Cast 480 ruger annoyance!

[Mica_Hiebert]

So I ran into a ton of problems on my first attempt to load cast for my 480 ruger. Using lee dies I expand them to accept the cast bullet but the seating die irons the case bell back out as soon as the case enters the die so it shaves the bullet as its being seated. It also causes a large enough bulge the rounds wont chamber. Also the seating stem rounds the corners of the flat nose. I just ordered a set of 500 s&w die and im going to file the seating plug flat and try to use that as a seating die then crimp with the 480 die. Im still a little concerned about the case bulge and not being able to chamber it. My other calibers I have a lee factory crimp die with the carbide sizer ring for final sizing but they dont offer it in 480 ruger. Any advise for an idiot fumbling through this? Or better dies that work for cast in this round?

[44magLeo]

I have no experience with the 480. I have cast for several other revolvers.
I assume you slugged the barrel and chamber mouths. I also assume you sized the bullets to match the chamber mouths.
If not perhaps your bullets are a bit to big. Thus the bulge. Or the case neck walls a bit thick. Either can cause the bulge.
I also assume you used a reamer to remove burrs on the case mouth. This also gives the inside of case mouth a slight taper.
I might try calling Lee and telling them your issues and seeing if they might have a better answer.
Other than that I'm outta guesses.
Leo

[Mica_Hiebert]

My bullets are a little on the large side. I just ordered a custom bullet sizer from lee as well. I sent them a message more or less describing everything and out of all of the issues I em having they only touched on the seating stem and told me to fill the seating plug nose with epoxy. That doesnt help me if the case bell is being closed before the bullet is seated.

[gnostic]

It sounds like your seating die is too low, back it off a couple turns, or whatever it takes. And, the stem isn't low enough, turn it down some. You're beginning to crimp before the bullet is properly seated. The damage to the bullet may be resolved when the seating die is properly adjusted. If your bullet is more than 2K too large, you'll have issues with chambering. I've tried to run bullets that were .360 in my .357's and none of them would chamber a round with a bullet larger than .358....

[Mica_Hiebert]

It sounds like your seating die is too low, back it off a couple turns, or whatever it takes. And, the stem isn't low enough, turn it down some. You're beginning to crimp before the bullet is properly seated. The damage to the bullet may be resolved when the seating die is properly adjusted....

Tried running die out as far as I could and bottoming out the seating stem. It still closes the case mouth too much to seat the bullet without shaving it.

[gnostic]

How large is the bullet?

[Wheelguns 1961]

I load for the 480 ruger. What gun are you shooting them in? I size mine to .4775. The throats on my blackhawk are a tight .478”.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Thier running about .479 push fit through the throats. Just ordered a .477 sizer. But say 8 week lead time.

[Three44s]

480 loader and caster here.

I would look at your inside case mouth chamfering and how much you are belling.

Also are you casting a plain base boolit or a gas check slug.

With chamfering I have the traditional 45 degree Wilson tool and a VLD 30 degree tool. I sometimes use both to aid in creating a better transition for bullet entry.

You may need to bell a bit more. Sometimes I bell with more than one die to again aid in transition of the boolit base entering the case mouth. I do not see the Lyman M die listed for the 480. That is a let down as it is a real friend for boolit casters but NOE makes M type punches that fit the Lee universal belling die and I would suggest getting one if this problem persists.

Plain base boolit castings can have a bit of roughness at their edge. I have in some circumstances taken a sharp knife and cut around the base ever so gently to create a sort of mini bevel.

I do not have a Lee mold for the 480. Mine are the RCBS and one from Mihec.

The sizer you ordered should help. Mine is an RCBS .476” as I recall.

The boolit nose deformation might be remedied with a bit of hot glue to partially fill in the nose punch cavity.

Hang in there! The 480 is a great round!

It is a real lead supply eater though, a boolit trap would be your friend.

The magnum shotgun powder Hodgdon’s HS6 is a real great number for a midrange field in all magnum revolver cartridges and the 480 is no exception.

Three44s

[str8wal]

Just ordered a .477 sizer.

Have you slugged the barrel?

[DougGuy]

Have you slugged the barrel?

Most of these bores run .477" I size cylinder throats to a light drag fit on a .478" pin gage, many of the 480 cylinders I get in for reaming the sharp step out of them are already .478" and unusually consistent for Ruger. .4775" is a good size for the .480" throats, .480" is a good size for throats after I hone them since they finish just shy of .4785" but don't load too many ahead of when you are going to shoot them, these long cast boolits tend to grow a LOT as they sit and age harden, so even with a .477" sizer, in 3 months of shelf life, they may be well in excess of .478" and won't want to chamber.

OP, once you get your sizing sorted, if you run into rings in the chamber, I ream the 45 degree step (which is the cause) to a 6 degree 30min chamfer which cures it.

[Wheelguns 1961]

I got a .476 lee push through sizing die from ebay and it wouldn’t take a .474 pin gauge. I had to hone it out to what I needed. I can attest to the fine work that Doug does on the 480’cylinders. He beveled the transition in mine and it works great with cast now.

[DougGuy]

This is how I ream and hone the 480 Ruger cylinder for shooting cast. If the throats aren't already .480" I hone them to .480" ~ .4802" and I ream the 45 degree step at the end of the chamber into a more conventional 6 degree 30min chamfer like a typical magnum revolver cylinder would have. Normally the factory step in there can cut rings of lead when shooting cast, chamfering this into a smoother transition cures the problem.

Stock cylinder on left showing 45 degree step, same cylinder on right after reaming and honing:

https://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/480%20Ruger%20Joined_zpsirozovxz.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/480%20Ruger%20Joined_zpsirozovxz.jpg.html)

[pworley1]

Check the inside diameter of your die. It may be the wrong one. I load cast in 480 for my redhawk with lee dies and have no issues. I load both the lee bullet and the rcbs bullet and have no problem with seating and crimping with one pull. I use a 477 size die.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Ok so I recieved my 500 s&w seating die today I filled the seating plug with hot glue. Loaded one round with it and then crimped it with the 480 die. Was able to seat the bullet without shaving (still a little rounding of the nose) and it chambers in 3 of the 6 so will probably work once I get my bullet sizer from lee. Hopefully it comes sooner than the 8 weeks they state on their web site. If it doesnt at that point then shes going to head off to doug for some chamber work. Probably going to make a new flat seating plug on my brother-in-laws lathe the 500 seating plug is hollowed out and cant just file it flat like I was hoping.

And for those suggesting a M die I was getting a good enough case bell to accept the bullet with the lee expander but the case bell would close back up at the mouth of the 480 seating die.

[Wheelguns 1961]

The purpose of an m-die is to expand the case so it doesn’t swage down your bullet. If you size your bullets to your throat size, then seat them in a case that has not been properly expanded, the case will squeeze down the size of the bullet, and you up with a smaller than throat size bullet. I use a lee universal expander die, with a noe insert to expand to the proper size.

You might look on ebay for a lee sizing die. That is where I found mine. You never know you might get lucky.

[sparkyv]

My other calibers I have a lee factory crimp die with the carbide sizer ring for final sizing but they dont offer it in 480 ruger.

Lee has it -> https://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-480-rug.html

[Mica_Hiebert]

Lee has it -> https://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-480-rug.html

Its a collet crimp die without the sizing ring. Ordered it already and was bummed. When I looked at their custom order page they say they cant make one for 480 ruger. Too long?

[megasupermagnum]

Its a collet crimp die without the sizing ring. Ordered it already and was bummed. When I looked at their custom order page they say they cant make one for 480 ruger. Too long?

Can you be more specific on the case bulge? The Lee carbide crimp die is not the solution that that problem. The Collet crimp die is the bees knees.

If the bulge is the bullet expanding the case too much to chamber, then you really only have one option. Size the bullets smaller.

If the bulge is at the crimp, you are over crimping. You can crimp less, or use the collet crimp die, which does not have this problem.

If the bulge is below the bullet, and forms when you seat the bullet, you have other problems that I have not ran into myself. Neck tension would have to be far too tight for this to happen, and the brass would certainly be sizing the bullet down with such a tight fit.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Its a bulge from the bullet and not the crimp. I have a bullet sizer coming. Just have to wait as its a custom size.

[DougGuy]

Avoid the carbide ring FCD. The one you want is the collet style FCD. However when you get it stock from Lee, the crimp band is too wide and it sits too high on the case mouth and actually crimps the boolit in front of the case mouth. WTH? Who needs the boolit crimped we are trying to size boolits to a specific size, not swage them down (which the carbide FCD does a very good job of), so the collet needs to be machined to narrow the crimp band to .050" or so, and drop it to just below the case mouth for it to work the best it can work. I do a good enough number of these mods, here is a thread showing how I improve the collet style FCD: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

[megasupermagnum]

For what it's worth, I've used the carbide crimp die in many cases with no problems. The big issue as DougGuy says is if it sizes down the bullet. Specifically, brass springs back more than lead. If the carbide crimp die does size the bullet down, it will also ruin your neck tension.

A bullet sizer should fix your problem.

[pmer]

One simple thing to try is doing the seating and crimping in two separate steps. Back the die out a couple turns then move the stem down till it seats the bullet over the crimp groove. Then back the stem way out and adjust the die down for the correct crimp.

[Mica_Hiebert]

One simple thing to try is doing the seating and crimping in two separate steps. Back the die out a couple turns then move the stem down till it seats the bullet over the crimp groove. Then back the stem way out and adjust the die down for the correct crimp.

Already doing that, as of now I am actually seating with a 500s&w die then crimp with the 480 die. But still probably a 1-2 thousands fat, ive got it down to chambering in 3 of the 6 chambers. I can push them into the other 3 but hard to extract and I dont want stuck cases if I try to fire them like that. I will probably be good to go once I get my bullet sizer.

[onelight]

my carbide factory crimp dies for revolvers do not even touch the case unless it is way out of spec. fired un-sized cases will drop in past the carbide ring , but I have no experience with them in .480 .
Could the floating crimp ring in the die be in upside down?

[Mica_Hiebert]

Lee sizer showed up today. Bullets sized to .477 are a friction fit to the chamber throats can push them through with a pencil, also the bullet sizing ram works as a flat seating plug in the 500 die. Loaded a test round and it fits in all 6 chambers. Should work for what I need to do. Thanks everyone for helping me think my way through this one.

[pjh421]

Edit: whoops, got here late to the party.

So your boolits fit your throats. That's most of the battle. If unscrewing the seater body to raise the crimp shoulder out of the way is not getting the job done it sounds like that die needs to be adjusted for more slop using a lathe. That or maybe have Lee adjust it for you. My SRH throats like .476" boolits with a gas check. I just have one mould for this caliber. Its Miha's 400 grain from a group buy. The 4 die set from Hornady works like a charm. Alternatively you could make a lead lap from a cast boolit with a long screw sunk into its base, coat it with some valve grinding compound and go to town on the minor diameter of that seater die. Sounds like you don't need to remove much.

Paul

[Mica_Hiebert]

I found a set of rcbs dies I had retired as the sizing die leaves a big scratch in the case but I chucked up the seating stem in my brother inlaws lathe and turned it into a flat seating stem. Im going to try that die when I get a chance to hit the loading bench again.