Too hot to shoot?

[NBraun]

I think I may have messed up. I put together some 357 rounds, using a 158gr LSWC with 13.5gr 2400. I was using the supplied hornady electric scale, which I've found out isn't all that trustworthy, as it tends to fluctuate up to 2 grains. I pulled some rounds and its saying they're actually 14-15 gr. I have a new better scale on the way to double check that they're actually that hot, but my question is. Is 15 gr too hot? I've checked load data from Lyman 3rd edition, and the online resource, both of which say 15.5 is the max, and I've checked Alliant which is saying 14.8 is the max for a Speed GDHP.

I'm shooting a modern S&W Model 19. I've read that 15 gr is really too much for this load, so that's why i'm concerned about it.

Thanks for the help!

[35remington]

Given you don’t know the entire range of the possible variation which could be more than you know, safe advice is to pull ‘em.

[Hrfunk]

Yep, I concur. I had something similar happen once with .44 Magnums. I pulled them all and started over.

Howard

[dvnv]

The model 19 isn't the best gun for digesting extra heat, I'd also pull them.

[JBinMN]

Ditto on the pulling the boolits. At least one or two & re-weigh them, Better safe than sorry.

15.3 is the max. for a 158gr. LSWC one of the Alliant references(http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloaders-reference/load-lookup-by-powder) : AL 2400 357 Remington Magnum 158 158 LSWC 15.3 1620 1.58 34000 Alliant

But if you are questioning the load, pulling them will prevent any concerns until you have a better idea of what you loaded into them as far as weight.

Personally I will not load a round without either the weight is known or the volume is known(using a dipper).
YMMV of course, but I would pull & recheck at minimum a couple of few to recheck before taking the chance of a bad things happening..
G'Luck!

[NBraun]

I figured that'd be the case, just want'ed to make sure. Thanks!

[JBinMN]

Just as an option...

One thing you could possibly do is weigh the round on the new scale, then pull a load, then weigh the powder on the new scale.

If the powder is within limits, then you could likely just weigh all the rest of the rounds & see if they are the same as the first complete round you weighed, or slightly less. Then you will be able to see if any of the rounds are over the total weight limit of the one that had the powder re-weighed. If you find one or more that is heavier than your "test" pulled round, then you likely have issues & should just pull them all.

An example for this might be that the total completed round you weigh is 200gr., then you weigh the powder after pulling the boolit & it is 13.5 gr. of 2400. Since that would be within the limits of the powder range, then the other rounds, if they weigh 200gr, or slightly less should be loaded with about 13.5 gr of 2400 or less.

If you weighed the rest & they all came in at 200 grains or less, then you are likely to not have an issue with the rest of the lot. The only chance would be that you had one boolit that had a void in it & made it weigh significantly less than the other ones & likely should be pulled as well, but if the average is around the start weight of the first correct round, those should also be in a safe range.

If you weigh the first test round & powder, then any/some of the same rounds from that group weigh more than what you got from weighing out the first round, then pull those as well & start over since it is likely that the weight of the powder in the heavier rounds is also higher.


Doing the above would possibly save you the pulling of all of them, but the Safest bet is pull them all.

Once again, G'Luck!

[Larry Gibson]

Is 15 gr too hot? I've checked load data from Lyman 3rd edition, and the online resource, both of which say 15.5 is the max, and I've checked Alliant which is saying 14.8 is the max for a Speed GDHP.


Too hot would depend on the seating depth of the bullet (not to be confused with an OAL comparison). With a 358156 over 15 gr Alliant 2400 the measured psi (Oehler M43 PBL) runs just over the SAAMI MAP of 35,000 psi (transducer/strain gauge).....usually 35,500 - 37,000 psi. Seating any 158 gr bullet (jacketed or cast) deeper will result in higher psi. Seated out farther will result in slightly less psi.

If you had a S&W M27/28, L frame 6 shot, Ruger Security Six, BH or RH, a Colt Anaconda, a Contender or a Freedom Arms then shooting those shouldn't pose any problem (if they are not over 15 gr). However, I would not shoot them in a M19 as it just isn't strong enough. I don't see any danger in it just that such loads tend to stretch things in M19s (that's why S&W came out with the bit Larger L frame).

Best you "bite the bullet" so to speak and pull the bullets and load them over again. The 13.5 gr load of 2400 is a very good magnum level load with 158 gr cast in M19s.

[NBraun]

I appreciate all the info! I'm just going to pull them, I would rather that, then ruin my revolver.

I do have one other question. I have some 175 gr Kieth bullets i'd like to develop a load for. It looks like the online database has 13gr 2400 being the max charge. Is there a go to load that would be safe in my M19?

[Dale53]

NOTE:
This is something to consider with ALL digital scales:
They must be warmed up before they will register with accuracy. It is suggested that twenty minutes warm up time be the minimum. I have checked this out, personally, with several digital scales. Warm up IS needed!

You might want to check with the manufacturer but I leave mine on all the time. It is ready to go when I need it.

It is a VERY good idea to have a set of test weights to check out your scale before you start loading. I recommend it, highly. It only takes a minute and you are good to go.

FWIW,
Dale53

[megasupermagnum]

NOTE:
This is something to consider with ALL digital scales:
They must be warmed up before they will register with accuracy. It is suggested that twenty minutes warm up time be the minimum. I have checked this out, personally, with several digital scales. Warm up IS needed!

You might want to check with the manufacturer but I leave mine on all the time. It is ready to go when I need it.

It is a VERY good idea to have a set of test weights to check out your scale before you start loading. I recommend it, highly. It only takes a minute and you are good to go.

FWIW,
Dale53

This is true. In the past I used a Cabela's electric scale, and it was all over until it sat for about half an hour. After that it was still very touchy with the reading. It would read until the charge remained constant, then pause. It would only resume once the charge changed about .3 grain. This resulted in many frustrating days until I boxed it up and haven't seen it since, hopefully never to be seen again.

I also have another electric I still use begrudgingly for shotgun, as it is the only one I have that reads over 500 grains. It does the job for weighing shot, and I do use it to sort bullets and slugs sometimes. It only measures to .2 grains. It too is not fully accurate for half an hour. The worst feature is that it automatically shuts off after 60 seconds of no use!

I ALWAYS steer new loaders to a balance/beam scale as they are universally less fussy and more accurate than the electric scales. Even the Lee scale is more accurate and less fussy than the electrics, I use mine to double check my RCBS and it's always spot on. The Lee is not magnetically dampened, and thus is slower to use than other balance scales.

For your first powder scale, go with a beam scale with magnetic dampening. This will serve you well for many years, and is the most user friendly style that I'm aware of. RCBS, Hornady, and Redding would be the most common ones that work well.

Honestly a lot of reloaders would be just as well off loading with the Lee powder scoops. They don't loose calibration, and are a great addition even if you already have a powder measure.

[Larry Gibson]

It's why I do not use a digital scale for weighing powder charges any more.....

[yeahbub]

Pull them! Puuuullll them! (Que up crowds of Roman citizens at the coliseum giving the thumbs down gesture.)

All joking aside, not knowing with certainty the range of error, pulling them is the only good option. Happened to me as well with an electronic scale giving me wandering weights with a ball powder which meters with rock-steady consistency. I went back to a balance beam scale.

As for hot .357's with 2400 and a 158gr, I used to load 16gr under a 158gr. plated bullet in a Rossi '92, which is in the range of 1935 performance levels. I tried some in a GP100, but they're uncomfortable, so I dropped back to 15.5gr and that works in both. Even 16gr wasn't as hot as some 1960's era Remington ammo I still have. That stuff is brutal - and the soft swaged bullets lead like crazy. These days, SAAMI has reduced maximum pressures for the.357 Mag to 35,000 psi.

I'm not familiar with S&W revolvers, so I can't comment on the relative strength/durability of their various models.

[KCSO]

The 15 grain load was an old Elmer load and is way too hot for the model 19. You will shoot it loose in no time with that load. That was my max load years ago for my model 28 and continued use shot that gun loose in a year of shooting. (1000 to 1500 rounds a month 38 nad 357 mixed) Current books range from 13-5 to 14-4 for a max load.

[dverna]

All my pistol rounds are loaded with a powder measure. so scale drift is not a concern.

I use the electronic scale (verified with check weights) or use a beam scale to adjust the measure and then check every few cases until things "settle in". Then one every 50-100 rounds. My RCBS ChargeMaster does not drift, but I may just be lucky.

I added Powder Check dies to the Dillon 1050's and rarely get a "beep" and even then, the loads are in the safe data range as I do not load to maximum.

BTW, check weights are easy to make. You can use anything from shot, to bullets, to coins to cover the range of loads you might encounter. Keeping them in a little partitioned plastic box by the scale works well.

[Winger Ed.]

I had a rather short love affair with a new Hornady scale.

Powder charges didn't look nearly full in the case as I thought they should be.
Dug out the old beam scale and found out it was lying to me.
A 150 grain boolit weighed 150 on the beam, and after it's self calibration cycle,,, it was 185 repeatedly on the digital.

I figured it needed to warm up,,,, but it shuts itself off after a couple minutes of not being used.

[NBraun]

Well good news. New scale came in today. Calibrated it with a 50g weight, and then a 100 g weight. Verified it with several different projectiles.

I should have mentioned, I loaded all of these with a powder drop, so there wasn't so much variation between cases, just the first initial test cases. I pulled 5 bullets down, all were within a grain of 13.5, which is verified with lee dippers.

[georgerkahn]

Here above you've been given some sound advise from knowledgeable persons :) on this site! What I wish to add is the ROOT of your challenge -- to wit, your scales. For what it's worth, at a local university I was employed at until I :) retired, I had taken some large paper clips to a science lab where I clipped them (ruined a set of nail clippers :( ) to now have a set of verified weights. Recently, a load of 5.5 grains seemed NOT to fill a case as much as I recalled -- so I checked weight with my 5.5 gn clip -- and it, too, was almost 2 grains off. I dumped all cases I had filled, re-calibrated the scale -- all it needed -- and was back in business, albeit I RE-checked scale accuracy each and every five cases loaded. Perhaps you have a local school near-by to also make some check weights?
It's tons easier to dump powder, if necessary, BEFORE the bullet's seated.....
BEST!
geo

[NBraun]

That's a good idea, georger. I actually work at a university and have access to very precise scales, so i'll have to do that.

[Ia.redneck]

And NEVER have your cell phone in the same room with an electronic scale.
Learned that the hard way. ;-)

[yeahbub]

And NEVER have your cell phone in the same room with an electronic scale.
Learned that the hard way.

Seriously? I'd not heard that before. It makes sense that there might be some interference from a sufficiently powerful transmitted signal that's close to unshielded circuitry. That happened when I was near a P.A. system while talking on a two-way radio. Embarrassing to hear what I was saying broadcast to the crowd at the fairgrounds. Seems to me a quality scale would be better shielded, but electronics (TV's in particular) from foreign sources are rarely checked and rarely up to snuff.

[Texas by God]

Analog. My preference. 31 year old RCBS (Ohaus) that my wife gave me for our first anniversary.
I have an electronic scale but I caught it lying to me so I put it in the corner for a time out. It's still there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I loaded a bunch of practice rounds which ended up too hot, now I need to pul them. The combination of being given a couple of pounds of powder which was not familiar with -700X, and high lead levels which caused me to purchase j-word boolits resulted in rounds too hot for a steady diet in my Colt’s .45 SAA

[Silver Jack Hammer]

You are doing the right think pulling them. The Model 19 is not the strongest .357. The Model 19 is a very comfortable carry revolver but law enforcement agencies found that the Model 19 did not hold up to regular practice when we switched from wadcutters to full magnum loads.