same goes for metal in many different ways such as welding, soldering and heat treating.

I have worked with many PID's, PLC's and analog/relay timers, many times they were all used in conjunction with one another and again I have no interest in bringing that technology to my simple process of melting lead for a few hundred bullets at a time. As Bazoo mentions with what we are doing there is a rather small window of correct temperature that will work for what we are doing. Too hot we get frosting, too cold we get wrinkles. Just right and the bullets look great, have complete fill out and sharply defined details. This can be controlled easily by temperature of the alloy or by the pace at which we work.

Maybe if I were going to cast 40lbs. of 105gr bullets with a 6 cavity mold at one session then maybe I would reconsider but at current usage 500 of these bullets will last me 6 months. That is 1 session even with my small 2 cavity mold. I also do not cast 9mm and haven't actually shot and cast in any of my 45acp so I do not know how well they will work.

Anyone that has these PID's and it helps them that is fantastic, keep going and enjoy what you are doing. I just don't feel the need.