Slugging Barrels

[srkmarine1101]

Getting ready to order a 45-70 sharps. Looking forward to casting rounds for this beast. Just wondering, do you guys slug your bore once you receive a new rifle prior to ordering custom moulds? If so, what do you find works best for a 45-70 bore?

[big bore 99]

Run an oily patch down your bore and use a soft fishing sinker a little bigger.

[BrentD]

Roundballs for muzzleloaders work well, but any grease groove bullet for that caliber should work - they are slightly over groove diameter. Frankly, this might be the only thing those greasers are good for ;)

[srkmarine1101]

Gotcha. Thanks for the info guys!

[indian joe]

Roundballs for muzzleloaders work well, but any grease groove bullet for that caliber should work - they are slightly over groove diameter. Frankly, this might be the only thing those greasers are good for ;)

249508

5 @ 100yards - the flier is me not the gun or load - grease groove boolit over straight blackpowder - from a 45/75 lever gun - boolit is from a LEE mold
pretty useless result huh!:grin:

and yeah use a muzzle loader ball to slug em specially first time ya do it - less chance of messing up

[cowboy4evr]

It's not the " bore " diameter that you want . It's the " groove " diameter . It's the largest of the 2 measurements .

[BrentD]

It's not the " bore " diameter that you want . It's the " groove " diameter . It's the largest of the 2 measurements .


That definitely depends. For me, the bore (land) diameter is far more important.

[Wayne Smith]

Brent is wrong - you only use pure lead for slugging, and you rarely find a pure lead grease groove boolit - they are almost always at least 20-1 lead/tin. Pure lead does not spring back, you get an accurate measure. Any other mix will spring back and your measure is inaccurate.

[BrentD]

Wayne, don't be ridiculous.

[Chill Wills]

Maybe a little explanation is needed as to why groove or bore diameters may be of greater interest.

In general, if shooting a paperpatched bullet that needs a close fit to the bore for alignment upon loading - think getting the bullet lined up- the bore diameter become critical. The groove measurement then is less so.

If shooting grease-groove bullets or even PP bullets of groove diameter, then barrel groove becomes the major diameter we want to measure and you do not want to have the bullet be smaller than groove. Often in the case of GG bullets, the area just ahead of the groove (throat) and after the chamber might be a better size to fit the bullet to. You want a full diameter fit from the get-go.

I agree about spring back. However, in my experience the amount of difference using something like 20-1 or WW v pure lead is measured four places to the right of the decimal point and gets lost in the noise in practice. So, it is true, IF you have pure Pb to use, that would be best but lacking it would not slow me down getting a slug through the barrel waiting on pure Pb.

That is my take on it. Your experience may vary.

[BrentD]

for over 15 yrs, I swaged thousands of bullets from pure lead to 16:1 alloy. They were all exactly the same size upon exiting the swaging die.

When chambering cartridges, I can feel differences in bullet diameters that are smaller than these calipers can measure https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-500-170-30CAL-Digimatic-Calibration-Resolution/dp/B00JPHJY1U/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?keywords=myoto+digital+calipers&qid=1573574735&s=hi&sr=1-3-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyRlpJQkc1TDROOFNVJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDI4MTcxSDFETjVEVkJLOElPJmVuY3J 5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwNzA0MjAzMlpFSzNSS0YzTEFLJndpZGdld E5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm9 0TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

But those swaged bullets of different alloys feel exactly the same when they are fed into the rifle. There is no measureable, or even feelable - differences in diameters as a function of bullet alloy. It is simple to test. Try slugging a bore with two different alloys of lead. Make it a blind experiment, and I bet you cannot tell which one was the lower alloy slug more often than you can predict a coin flip.

[Lead pot]

using $15. or $20. calipers will vary several thousands from caliper to caliper measuring drill shanks, that is more than any spring back a hard bullet will have. I swage also and I have never seen the diameter change with different lead or lead alloys. The die is marked .444" and the bullet drops out at .44421" with 1/20 or 1/16 lead wire cores.

[Wayne Smith]

Agreed, if you are measuring with a caliper it won't matter. Measuring with a micrometer and know how to use it ...

[BrentD]

Wayne, it still won't matter.

[indian joe]

boolits or roundball ? both work
I prefer roundball
1) they deform easier to fill the grooves
2) they go through the bore a little easier because of less friction/ surface area in contact
a boolit is maybe a little easier to measure with calipers?
for all practical purposes either will work as well as tother
Arguing it is about like saying which zebra has the best set of stripes .

[john.k]

Id second roundball,as more than once has a bullet got jammed ,and heavier blows to move it have resulted in bulging the barrel......... be sure the bore is oiled...............and dont hit the muzzle with a hammer.

[piwo]

So, when slugging the bore, do you attempt to push it all the way through the barrel, or only the first inch or so at the muzzle?

[BrentD]

Both, piow

[BrentD]

Do the breech/throat too.

[Huvius]

I pay more attention to the bore diameter than the groove regardless of what type of cast boolit I'm using.
I think that if a bore diameter boolit will obturate to fill the grooves, then why won't any boolit sized anywhere from bore to full groove diameter? (dependent of course on your throat and how far out of the case you want to place your boolit)
Maybe a good first question is, what is the type of Sharps have you bought and what do you intend on using your rifle for?

[John Boy]

:redneck:.To measure lands in the barrel - set of certified plug gages. To measure the grooves - a lubed pure lead round ball pushed by a piece of hickory rod in front of a cleaning rod

[BrentD]

:redneck:.To measure lands in the barrel - set of certified plug gages. To measure the grooves - a lubed pure lead round ball pushed by a piece of hickory rod in front of a cleaning rod


There is an interesting story of a well known shooter ruining a friend's rifle with a set of plug gauges. Know what you are doing with them. Or be smart and use a lead slug for land diameter too.

[John Boy]

There is an interesting story of a well known shooter ruining a friend's rifle with a set of plug gauges. Know what you are doing with them. Brent, how so ruin a rifle? They either slid in and fit or they don't fit. Of course, if the bore is tapered ... a whole different story

[BrentD]

I wasn't there, but the story is that these things can and will get stuck in a bore sooner or later, even if prelubed. Getting them out may prove ugly.

Why use them when a lead slug works just as well, costs less, is analog rather than digital, and you probably don't even need to go to the store or order on line to get one?

[Chill Wills]

There is an interesting story of a well known shooter ruining a friend's rifle with a set of plug gauges. Know what you are doing with them. Or be smart and use a lead slug for land diameter too.

YEP! [smilie=s: He did.

Be careful with those pin gauges. I use them. Never, never try to run them through the barrel end to end. Good barrels are often choked. If you have a set of pin gauges and feel you need to know the minor diameter (bore) of the barrel, check the muzzle and chamber by only inserting the gauge a small amount CAREFULLY.
If a tight lead slug is run all the way through from chamber to muzzle, tight spots and rough spots can be felt. Some of this can even be felt with a very tight oiled cleaning patch.

[Don McDowell]

Getting ready to order a 45-70 sharps. Looking forward to casting rounds for this beast. Just wondering, do you guys slug your bore once you receive a new rifle prior to ordering custom moulds? If so, what do you find works best for a 45-70 bore?

A chamber cast with cerrosafe that takes in about the first inch of the rifling past the throat will tell you all you need to know, if you need to know.

[Conditor22]

I cast pure lead boolits from the largest mold I have in each caliber and use them for slugging/poundcasting

[ragnar]

I cast pure lead boolits from the largest mold I have in each caliber and use them for slugging/poundcasting

Do choked bores really improve accuracy?

[bigted]

I agree with Don. Basic chamber/throat measurements will usually tell the tale of what is needed for beginning the trail down the rabbit hole. OR ... measure your first three fired cases to find the largest and probably best boolit diameter of fairly soft lead/tin mix. Rarely will your chamber/throat needs wonder far from an accuracy need in the diameter of the lead projectile.

Rest is testing testing testing! Shooting shooting shooting!

The paper patched boolit now may be a very different story. May need more bore/groove diameters to be able to make em work well. Then your chamber needs to meet your bore needs closer for good repeatable accuracy. A paper patch chamber is not going to be the best for greasers and vice-e-versy!