C-More M26 Shotgun

[Keith]

My new shotgun arrived in the mail yesterday. I want to cast slugs and use in it. I have ordered a red dot sight, the Vortex SPARC AR for it. It only has a modified choke tube fitted and I cant find out if one can get a rifled choke.
If not I will chop the barrel and sweat on an adapter to take Invector chokes so I can fit a rifled choke that way.
Anyone had experience with these?
Its nearly impossible for us in OZ to get stuff out of the USA.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48868447407_adbbb1aa5c_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hskyS4)C-More mag03 (https://flic.kr/p/2hskyS4) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/

[bikerbeans]

No experience with that scattergun but I have found box feed semiautomatics can be quite picky about what ammo they will cycle correctly.

;BB

[smithnframe]

Good luck!

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Very nice looking shotgun how long is the barrel and its OD at the muzzle ?
Wonder if they also make it in 20 ga
Can you please tell us as to how much it cost ?
Thanks for sharing it.

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Keith]

It is an 18 inch barrel. All made in the USA originally for the Military
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M26_Modular_Accessory_Shotgun_System
I thought you guys (Stateside) would know all about them
Its 12 gauge with a modified choke but they must use their own thread as its a very fine one and I cant find a commercial choke to fit
It will take Saiga mags and they dont seem to have feed problems.
They dont make a 20 gge. Only this model for civilian use.
However would this choke be OK for slugs as is before I chop the barrel and sweat on an adapter? I could try bought slug loads but really want to cast my own.

[skrapyard628]

Thats an interesting scattergun. First time I have heard of it and I tend to gravitate toward semi-auto mag fed shotguns so it surprised me. Then I saw that it is manually operated.

I would think that they werent too popular here in the USA because they are manually operated and we are able to easily pick up a semi-auto mag fed shotgun if we want one. It is kinda neat that they made a short barrel version that you can attach to your AR15. But also kinda pointless since it seems like it would be really bulky hanging off the front of an AR, and since there was already the Masterkey (a short-barrel rail attached 870).

You should be fine shooting slugs through that modified choke. I have a Saiga 12 with a modified choke that has eaten boatloads of foster slugs, remington sluggers, and some soft round balls.

I would say to keep away from sabot slugs though. To my recollection the sabot slugs are designed to be fired through rifled barrels, not smoothbore.

[CastingFool]

Any way you could ream out the modified choke to improved cylinder? That is what my factory slug barrel was choked. I could get 2-3/4" groups at 50 yrds all day long, as long as I did my part.

[Keith]

Thanks for that. Might be worth a try as is then before I do anything drastic.
Did our weekly trip to town today and our gun shop had some rifled slug loads so I bought a box of 5 to try when my red dot arrives.
I ordered a Lyman slug mould as well. Looks like an airgun pellet shape and goes in a plastic wad . so will try them as well.
If I could keep them in a 6 inch gong at 50 yds that would do.

[Keith]

Any way you could ream out the modified choke to improved cylinder? That is what my factory slug barrel was choked. I could get 2-3/4" groups at 50 yrds all day long, as long as I did my part.

Sorry , it is an IC choke not modified. Just about to test these four loads I have.

[Keith]

Just to test it I tried my home grown Lyman slug. It did not do too well. All these are 50 yards.
Its the 3 holes with a circle around them. One near the centre the rest going higher..
Next was the S&B special slug. Up near the top. One keyholed.
Next the Federal Power Shok FPS, not much good either.
Next the Federal Vital Shok. I had nearly given up but these proved the gun can shoot slugs anyway. The FVS, one above the other, three shots.
May have been the way I was holding. Its a light gun so one has to hang on to it.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48927750257_beb99e0e9e_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hxzvwZ)slug 01 (https://flic.kr/p/2hxzvwZ) by


Put up a new target and shot the last two from the 5 round box. after bringing the sight down 6 clicks.
Two touching. That will do me. Now to get that Lyman slug doing that.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2hxzwdi]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48927752537_ec74d37b9b_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/)slug 02 (https://flic.kr/p/2hxzwdi) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]

[Montana Slim]

The M26 is a straight pull bolt action. The unlocking action is in essence the same as a pump action. Be sure not to pull rearward on the handle when firing. Not a problem, other than it may click rather than go bang. Also, don't hold the trigger back when cycling... otherwise the hammer will follow the bolt (will not stay cocked) No danger with that either, although always keep muzzle in safe direction as you always would anyway.. Sorry, I don't recall the choke threads, but at one time Mossberg was making some of the parts, so I'd try an invector. In any case slugs should be fine at 50 yds. A red dot is a perfect match for that & I suspect that it'll shoot up to your expectations at 100 yds. I'm somewhat familiar with the US military M26, which has a few different features than yours. I retired before getting the opportunity to personally test fire one.

[Keith]

One thing I find disturbing but may not matter is that the breech bolt unlocks on firing. Seems to be mainly those factory slug loads, they have a bit of grunt. It unlocks and stops with about half an inch of case showing. One has to pull the bolt to finish it off and eject.
I thought it may be capable of slam firing like the old Winchester but as you say , it wont.
I tried Invector chokes but completely different.

[Montana Slim]

It tended to self unlock a bit when firing mil buckshot. Not a problem, but i suspect a stiffer spring on the unlocking mechanism would counter it. All a trade-off since that makes action stiffer to cycle. I had extensively "meddled" with gun's design including extractors & ejector, but cut me off on the unlocking and disconnect features. Best add was the recoil absorbing stock. Prevents deep regret after pulling the trigger:-D

[Keith]

It wont shoot the Lyman 525 in any of the home loads I have tried but they work great in my old Break action I cut off and threaded for an Invector rifled choke.
I bought a double .678 RB mould and I am getting a bit frustrated getting it to shoot those. Try out some more today.with a heap of Farex baby formula under the ball and see how it goes with that. I cant find COW down here so this might work but its fairly finely ground.

[Keith]

Previously I have tried 28 grains of WSF under a Federal 12S3 with a card wad under the ball, then different combos of cork and felt etc and none grouped better that about 12 inches at 25 metres.
Today I used some new white hulls with straight sides. Win 209 primer. Bush 155 in the Lee which gives me 28.2 grains of WSF.
A Lee 3.2 cc scoop of Farex in the cup and the ball over then a fold crimp.
Best group to date so far. 3 shots into 6 inches at 25 meters.
So now I have loaded more for later. 5 at 28.9 grns ( bush 163.) Then 5 at 30 grns (bush 171) Then 5 at 31.7 grns (bush 180)
These last two loads have two 1.3 scoops of Farex under the ball.
How high a WSF charge can I go? Not any data for round balls and these shells around.
Recovered wads look good.
Thats one in the photo Could almost reuse them :)259039

I just found some data using Federal Gold Medal plastic shells which seem to be close to these white ones.
Using CCI 209 primers 29.5 grns of WSF give 10,600PSI and 1330 FPS for 1 1/4 oz shot
Using Win 209 primers 31.5 grains WSF give 9.500 PSI and 1330 FPS for 1 1/4 oz shot

These balls are lighter than that so maybe I can go higher, although I dont know what it will do to accuracy.
That ball in the red wad is a nice firm push through the choke.

[megasupermagnum]

You may use any 1 1/8 ounce shot data for these in-wad ball loads. If that pictured wad is a fired wad, I'm thinking your fit in the bore is too loose. I know it is often said on this site that only a gentle push through the bore is ideal. In my experience, wad slugs shoot better the tighter you can get them. It is a very thin line between tight and ruined wad (which ruins accuracy). This is one of the reason I do not like wad slugs. Some of my best shooting loads when measured with wad and slug together were almost .010" over bore diameter, and were very tough to push through by hand.

If you can push that through by hand through a modified choke, you are certainly too loose of a fit. Try the Lee .690" ball.

[Keith]

Yes its a fired wad. I corrected myself in post 9 above. Its got an Improved cylinder choke not Modified.
I cast some .690 balls a few years ago for another project. I put one in that Federal wad and it seemed too tight in the hull. But I will try again, load one up and see if it will chamber.

[centershot]

You may use any 1 1/8 ounce shot data for these in-wad ball loads. If that pictured wad is a fired wad, I'm thinking your fit in the bore is too loose. I know it is often said on this site that only a gentle push through the bore is ideal. In my experience, wad slugs shoot better the tighter you can get them. It is a very thin line between tight and ruined wad (which ruins accuracy). This is one of the reason I do not like wad slugs. Some of my best shooting loads when measured with wad and slug together were almost .010" over bore diameter, and were very tough to push through by hand.

If you can push that through by hand through a modified choke, you are certainly too loose of a fit. Try the Lee .690" ball.

My findings also, but, my oh my, they group so nicely for me! 259066

[Keith]

Well I unscrewed the IC choke and tried to push the .690 ball and wad combo through. No go.
Anyway loaded some up with 30 grains of WSF full wad and ball on some Farex.
3 shots in 8 inches at 25 yds.
Next load was with the wad trimmed back a 1/4 inch so the ball opened the crimp. No difference.
Dropped the charge back to 25 grains with both combinations. No difference.
These wads are not damaged at all even going through that choke. Very disapointing.
These wads are going a full 25 yds down range. Is that normal?
I thought they might have dropped off sooner.
Bit lost what to try next.
259124

Keith

[centershot]

Keith, your wads look great, they are doing their job! I normally find mine about 25 yds downrange also, so no worries there. If you're not using a 16 or 20 gauge card in the bottom of the shotcup, you should try that next. You might want to try a faster powder such as Red Dot or Green Dot. Which ball did you load on your last trial?

[Keith]

I have tried a card wad but no difference. There is about 2cc of Farex under the ball as a cup and looking at the inside of the wad I can not see any sign of it cupping around the ball. This test was with the 690 ball that was too tight to push by hand. I expected to see wad damage.
We cant get Red or Green Dot. According to the ADI powder equivalent chart Trailboss is with Bullseye between Red and Green Dot.
I have Trailboss and Unique. The latter a bit faster than my WSF.
I have read some use the slower SR4756 which is equivalent to our AP 100 but I dont have either ATM.

[megasupermagnum]

Those wads still look like they are barely touched, that bore must be huge on that gun. What was the actual diameter of the balls from the .690" mold, and what alloy did you cast them with?


With a ball of only 1 1/8 ounce, I think the faster the powder you can get, the better. I'm not sure if trailboss has much use in shotguns though. I've never tried WSF. Unique is worth a try. I'm seeing charges from 22 to 24 grains being safe with pretty much any primer in a federal gold medal hull.

One trick to gain some diameter I've seen mentioned is to roll the ball between a couple of rattail files to knurl it. This only needs to be done around a small circumference of the ball. If you are not already doing so, load the balls sprue facing up to the crimp.

I can't find any info on what thread the choke tube is. Take a picture of the choke tube, and measure the OD of the threads, and the distance from the base, to the start of the threads as best as you can. I can compare and see if they match an american thread like Remchoke, Winchoke, etc.

[Keith]

Sorry, forgot to measure the ball.
The choke is .810 across the threads and the mouth is .723
I wrote to C-More about the chokes and they said it is their own and wont be making any others. In a pinch I will cut a couple of inches off and use the Manson259240 choke install tools I have here to ream and thread for Win/Invector chokes. The thread on this is finer than the Invector
Going to try these cheap Diana trap loads. Cut the fold crimp off put in 3.1 cc of Farex, pressed in the .690 RB and did a roll crimp.
See what happens tomorrow.

PS. Just went and measured a ball. Its .694
One would think at that the wads would show more sign through that .723 hole.

[Blood Trail]

It is an 18 inch barrel. All made in the USA originally for the Military
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M26_Modular_Accessory_Shotgun_System
I thought you guys (Stateside) would know all about them
Its 12 gauge with a modified choke but they must use their own thread as its a very fine one and I cant find a commercial choke to fit
It will take Saiga mags and they dont seem to have feed problems.
They dont make a 20 gge. Only this model for civilian use.
However would this choke be OK for slugs as is before I chop the barrel and sweat on an adapter? I could try bought slug loads but really want to cast my own.

Never heard of them and I served in the Marine Corps from 1997-2006. We used Benelli M4’s and Mossberg 590A1’s. Still do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Keith]

Well might be getting somewhere.
22, 23, and 24 of Unique give me these groups at 25 yds. A lot better than I was getting before. Need to try 22 and 23 again but now I have discovered my wad supply is low. Fed 12S3 for straightwall cases.
Rung my LGS and no more available. He has WAA12L but as I understand they are for tapered hulls.
I think I read Longbow puts a newspaper wad over the cup to hold the powder back. Should I do this or look for a better wad elsewhere.?
Is the Claybuster 2118-12 OK for this. I need the same length bit in the middle but the shotcup can be smaller.
Bit limited for wads here in OZ. This ball is the .678. The .694 I was using gave a good group but I discovered I dont have the mould so just ordered one. Someone must have given me a few balls.259426

Just been talking to another gunshop. He has CB2100 wads that he says will do what I want. I am not familiar with them. Is he correct?

[megasupermagnum]

Well might be getting somewhere.
22, 23, and 24 of Unique give me these groups at 25 yds. A lot better than I was getting before. Need to try 22 and 23 again but now I have discovered my wad supply is low. Fed 12S3 for straightwall cases.
Rung my LGS and no more available. He has WAA12L but as I understand they are for tapered hulls.
I think I read Longbow puts a newspaper wad over the cup to hold the powder back. Should I do this or look for a better wad elsewhere.?
Is the Claybuster 2118-12 OK for this. I need the same length bit in the middle but the shotcup can be smaller.
Bit limited for wads here in OZ. This ball is the .678. The .694 I was using gave a good group but I discovered I dont have the mould so just ordered one. Someone must have given me a few balls.259426

Just been talking to another gunshop. He has CB2100 wads that he says will do what I want. I am not familiar with them. Is he correct?

I would inspect those wads in person. I am under the impression all current Claybuster wads have ribs inside. They work great with shot, but do not fit slugs well. This is unfortunate, as this was not always the case. I used to use Claybuster's for slugs years ago, and they did not have ribs at that time. The WAA12L can work for you, even without newspaper with a flake powder like Unique. It may not be ideal, but I've loaded thousands of straight wall hulls with Winchester wads. The only problem there is that Winchester wad petals tend to be thinner than Federal. Not what you want from what I am seeing, but who knows. If you can get Downrange wads there, the DRF3 is a Federal 12S3 clone. The other Federal wads, 12S1 and 12S4 can work as well.

If you go to a .735" ball, you can do away with the wad petals all together. 18 grains Unique with the full bore ball shoots about 1000 fps, and does not recoil bad at all. I'd slug your bore first, you may even need a bigger ball than that. If a full bore ball doesn't shoot good, nothing will.

[Keith]

Thanks. I cant get Downrange wads here and in fact due to this Kung flu thing everything is getting hard to get.
I started a thread to get info on CB wads and see what happens.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Keith: My standard Round Ball load is my standard Trap Load with a .662 ball and 1/4" felt wad instead of the shot. (20 gr of green dot) I only use Claybuster WAA12 Clones as that's all I have. I mostly use AA or STS hulls for these with a fold crimp loaded on my DL266. I don't think there is enough difference to worry about if using strait wall hulls as the gas seal still expands to fill the hull during firing.

IMHO, there is more to be gained from barrel work than chasing loading minutia. The barrels I have that have been Vang Comped perform much better than strait cylinder bore barrels. My Browning A5 "Buck Special" barrel has a fixed IC choke .730>.715 and it shoots slugs and round balls very well. Point being,,, the barrel configuration is the key not the load.

Ithaca found with their Deerslayer M37's that a little choke made slugs more accurate. Browning copied that idea in their barrels.

I don't know if there are any Shotgun Gunsmiths that specialize in Barrel Mods in AUS, but I would have a look and see if that service is available to you. Otherwise http://vangcomp.com and ship it over here.

Vang lengthens the forcing cone to 3", back bores the barrel to .745, and leaves 2" at the muzzle tapered back down to .730. Then ports the barrel to mitigate muzzle rise.

Randy

[Keith]

Thanks Randy. Thats interesting. This has a 3 inch chamber but I have not checked the forcing cone.
Not much information on these C-More guns around. I have no idea how to get the barrel out. One day with nothing to do I will start stripping it for a look see. As an aside I have a Steyr Scout Tactical Elite in .223. I have no idea how to remove the barrel in that either. Its had a few thousand through it as my wifes F class rifle and I would like to set the barrel back and rechamber.

[Keith]

Having just one choke available is bugging me. I want to use the Carlson Coyote choke I bought for the Boito for Buckshot loads.
Bit the bullet , stripped it as far as I could, cut 1 1/2 inches off the muzzle, reamed and tapped for Invector chokes.
The barrel seems to be held on by that screw in the front and a cap screw on top. The cap screw would loosen
]260991260994260997
but that one on the front is solid. I did not want to overdo it in case I stripped the corners of the hex inside. Anyway I could still ream it with the receiver on.
Woops I must have left the cursor in the middle.

I tried to delete the last photo but cant. Its the Boito barrel not the C-More. I got the wrong one.

[Keith]

Got it back together.
261041

Loaded some up with a roll crimp in a new hull. 20 grns Unique Fed 12S0 wad with 2 thick card wads and 4 felt wads in the shot cup for the final lot. This bought the height up. The earlier ones I only had 2 cards and 2 felts and trimmed the petals .1 inch and rolled. The roll went a fair way down in the hull before it trapped the ball. I thought too far so packed the wad more. Not sure how it shoots yet.
The choke is a bit tighter than the IC. Its a Carlson Tactical Breecher but they dont give the specs. The 695 RB in the wad wont push through but the .678 will.

261044

[W.R.Buchanan]

Keith: that is a pretty vicious looking shotgun,, I'm surprised they let you have it?

Your rounds look good, but not sure about the ball sticking out the end. On your gun it obviously won't make any difference

You might try putting one of the Clear Plastic Overshot Cards on top of your ball which would give the roll crimp something to bottom out on sooner.

Randy

[Keith]

Hey, they give us a hard time on appearance laws here.Trying to ban GelBlasters because they look like real guns.
These C-Mores are ok here in Queensland but not in NSW. They are still classed as A along with .22,s and SxS shotguns etc. Yet the Adler Lever Action I had was also A when I bought it , then the greens winged that it was a "fast fire" weapon so it was reclassed as B along with centrefire rifles etc. We cant understand it at all.
I guess you guys dont have much to do with the straight pull action. The Adler straight pull you pull the bolt back and spring return chambers the round. The C-More you have to manually pull it back and push it forward to chamber. The Adler is also banned in NSW the ACT and Canberra.