Powder Measure Education

[darne]

I have searched and read what seems like a hundred threads on powder measures for Black Powder cartridge loading and I can't find what I think is a straight answer. I was into muzzleloading in the 1970's and 80's and am familiar with loading black powder for that application. I am loading 45 Colt for a New Service Target 455 Eley re chambered to 45 Colt with Metford rifling. I made dippers from 8mm Mauser brass for test loads. I'm trying to figure out what to use for "production" powder charging if the FFFG is successful. "Production" for me is a Bonanza CO-AX press, so not what others may mean, but 500 rounds with the dipper is not appealing. Depending on the accuracy of the drops I suspect I'll be throwing and trickling up.

I am not concerned with static electricity as I have grounded my measures. I have two measures set up on my bench, a Redding #3 I've had since the late '70's and Herters shotshell powder and shot measure. When loading shotshells I don't use the bars on my MECS. I measure the powder with the Redding and the shot with the Herters.

I AM concerned with iron on iron detonation potential.

In my searches some folks are saying the Redding will be safe. Others are in the brass rotor group. Still others are in the slide tube group, but it looks like those are brass on iron. So, here are the specific questions: Do I need to be concerned about iron on iron detonation with the Redding? What is the difference between a Lyman 55 and a Classic 55 Black Powder measure? I've checked the parts lists and the rotors, body and powder hoppers have the same part numbers. Is it just the metal powder hopper? I haven't called them but it appears the hopper is the only difference in the Harrell's. RCBS has a brass rotor. The discontinued Hornady had a brass rotor. The Belding and Mull gets a lot of praise but it looks clunky to me. The Ideal #5 gets praise. What's the difference in the #5 and the 55.

Sorry for the long rambling post. Some folks want a lot of detail. What am I missing? Is iron on iron a real concern? Are brass rotors the way to go?

Any enlightenment will be greatly appreciated,

Thanks,

Dan

[country gent]

Stay away from plastics as much as possible, Hoppers drums adjusters. All of the BP rated measures I have seen were all metal construction. I have a lyman BP rated measure that has the steel cast drum and brass slides. I believe harrels made a bp rated that basically replaced to plastic powder bottle with an aluminum hopper. A very good accurate measure that's actualy from the period is the Belding and Mull, these were originally made for Bp and early smokeless. They do very well with Black powder and are all metal except for the small glass window.
A lot claim volume is more important than actual weight with black powder. so your dippers may be fine. A charge that leaves no airspace and proper compression should work well.

Your redding measure should be fine and work well, If your concerned replace the plastic hopper tube with a piece of brass tube from on line metals. THe issue I see with the redding is that you will want to disassemble and clean it after use so powder dust and contamination dosnt cause undo rust and or corrosion

[BrentD]

I have used Reddings for 25 yrs or more for black. I do not worry one whit about plastics and have installed an oversized plastic hopper using an aluminum adapter on one of mine. They are fabulous.

I have bought and sold Lyman 55s twice. As far as I am concerned, they are the worst measure out there. Belding and Mull measures are revered by some, but I did nto find them handy, though they worked okay, sort of.

[rfd]

well .... aside from the fact that exhaustive static electricity testing has been done with black powder, and nary an episode to report back, i know that powder measure plastic hoppers will not detonate bp. anyone who feels differently can just pay the added bucks and get a "proper" bp measure, if a measure is required for measuring bp. i don't measure a bp charge, i weigh it. to each their own, it's all good.

i'll add - harrell's powder measures are nothing short of *awesome*, but they sure ain't cheap. i use one for handgun cartridges, it's amazingly accurate.

[Kraschenbirn]

It's been nearly 30 years since I shot any BP in a handgun, however back when I did, I used an old gray Lyman 55 with a brass drum/slide and a plexiglass hopper without any problem(s). Can't vouch for the provenance of the brass/plex mix 'cause it was well-used when I bought at a small gunshow over along the Indiana state line. Wiping the plastic hopper, inside and out, with a dryer softener sheet before filling seemed to take care of any static build-up.

Something like a Lyman 55 (or your Redding) is, undoubtedly, the best selection for small volume charges but, for larger volumes, the Belding & Mull is hard to beat. Mine is another 'oldie' rescued from a box of 'junk' gun parts/reloading stuff at a rural estate auction. A thorough cleaning, a few replacement screws, a new window for the powder chamber, and it was good to go...with practice, drops even coarsest stick powders +/- .1 grain.

Bill

[ian45662]

Your standard smokeless powder measure is perfectly safe for black powder. I use a hornady dispenser and an rcbs charge master for all my black powder loads. Have put through a bunch of powder through both of them. Black powder even comes in plastic cans.


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[Lead pot]

This question comes up quite often and you will get the answers from people that use a drop to be the best no matter what the brand is. They all in my opinion, all have their fault in one way or another.
I been putting black powder in cases since the mid 50's and I started by just using the case and dipping it in a pan full of powder and scraping off the top. then I saw some shotgun loading tools that had dippers so I made some from cases and soldered a bronze brazing rod on the case and I used that till into the 60's worked just fine for my rolling soup cans. My first powder drop was a Redfield and I still use it from time to time. It's sitting in the back ground behind the swage presses. Then came the Lyman the orange colored one and I still use it as well as the 55. All of those powder drops served me well but they need some help dropping a precise drop of powder. I solved this by mounting a small fan with bladed cut off to make it vibrate so it will settle the powder in the drum when the lever is up for a short spell and this kept the weight right on or not more then 2/10's off. And I still use the 55 if I just want to load some rounds for rifles I don't shoot much and I just want to take a few rounds to the range splitting bowling pins. But I don't like to use the drum type drops because some will crunch the powder into dust when I lower the lever. But another drop back with a iron drum drop you berate use it regularly or the rust will bind it up and you will be using steel wool cleaning them.
I have never used a B&M but I have seen them and they look like a fine piece of equipment.
But for several years now I wave been using the electronic PD's, yes they say not for black powder and it might be good advice and maybe someday I will smoke up the loading room using them but 4 have died on my from over use I guess :) because for several years I have gone through 4 to 5 plus cases of powder each year except for the last three years less then three cases and 1 1/2 cases last year. Been having old age problems catching up with me. :) My last PD has been a Frankfort Arsenal and it has been running flawless. Like I said maybe someday It will give me a surprise :)

249994

[Walks]

My Dad used a Lyman 55 with a Brass hopper back in the 1950's-60's, think He installed the brass hopper Himself. Used a 3 foot drop tube too.

When I started loading BP about 30+yrs ago, I used dippers made from cut down cartridge cases, trial & error until I got it right. Also got a 3 foot aluminum 3/8" drop tube flared at both ends.

Bought a Lyman 55 Classic when they came out. Mine had a BRASS Hopper and 2 drop tubes totaling 2 feet. Only difference was the hopper and longer metal drop tubes. Worked Great. Still have the cut down .45-70 case I used for Win AA12 BP, up on a shelf above the bench.

I have used vibration to load, pain in the neck.

[Lead pot]

Walks I don't vibrate the case with the powder in it. I have a vibration mounted on the shelf the powder drop is mounted on. I just lift the handle again after I make a drop and let it settle in the powder drop while I put the wad in and compress it by this time the rotor is full and settled and it will drop right on more then it's off by 1/10 th.

[Walks]

I just tap the handle 3 times to fill the rotor and twice to empty it. Same as I do for smokeless. I knew one guy who would hold a case of BP on top of his running tumbler with his fingers for a count of 10.

[Toymaker]

Several years ago there was an article in the NMLRA's magazine MuzzleBlasts about volume versus weight measurements of black powder. The experiment pretty much proved that weighed charges provided a lower standard deviation and greater accuracy as ranges increased. However, the article was quick to point out that "back in the day" a shooter/hunter didn't go around carrying a scale and so volume became the accepted method of measuring a black powder charge. It also gave references to some "issues" that arose when volume measurements were initially used to measure the new fangled smokeless powders. The article also pointed out that weight does not equal volume and visa versa AND which ever method is used to develop the load for the rifle should be the method consistently used.

I've developed two loads for several of my rifles. One is a volume charge and the other is a weighed charge. Just because I wanted to see for myself …. I'm from Missouri.

[BPCS]

I've shot Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette for many years, and have always used the Belding & Mull powder measure. I have found it to be very accurate when metering powder. I recently purchased a second one that had both the small and large micrometer powder drop tubes that came with it. This one was only used by its former owner for smokeless powder. I decided to try it using smokeless powder. I was surprised at its accuracy and how well it metered H4350 powder. Both of mine have the brass hopper.

[WBH]

I have taken to using my Belding & Mull exclusively for BP as well. I collected them for a while and now have 6 of them. They are old school,but never let me down. The chamber design takes the place of all the baffles in other designs. I havent used my Lyman BP measure in ages.
Always use a 2' brass drop tube after.

[ELFEGO BACA]

The first powder measure I bought was an orange Lyman 55.
That was in the early 60s.
The next two were made differently - no screw in clear cylinder.
The last one was a 55 that appeared older than the one I bought in the 60s.
I’ve been using my original Lyman for the past 15 years for black powder cartridges.
No problems.
P
Black powder is now sold in plastic containers.

[Keith]

This was brought up on the Shiloh forum and Lee got a couple of good mentions. They have a brass drum and special wiper that wont crush the grains. I was thinking of getting one. All I am using now is a brass muzzle loader one onto a scale and trickle up. The Lee 90699 looked OK