25-20 wcf

[Uncle Jimbo]

I am back to realizing I need casing for my 25-20 wcf.
So I know one can resize 32-20 down to 25-20, but there are two big problems, one is the base thickness of the 32-20 being bigger and not working in all rifles in 25-20 and second is the failure rate of resizing the 32-20.
I have found some 218 bees cases and with all measurement being the same except the bullet diameter ,length and shoulder diameter, 218 being .329" and 25-20 being .333". If I sized it up, the shoulder would blow out with the first shooting, I can trim to proper length for 25-20.
My question I guess is can I size the case mouth up to .034" without weakening the case neck to much.
I already have the 25-20 dies, so is resizing up easier or resizing down easier?
I've never resized cases before so this is new to me.

[FISH4BUGS]

search this forum. there is a ton of info on this. also, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?367930-R-i-p-Grumpa-(matt-overhage)

[upnorthwis]

I've made them from .32-20 with an in between step of a .270 REN. Only lost a couple out of a hundred. And I didn't anneal them either.

[Bent Ramrod]

I’ve run .218 Bee shells through my .25-20 WCF FLS die and formed the latter cases with no losses whatsoever. I use Imperial Sizing Wax for this and all such significant dimensional change case forming.

My general rule-of-thumb is fireforming with blank charges to increase caliber, forming in dies to decrease, but in this case, the sizing up via dies worked fine as well. Didn’t try it, but would surmise that necking-up the unsupported case with a .25 caliber M die would distort the neck or case mouth.

The reformed .218 shells seem to last longer than the original .25-20 WCFs, an added bonus.

[earlmck]

At least in the Winchester brand the 218 Bee cases are built heavier to handle higher pressures than the 25-20 cases, so will have a bit less case capacity than normal 25-20 cases. Won't take quite as much powder to get the same velocity you were getting with the 25-20 cases.

That said, I've lost very few when forming 25-20's out of 32-20's. You just make sure to first run the 32-20 cases through a neck expander (I use my "M" die) so the case mouth is perfectly round with no little dents like you often find on new cases. I also have an intermediate to take 'em down to 7mm but don't know how vital that is.

And I don't know where you got your misinformation on base diameter. I just checked my cases to be sure, but on both Winchester and Remington cases, headstamped 32/20 brass is the identical base diameter to headstamped 25/20 brass.

[Uncle Jimbo]

Starline has a footnote about it.

25-20 WCF
Specifications
Parent case .32-20 Winchester
Bullet diameter .258 in (6.6 mm)
Neck diameter .274 in (7.0 mm)
Shoulder diameter .333 in (8.5 mm)
Base diameter .349 in (8.9 mm)
Rim diameter .408 in (10.4 mm)
Rim thickness .065 in (1.7 mm)
Case length 1.330 in (33.8 mm)
Overall length 1.592 in (40.4 mm)
Primer type small rifle

32-20
Specifications
Case type Rimmed, bottleneck
Bullet diameter .3125 in (7.94 mm)
Neck diameter .327 in (8.3 mm)
Shoulder diameter .342 in (8.7 mm)
Base diameter .354 in (9.0 mm)
Rim diameter .408 in (10.4 mm)
Rim thickness .065 in (1.7 mm)
Case length 1.315 in (33.4 mm)
Overall length 1.592 in (40.4 mm)
Rifling twist 20"
Primer type Small pistol
Maximum CUP 16000 CUP

And that is where I got the information.

[atr]

I was in Dave's gun and pawn in Riverside WA a couple of weeks ago and they had new 25-20 Winchester in bags of 50.

[Uncle Jimbo]

I was in Dave's gun and pawn in Riverside WA a couple of weeks ago and they had new 25-20 Winchester in bags of 50.

If you get a chance to go back and they still have them, buy them. Hens teeth are easier to find. I haven't seen and in stories for some time now and the internet stories are always sold out.

[FISH4BUGS]

Mr. Moderator: Didn't the late GRUMPA have a ton of stuff here on 25-20 forming? My search shows nothing.
Help!

[AntiqueSledMan]

Try these,
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?309871-forming-25-20-brass
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?353466-25-20-cases-from-Starline-32-20-brass

AntiqueSledMan.

[FISH4BUGS]

Try these,
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?309871-forming-25-20-brass
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?353466-25-20-cases-from-Starline-32-20-brass
AntiqueSledMan.
THANK YOU!
I don't know why 25-20 does not show up on the search.

[EDG]

MY 50 year old RP brass in .218 Bee measured .344.

That is always the problem with a specification. The specification like an engineering drawing is just ink on paper. The actual item has the real data.

[DDJ]

I'm reading this thread with a great deal of interest. I just bought a 1913 vintage 92 Winchester in 25 20. The rifle is being shipped so I don't even have it yet. This will be my first attempt at cartridge conversion. So far I have nothing-no reloading dies or bullet molds. That will all come but first thing is to give the rifle a thorough cleaning and inspection. I'm looking forward to this project and will probably tapping you guys for all the knowledge you can provide. I've been reading everything I can find on converting 32 20 to 25 20

[FISH4BUGS]

I'm reading this thread with a great deal of interest. I just bought a 1913 vintage 92 Winchester in 25 20. The rifle is being shipped so I don't even have it yet. This will be my first attempt at cartridge conversion. So far I have nothing-no reloading dies or bullet molds. That will all come but first thing is to give the rifle a thorough cleaning and inspection. I'm looking forward to this project and will probably tapping you guys for all the knowledge you can provide. I've been reading everything I can find on converting 32 20 to 25 20

The links to Grumpa's posts will provide you with a wealth of knowledge. I bought 300 reformed 32-20 cases from him about a week before he passed. I have everything I need to cast and reload, but the move of the man cave to the horse stall in the barn, and all the remodeling has prevented me from starting the "grand experiment".
The man cave is getting buttoned up for the winter as we speak.
When I was gifted the Savage Sporter 23C, I also got a box of 50 rounds from the Old Western Scrounger with it. I have been able to fire a few rounds and really like it so far.

[RoyEllis]

Just my own experience, but no case losses taking 32/20 down to 25/20 by using a 300blk die to start neck reduction then a 6.5 grendel die to get the neck very close. Kinda pain going thru 3 diff. dies but it worked for me and didn't lose a single case out of 2500 i did for me & some buddies.

[Drm50]

It may be a PIA but I've found that any intermediate steps you can add to case reforming makes it easier with less ruined cases. I've never done 32/20 to 25/20 but have done many small wildcats with sharp necks and reduced from 357 case to .17 cal.

[Thin Man]

RoyEllis, 2500 pieces of brass through 3 different sizing dies??? Wow, your arm must look like Popeye's. Lots f work but if you had 0% case failure you must be doing something right. Now I want to try your 3-step method for better end results than I now have. Thanks for the details of this conversion. Wondering - which lube did you use on the cases to make these changes? Thanks.

[Three44s]

RoyEllis, 2500 pieces of brass through 3 different sizing dies??? Wow, your arm must look like Popeye's. Lots f work but if you had 0% case failure you must be doing something right. Now I want to try your 3-step method for better end results than I now have. Thanks for the details of this conversion. Wondering - which lube did you use on the cases to make these changes? Thanks.

As sweet a shooter as the 25-20 Win is we will go to the ends of the earth for more brass!

Best regards

Three44s

[RoyEllis]

RoyEllis, 2500 pieces of brass through 3 different sizing dies??? Wow, your arm must look like Popeye's. Lots f work but if you had 0% case failure you must be doing something right. Now I want to try your 3-step method for better end results than I now have. Thanks for the details of this conversion. Wondering - which lube did you use on the cases to make these changes? Thanks.

Lol that didn't get done all at once! I made up some for myself then others conned me into doing theirs, all told was about a 6 to 8 month span.
First I started with the .300blk die, then a light mouth anneal. Then on to the 6.5 grendel die finally finishing with the .25/20 die, light smear of Imperial Sizing wax at each reduction step then a final length trim just to make sure every case started it's life in perfect shape. I think the "not so secret" secret to my success at this is primarily due to not forcing too great a dimension change at one time but working them down in smaller steps. Hope at least some find this helpful!

[DDJ]

As of last night 11/17 Midway had both Remington loaded 25 20 for sale at 69 bucks a box and Winchester 25 20 brass for 19 bucks for 50 I believe.

[MI2600]

Now, I have an urge to do some 25-20 ala 32-20 although I haven't shot my 25-20s in years. So, tonight I tried the forming just using the 25-20 FL die and a little Imperial wax. Amazingly, I formed about thirty cases with only one having a small shoulder dimple. I annealed beforehand and worked the forming in about three slow stages.

Didn't RCBS or someone make conversion dies?

[Gunslinger1911]

Try http://loadxammo.com/ , they don't show it on the web site as empty brass that I can find, but they had a special run of 25-20 made by Star Line.
Buddy of mine bought 300. Was $65 / 100 back in May.
Try steve (at)loadxammo(dot)com.

[DrDucati]

Try http://loadxammo.com/ , they don't show it on the web site as empty brass that I can find, but they had a special run of 25-20 made by Star Line.
Buddy of mine bought 300. Was $65 / 100 back in May.
Try steve (at)loadxammo(dot)com.

Good person to work with. He has these listed on GunBroker as a buynow, and at the price you have stated.