Elk hunting in Idaho.

[Idaho45guy]

I'm a Washington resident and refuse to pay the $571.50 to shoot an elk in Idaho. So, I just go hunting with my dad and brother, both Idaho residents, and do everything but carry a rifle and pull the trigger.

I get the full experience of hunting and enjoying nature, but without the pain of spending that much money for the dwindling chances of bagging an elk. Besides, I get all the meat I need from my dad and brother.

Went out last week for four days in the woods and had a blast. Just no elk.

Didn't see a single elk and very little sign. Saw very little deer as well. Saw a bull moose and had a wolf run by in deep timber about 30 yards away. It was so fast and quiet that I didn't even have time to clear leather. Creepy.

We were 15 miles off the paved road and about 25 miles from the nearest town, so we were fairly deep into the woods. Still saw quite a few hunters and the ones we talked to hadn't seen a single elk either. Most blamed it on the wolves.

Dad and brother stayed in camp for another few days, so hopefully their luck turns. On my way back to the paved road, I passed 13 hunting camps and not a single one had anything hanging.

But, the weather was decent but a little cold; got into the teens at night and 40's during the day. Little snow the first night, but then sunny the next few days.

Beautiful scenery everywhere. Blessed to live an hour away from such amazing wilderness.

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[koger]

Thanks for taking us along.

[DW475]

Beautiful country up in Northern Idaho. No luck on the elk during archery season, all sign pointed toward a late rut this year in our area.

[sixshot]

In a lot of that country you're just camping, not hunting because of the wolves. It used to be great elk hunting before they were brought in but they will never recover in our lifetime, you can bet on it.

The tree huggers got the Indians to buy into bringing back the wolves & they did, now go ask any Indian if he would rather hear a wolf howl or eat an elk.........

Dick

[Idaho45guy]

In a lot of that country you're just camping, not hunting because of the wolves. It used to be great elk hunting before they were brought in but they will never recover in our lifetime, you can bet on it.

The tree huggers got the Indians to buy into bringing back the wolves & they did, now go ask any Indian if he would rather hear a wolf howl or eat an elk.........

Dick

Exactly! Looked up the stats for unit 8A last year and there was only an 18% success rate for elk hunters.

[Gofaaast]

Elk camp is one of my favorite times each year as well. We drew our good area in northern CO this year. A couple ranchers did say they are starting to see wolves in the NW CO area. The fellows that I am blessed to hunt with are die hard archery hunters so that’s what we do. I love bow hunting, but my family enjoys the meat and not the extra adrenaline bow hunting provides. I was getting a little down after the first week. Several encounters when a muzzleloader tag would have put meat on the table. The elk were in stealth mode most days. I was successful on day 10 taking a young 5x5. Will take a year off waiting to draw the area we hunted this year. Non-res tags are just to expensive for the low population of elk in our OTC area as voted by the non residents in our camp. It won’t seem right not being in the mtns. I can take part in muzzleloader season for deer at home.

[NyFirefighter357]

Thanks for sharing, I was only on a western hunt once many years ago it was for mulies but we did see many elk.
I just listened to a very interesting show about wolves and the effect on game & people. It was an interview with Dr. Valerius Geist..."by many estimations the most important conservationist in the last 50 years. Dr. Geist is the original author of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and a lifelong devotee to studying wildlife. He is a specialist in zoology, biology, and has studied elk, moose, bighorn sheep, and other wild ungulates intensely over the years."

I also found some written articles & interviews with him:

https://www.idahoforwildlife.com/Website%20articles/Dr%20Geist/When%20ignorance%20is%20bliss.html

https://www.outdoorhub.com/opinions/2013/08/14/the-future-of-north-american-wolves-interview-with-dr-valerius-geist/

http://thehuntingcollective.libsyn.com/ep-79-predator-pits-riding-moose-and-fighting-for-the-north-american-model-with-dr-valerius-geist

During my academic career and four years into retirement I thought of wolves as harmless, echoing the words of many North American colleagues. I was wrong!”

He changed his mind when he retired to Vancouver Island in 1995, where he and his wife found themselves living with wolves as neighbors. He relayed some of his first-hand experience with them to me:

The meadows and forests near our home contained about 120 blacktail deer and half a dozen large male black bears. In winter came some 60 to 80 trumpeter swans, large flocks of Canada geese, widgeons, mallards, and green-winged teal. Pheasants and ruffed grouse were not uncommon. In the fall of 1995 I saw one track of a lone wolf. Then in January 1999 my son and I tracked a pair of wolves in the snow. A pack arrived that summer. Within three months not a deer was to be seen, or tracked, in these meadows–even during the rut. We saw deer at night huddling against barns and houses, where deer had not been seen previously. For the first time deer moved into our garden and around our house. The damage to our fruit trees and roses skyrocketed. The trumpeter swans left. The tame geese and ducks avoided the outer meadows and lived only close to the barns. Pheasants and ruffed grouse vanished. The landscape looked empty, as if vacuumed of wildlife.

Eventually the wolves became even more of a problem. Geist explains: “These wolves progressively became bolder, seeking out human habitation, killing and maiming pets and livestock, and inspecting and confronting humans. No attacks on humans materialized by ‘our’ wolves after they began approaching us, for they were shot. A predator control officer trapped others.”

After the first “misbehavin’ pack” was eliminated, a second one moved into the area a couple years later, and a similar pattern unfolded. Geist found the behavior of both packs followed a similar seven-stage habituation pattern when wild food runs out and they are close to people.

Within the pack’s territory prey becomes scarce not only due to increased predation on native prey animals, but also by the prey evacuating home ranges en masse. Wolves increasingly visit garbage dumps at night.
Wolves in search of food begin to approach human habitations at night. Their presence is announced by frequent and loud barking of farm dogs.
The wolves appear in daylight and at some distance observe people doing their daily chores.
Small-bodied livestock and pets are attacked close to buildings, even during the day. The wolves preferentially pick on dogs and follow them right up to the verandas of homes. People out with dogs find themselves defending their dogs against wolves.
The wolves explore large livestock, leading to docked tails, slit ears, and hocks. Livestock may bolt through fences running for safety. Wolves become more brazen and cattle or horses may be killed close to houses and barns. Wolves may follow riders and surround them. They may mount verandas and look into windows.
Wolves turn their attention to people and approach, initially merely examining them closely. They may make hesitant, almost playful attacks, biting and tearing clothing, nipping at limbs and torso. They withdraw when confronted. They defend kills by moving towards people and growling and barking at them from 10 to 20 paces away.
Wolves attack people. These initial attacks are clumsy, as the wolves have not yet learned how to take down the new prey efficiently. Persons attacked can often escape because of the clumsiness of the attacks. A mature, courageous man may beat off or strangle an attacking wolf. However, against a wolf pack there is no defense.

Val met Dr. Robert Timm at the University of California at Davis, who has been studying coyotes targeting children in urban parks that act in virtually the same manner.

Geist’s habituation model has been translated into Swedish, Finnish, and German. It has become known in Finland as “Seven Steps to Heaven.”

“A century ago North America’s wildlife was largely decimated and that it took a lot of effort to bring wildlife back. When predators are scarce, and herbivores are abundant, wolves are well-fed. Consequently they are very large in body size, but also very shy of people. Wolves are seen rarely under such conditions, fostering the romantic image of wolves prevalent in North America today. However, when herbivore numbers decline while wolf numbers rise, we expect wolves to disperse and begin exploring for new prey. That’s when trouble begins,” Geist says.

Former Alaska wildlife biologist Mark McNay and others have established that there have been wolf attacks on people in Canada, historical and recent. On November 8, 2005, a 22-year-old geological engineering student at the University of Waterloo, Kenton Joel Carnegie, was killed by four wolves at Points North Landing in northern Saskatchewan. This was the first direct human fatality from a healthy wolf attack in North America in recent times to receive an investigation. Geist was an expert witness in the inquisition. Val says that the four wolves that attacked Carnegie had long been observed by others, were garbage-fed, and four days earlier attacked two employees of the camp who beat back the wolves.

Candice Berner, a 32-year-old school teacher, was killed on March 8, 2010 by wolves in the village of Chignik Lake on the Alaska Peninsula. These wolves were also habituated to garbage.

Val says that wolves learn differently than dogs:

They learn by observing, and they also are insight learners. They can solve problems by observing, such as how to unlock a gate. In some studies of captive wolves researchers have found that wolves and coyotes not only learn to open their own cages, but those of others. With these intelligence traits wolves also develop an ability to assess the vulnerability of prey. For example, the sight of a human, walking boldly and carrying a firearm, will give them enough information to know that the potential prey is not vulnerable.

How did North American scientists ever conclude that wolves were no threat to people? Geist responds:

They were unaware that starting in the 1800s, tens of thousands of trappers in Canada and Alaska were killing every wolf they could, legally and illegally, while predator control officers also removed wolves. Aerial poisoning and shooting campaigns were carried out and wolves were free to be killed by anybody. Little wonder wolves were scarce, very shy, attacks on people unheard of, livestock losses minimal, and wolf-borne diseases virtually escaped notice. In the absence of personal experience, they chose to disregard the accumulated experience of others from Asia and Europe.

I asked Val to look into his crystal ball and predict what he saw as the future fate of wolves for North America.

He said that wolves throughout North America will come into contact with millions of coyotes and feral dogs–the numbers of which are much higher than any previous time in history. The wolves will kill some of the dogs and coyotes, but others will breed resulting in hybrids. In short, pure-bred wolves in the wild will become a thing of the past.

His second prediction was on hydatid disease:

The most important thing about the fate of wolves is hydatid disease. The threat scenario involves ranch dogs feasting on gut piles left by hunters or winter-killed elk and deer whose lungs and liver are infected with hydatid cysts. Deer and elk infected with cysts try to crowd in on private ranches trying to get away from wolves. A ranch dog gulping down the cysts will have mature tape worms in his gut within seven weeks or so and will then pass the deadly eggs in the ranch yard, kennel, veranda, and so on. People will bring infective eggs on their shoes into the house. Carpets and furniture will soon be hosting live, infective hydatid eggs. Children will be specially affected. Cysts take about a decade to mature. I will take at least another decade for cysts to grow to orange or grapefruit size in people. Nobody is facing up to the disease threat.

He added, “I do not think wolves have a happy future in the Lower 48.”

[Idaho45guy]

^^ Very sobering! ^^ Thanks for sharing!

[curioushooter]

I've lived in the Midwest all my life always envying the beauty and game of the rugged Northwest. It's too bad that it seems the Elk are not very plentiful. Someday I'd like to hunt out there, but I suspect it will be years from now. Maybe things will turn around.

[white eagle]

I should count myself lucky it seems that I did harvest a bull elk in Idaho in 2008

[white eagle]

I was told at that time of the wolves and the decimation of the elk herd
the wolves would run the ridge lines and go after bugling bulls and cows
I didn't see any wolves but did try to call them in with a predator call
for photographic evidence only ya know
we did find more bulls in the area but I was the only one to connect