Are these hulls OK for slugs?

[Keith]

Reading threads on fired hulls I have never seen mentioned these.
The black is Winchester ST and the red is Diana target 28. I guess here in Oz we have different ones.
I can get these as range pickups so I cut them in half. Both seem the same with the plastic base. I think they have straight sides so should be OK for the Federal 12S3 wads I have.
If these look OK, then any cheap brand of range pickup that when cut look the same should be OK as well.
Is this thinking all right?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48931976438_b3c7b2ed7c_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hxXaQb)shotshell cut (https://flic.kr/p/2hxXaQb) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]

I will be loading the Lyman 525 into these and have been reading about tapered hulls with tapered wads etc but these look to fit the Federal wads OK.

[dsh1106]

I cant tell for sure with the burrs, but these appear to straight wall hulls.

Scott

[longbow]

This may be of some use:

https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/12-ga-2-75-hull-volumes/

Not absolutely positive as there seems to be a bit of black magic when it comes to reloading shotshells but as long as the volume is the same or close and the hull is either straight walled or tapered that seems to be the biggest distinction.

I have used several different straight walled hulls for same or similar slug loads using loading manual data. Some have thicker or thinner base wad so wad column may need to be adjusted for crimp.

When it comes to tapered hulls like Win AA not only do they taper so that affects wad choice but they have a shaped "combustion chamber" and generally smaller volume than straight walled hulls. Powder charges and payload have to be adjusted to suit.

Without pressure testing equipment it is hard to say what effect the smaller volume and shaped "combustion chamber" have with regards to pressure but my understanding is that the shape does affect pressure as in higher pressure for everything else equal. It makes sense that there may be smaller volume so a given wad column may not fit but shorter wad should take care of that but I don't think it is quite that simple or straight forward.

Every manual I have says not to substitute any components and they say that for a reason. I try to find recipes for a given hull and primer but don't worry too much about the wad and as long as the payload is same weight I don't worry about that. Primers can for sure affect pressure significantly... just because it is a 209 primer does not mean it has the same effect and there are "hot" and "mild" primers depending on brand. My understanding is that hull selection can also affect pressure.

Per what Scott said, they look like straight walled hulls to me as well. If so then I'd used load recipes for straight walled hulls like Fiocchi, Federal, Cheddite or similar and check total fill volume for crimp. If the wad column is too short you can add nitro card wad(s) under the gas seal or inside the shotcup to raise the shot. If the wad column is too long then you need to find a wad with shorter cushion leg.

I would not use the same load in a tapered hull.

Also, if you look at the Lee shotshell loading data they simply separate tapered hulls and straight walled hulls for their load data. They don't identify brands. That data is very general and relatively low pressure but it works. Slug load recipes tend to push velocities and pressures so you don't want to be doing anything (substituting) that could raise pressure.

You can load slugs of equal weight to shot using birdshot load data ~ so 1 oz. birdshot can be substituted with 1 oz. slug, 1 1/8 oz. birdshot can be substituted by 1 1/8 oz. slug, etc. They won't be high performance slug loads but they will be safe.

So, the short story is that I would use them and load according to a loading manual recipe for the same type of hull (looks like straight walled) and using same powder charge and primer then see how the payload fits. If using a slug recipe maybe drop the powder charge by 10% or so to try the load out. For birdshot load recipes with slug substituted I'd use the full powder charge.

You probably know that shotshell reloading is not like metallic cartridge reloading in that there are no real reliable pressure signs and it is very difficult to "work up" a load as one can do with metallic cartridge loading. Once definite pressure sign for shotshells is sticky extraction. If you are getting sticky extraction you are well over SAAMI pressures. DO NOT SHOOT ANY MORE OF THOSE! If you are using a loading manual recipe and substituting slug for birdshot or substituting just a wad it is unlikely you will run into high pressures. Just saying... if you get sticky extraction STOP SHOOTING!

Depending on slug type you may have to choose a shotcup to fit or use nitro card wads to set wad column height for crimping.

For full bore slugs I use a plastic gas seal then hard card and nitro card wads to set the slug at correct height for crimp. No plastic wad with cushion leg.

For wad slugs (like Lee) a deep shotcup may have to have petals trimmed or slug raised by nitro card wads and you may need to use nitro card wads under the gas seal to raise the shotcup to crimp height.

Do a search for SuperBlazingSabot (Ajay Maden)... in fact you'll likely find everything here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!

Ajay has posted lots on hull volumes, slug/wad fits and many other useful bits of info.

Okay, too many words again (I ramble)

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

Both of those hulls look like a Rio or Cheddite hull to me. Look at the head, if there are stars, it is a Cheddite. I would have no problem using data for either Rio or Cheddite hulls with what you have there. Just be aware that american primers may not fit. You will have to try to know for sure. Do not swap shotgun primers willy nilly, they can make a big difference.

Edit: I just looked up Diana ammo https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/diana-2-3-4-12-gauge-8-shot-shells-25-rounds?a=511206

The shells in the picture of that link are Cheddite hulls. It is likely what you have are all Cheddite hulls. You will need a European 209 primer. You will find most data for a Cheddite 209 primer, although I'm sure you will find some for a Fiocchi 209 as well. You can sometimes get away with a Winchester 209, and is a safe swap, however, they are often too loose a fit in a Cheddite hull.

Also, yes they will work well for slugs and with the Federal 12S3 wad.

[Cast_outlaw]

They should be ok just don’t load them to hot

[Keith]

OK. Thanks for all the replies. I now know what you mean by cheddite hulls. I have others that look the sam so can cut them and I guess if the base wad looks the same as these two I am OK.
This shotgun loading is a new experience, but I only want to load for that Lyman pellet type slug. I have Unique and AP70. It seems both those are OK.