Your Knowledge Needed 358 Bear

[versa-06]

O.K. Finally seeing some bear activity on the trail cameras, neighbor got a 368 lb male last year close to my cameras. Here's the question, 358 254 gr boolit 1875-1900 fps. (my accurate load so far) Do ya'll think I could get a complete pass thru 125 yds on a 400 #er taking the off side shoulder, or should I try to up the speed before season? Thanks for all input! Jim

[megasupermagnum]

I would sure hope so considering a 255 grain 44 caliber handgun at 1100 fps will.

[Tripplebeards]

Bear are no harder to kill than deer. They just don’t seem to expire as quick so a good size exit hole for blood trailing is mandatory IMO. Your choice will work fine as long as you hit them in the vitals.

[versa-06]

Thanks for the response guys. I've taken several deer using RCBS 35-200 with good success, trying to stay in the vitals only (Meat Eater Yum). But I have read where a lot of bear hunters like to take out a wheel on the oft side to reduce travel opportunities. Jim

[cwlongshot]

I think your bullet and velocity are fine. I would cast from WW quenched. Not allot harder & lil softer OK.

Black Bears kill easy enough, trouble is that there fat layer and thick fur clots blood quickly so you need to anchor them with broken bones. Bear can cover remarkable distances mortally wounded. And tracking a animal with little or no spoor is difficult for most.

Good luck!

CW

[Screwbolts]

IMHO, that load combo should also pass threw length wise. Aim small hit small and have fun.

[Hickory]

A friend of mine who has maybe 40+ bears to his credit has told me, "To kill a bear or any animal, you need to shoot at the kill zone and not the bear. Most people shoot at the animal and give no thought to the kill zone."

[white eagle]

that boolit and velocity will pass through 2 bear
and bury in the dirt[smilie=1:

[Norske]

Remember bear lungs don't extend far behind the front leg like deer lungs do. Actually, the vital zone on a black bear is quite small. If you can get a copy of Craig Boddington's that shows the location of heart, lung, and shoulders of NA big game animals, note how close together those places are on a black bear.

[Tripplebeards]

Remember bear lungs don't extend far behind the front leg like deer lungs do. Actually, the vital zone on a black bear is quite small. If you can get a copy of Craig Boddington's that shows the location of heart, lung, and shoulders of NA big game animals, note how close together those places are on a black bear.

For a broadside aiming point I always try to follow the outline from the back of its front front leg up and aim approx a third of the way up its body. This normally puts you at a heart shot or close to it.

[versa-06]

Good sound advice, Thanks, The biggest concern was penetration with an exit, haven't ever shot anything large bodied with this bullet & velocity. Lots of deer w-boolits hogs w-J-word. Deer fall well to 200 gr cast 2000 fps, but this bear thing is all new to me, we just started getting some in our neck of the woods. Jim

[versa-06]

What is your preferred rifle, & load. & what kind of penetration you have gotten in your experiences?

[waksupi]

I've shot through elk with similar loads, I can't see why it wouldn't go through any bear.

[Tripplebeards]

What is your preferred rifle, & load. & what kind of penetration you have gotten in your experiences?

I’ve shot two with a 300 RUM...way overkill. Complete penetration of course. I had a 2 to 3” exit hole with a full throttle 200 grain nosler partition and I had very, very little blood to follow as it’s fat and hair clogged the huge exit hole. The other bear dropped on the spot using a factory loaded 180 grain swift scirocco (1st generation style that opens quicker and more violent). I also got a complete complete pass through using a 300 FPS crossbow with a Rocky Mountain Gator 100 grain expandable broadhead back in 96’ in Canada. The broad head made a 4” wide slit going in and out like someone stabbed it with a machete. The arrow continued it path and stuck a good 1” into a sapling in back of bear. It was broadside and I shot it right behind the shoulder just above the heart. That bear let out a roar and ran. My arrow had a good amount of blood on it but a ZERO blood trail. My guide and I went looking for it. That bear made it a good 150 yards before expiring. There was a log in his mouth about the size of my arm all chewed up when we found him. Biggest bear I’ve shot. It was 7’6” from nose to its rear foot. The skull was 19 3/16’s of an inch. We never weighed it but my guide guessed over 550’s. It wasn’t fat bear but really long and skinny. My guide told me he must have been a basketball player and not a football player.lol. I still have the skull and rug on my wall.

Back in 2000’ I ran some guys who had dogs. We harvested 13 bear that year. With mine the biggest at approx 250lbs. I watched them get shot with everything from 12 gauge slugs, 30-30’s, & 30-06’s. Not one caliber impressed me. Every bear shot was recovered but dropped out if the tree and ran like they weren't hit after being shot accept for mine and my buddy’s with the 300 RUM. I did hit it in the shoulder using a 180 grain swift scirocco and probably zipped close to its backbone so it believe I hit the CNS. My buddy shot a little 119 pound field dressed bear on opening day with a 180 grain nosier ballistic tip. I forgot that blood! It looked like a horror movie! Blood was pumping out both size of that bear like quitting garden hoses. It was double lunged. It still tried to get up off the ground after it fell from the tree after being shot and doing death moans so he finished it off with another round. I do remember the hunter using the 12 gauge slug left a halfway decent blood trail...so IMO I’d choose a soft alloy that will expand leaving a huge exit if blood trailing is needed. Your bear will die regardless, but it just depends on hard of a tracking job your going to have with no blood. We had a lot of people get drawn that year...2000’. I believe the DNR overdrew that year. I remember everyone filled there tags but all were small...a given when using dogs. That was my first and last bear dog hunt as I wanted to pick and choose my animal over bait in future hunts.

[Dinny]

I'm.on the complete opposite side of the state from you. I'll come and back you up with my .358 loaded with jacketed bullets, but you're loaded well enough already.

Thanks, Dinny

[nagantguy]

As mentioned above bear are not hard to kill but are hard to put down on the spot and very hard to track;never followed a good blood trail on a bear- I’ve killed them dead on the spot with both 06 and .50 cal front stuffed. Break those front shoulders because as also mentioned above bears vital
Zone isn’t very large like deer or elk; have fun and remember they are not armor plated!

[versa-06]

I've been using Tin, 50/50 WW/Pure or WW/Range Scrap w-Quenched, Do ya'll think I should de-temp the nose for more expansion? The meplat on the 254 gr. boolit is much larger. The RCBS 35-200 loads left a pretty good exit on deer even though they weren't de-tempt. Jim

[versa-06]

And 1-more question, Do w-Quenched boolits get softer over long periods of time? I have some older loads that seem to be flattening over time in the tube of my lever guns. Jim

[MT Gianni]

They start to soften, depending on the temps they are in, in 8 or 9 years.

[Tripplebeards]

I’d go 50/50. The softer the better for boolit expansion leaving a bigger exit hole in hopes of a better blood trail if needed. As said above try and break the shoulder.

[Todd N.]

Out here in the West , our bears must be the small country cousins to what you guys hunt back east. The last bear I took was in 2015, weighed 315# field dressed, and fell to a double tap from a 10mm Glock and 200 grain Hornady XTP's. I shot him twice because we were hunting Oregon's Coast Range and I did not want to risk the bear disappearing into the impenetrable rain forest. He staggered 17 feet, fell, and was dead in the time it took my nephew to smoke a cigarette.
After reading this thread I went back through my hunt notes. In almost 40 years I've killed 31 black bear. I used a .270 Winchester, a .35 Whelen, and a .45-70 for 3 of them. All the others were handgun hunts- 10mm, .45 Colt, .41 Mag, .357 Maximum.
EVERYTHING I know and practice about hunting boils down to putting the bullet in the right spot for a humane, fast kill. Bear, like almost all other game species in North America, are not hard to kill.

And to the OP:
Perfect your accuracy load and practice precise shooting with it. Learn where the vitals are on a bear so you can shoot into the vitals EVERY time, from any angle. Quit worrying about making 2 holes- your efforts should go toward making 1 in the right spot. Get to know your weapon and your load so well that you KNOW it will be a good shot, and you will know when NOT to shoot.

Good Luck!

[Tripplebeards]

I ran into a campfire post morning on shooting black bear and thought it was a good read. I have some 265 grain HP Lyman devastator‘s, clear PC and GC, loaded up with 21 grains of H110 that average between 1575 to 1600 ft./s out of my Ruger 77/44. I’m using a 7.5 BH alloy I mixed with 16 to 1 of pure lead and pewter. The alloy folds back and flows nicely imo. I shot three deer last year using alot harder 15.4 alloy in the same gun and boolit about 200 FPS faster. It never expanded but did cause a lot of trauma when I hit bone with the harder alloy. It basically didn’t expand zipping through like a hard cast flat point solid metplate boolit would. Two of the deer ran over 100 yards before they expired and the one drop in its tracks because I hit it in the heart but first shattered the ribs that exploding both lungs. I have a post here on it in the archives. My plan is to switch to the softest alloy that I can shoot at most accurately for a hunting round this year which is my 7.5 alloy in hopes that the soft alloy will expand violently to cause more of an instant shock and quicker dispatch.... I am far past worried about eating up to the hole and trying to track my animal a football field...and then some before recovering it with a well placed heart and lung shot like my deer above did. The recoil is similar to a 223 or a Light 410 load and my 77/44 is lighter than my BB gun. This was my bear load I had loaded up for my buddies kid two years ago but he never saw a black bear to test it on during his season. Worst case scenario is if my alloy is to soft and driven to fast my bullet will stop in the animal transferring 100% instant shock and trauma for a quicker recovery IMO.

Here’s a Lyman devastator with 7.5 alloy loaded at 1600 FPS I recovered from a dirt back stop behind my target at 25 yards. The pedals flowed back and one ended up braking off on a rock. It expanded close to twice it’s diameter. We all know dirt is harder than a deer or bone, but I was still impressed how well it stayed together at that velocity and soft alloy. I believe it was around 180 grains and started at 265. So if I get some fragments and shrapnel making some additional wound channels for a quicker dispatch I’m in!

https://i.imgur.com/0oV8SVp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yaDmlG6.jpg


I plan on finding out this year if softer is better. After my experience last year
I won’t hunt with “hard” alloys anymore.


Here the article I read this morning on hollow points out of a 44 magnum on blackbear versus hard cast. Sounds like they were too hunters that had quite a bit of experience using both inside the hard cast zipped right through their bare and ran like they weren’t hit just like my dear did last year versus using a soft hollow point was dropping most of them on the spot. Gungeek is who I’m referring to...


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2390856/1

[Tripplebeards]

Here’s a good shot placement video I found today for blackbear...

https://youtu.be/hMuKIs4WUKM

I don’t agree with the center mass shot showing unless you want to shoot a bear in the guts and never find it. I would rather aim for the shoulder on the opposite side... Or both before I would center mass a bear.

[Prodigal Son]

Should work just fine if you do your part! They need to be drt and no tracking to make a good hunt or real hunt!

[versa-06]

This is some GOOOOOD Info! Just had a real eye opening experience during a muzzleloader hunt. 6" Spike, Bullet entrance behind right shoulder, exit in front of left shoulder,deer ran well over 200 yards around to the back side of a very steep ridge. There was blood everywhere! The bullet was a Barnes 300 gr. HP, Huge Holes, Only the second time I've ever seen this far of a smack & dash after a good hit, I think I like the soft mix & a complete pass thru just in case it happens again. Bears are known to do this from what I have read. Thanks for all of your input! Jim

[versa-06]

P.S. Still haven't seen a bear but got photo's. Jim

[waksupi]

This is some GOOOOOD Info! Just had a real eye opening experience during a muzzleloader hunt. 6" Spike, Bullet entrance behind right shoulder, exit in front of left shoulder,deer ran well over 200 yards around to the back side of a very steep ridge. There was blood everywhere! The bullet was a Barnes 300 gr. HP, Huge Holes, Only the second time I've ever seen this far of a smack & dash after a good hit, I think I like the soft mix & a complete pass thru just in case it happens again. Bears are known to do this from what I have read. Thanks for all of your input! Jim

The wound channel was too big, they don't bleed out efficiently with big holes.