God created evil

[dverna]

I am not sure why He created evil but He created everything.

Maybe we need evil so we can appreciate goodness. Just as we need darkness to appreciate light. Or hate to appreciate love.

Many believe the first sin occurred when Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, but they are incorrect. The first sin occurred in Heaven. It caused Satan and a third of the angels to be driven out of Heaven to earth. Without that (sin of pride) occurring, Satan would not have existed to tempt Eve.

If there was no suffering, pain, or death in the world, would man appreciate God and obey Him....obviously not...as that was what Adam and Eve had, and they squandered it within a few days of creation.

I wonder if God created evil so we could find Him. It makes the most sense to me. For He is goodness; but man needs to understand and experience evil to find the way to Him.

[GhostHawk]

Without darkness, how do you appreciate light?

Without evil how can you understand good and the difference between them?

What incentive is there to try to work to be better than we are if all is a flat gray featureless plain? No light, no dark, no good, no evil, no highs, no lows?

I know my faith and belief have changed me considerably over the last 5 years. I have to think almost all of it was positive.
Yes I'm still a sinner, and yes I still stumble, trip, fail and fall daily. But not as often as before. Heck my wife and I hardly fight at all. And when we do instead of the hours long battle royale's we used to have it is 5 minutes, over and done. Apologized for, forgiven and forgotten. And we go back to loving and caring for each other.

But every coin has to has 2 sides. Without contrast what do you have?

[Ickisrulz]

I would say that God created the possibility for evil in that he made creatures with free will.

[dverna]

I would say that God created the possibility for evil in that he made creatures with free will.

Interesting take and the one normally used to describe man. I offer the following thoughts.

If the search for knowledge is a good thing, the "sin" of eating from the Tree of Knowledge seems predestined, and God knew that. The sin of pride was still, in my mind, the original sin. It affected one third of the angels in Heaven. And that was not a small number:

According to Revelation 5:11, there are many angels:
11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand.

We are forced to conclude that angels were not perfect and had free will. Tens of thousands chose to sin within a few days of creation. It appears mankind was destined to sin eventually. I believe God knew that would happen. Free will is the "excuse" used to beat down man for being human and imperfect but man was doomed from the beginning. We were "designed" to sin by the very nature that God gave us...to seek knowledge, understanding and truth.

I wrestle with tens of thousands of angels committing such a foolish sin (sin of pride) so soon after creation. What were they thinking!

It seems the sin of disobedience committed by Adam and Eve, was minor in comparison. The resulting punishments would not only be suffered by Adam and Eve, but carry on to the rest of mankind until evil is at last defeated.

Evil is a necessary component of Gods plan. Our free will makes us susceptible to it, and if we are not careful, evil will ruin our lives here on earth and for eternity.

[big bore 99]

He gave us all a free will for a purpose.

[Ickisrulz]

Interesting take and the one normally used to describe man. I offer the following thoughts.

If the search for knowledge is a good thing, the "sin" of eating from the Tree of Knowledge seems predestined, and God knew that. The sin of pride was still, in my mind, the original sin. It affected one third of the angels in Heaven. And that was not a small number:

According to Revelation 5:11, there are many angels:
11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand.

We are forced to conclude that angels were not perfect and had free will. Tens of thousands chose to sin within a few days of creation. It appears mankind was destined to sin eventually. I believe God knew that would happen. Free will is the "excuse" used to beat down man for being human and imperfect but man was doomed from the beginning. We were "designed" to sin by the very nature that God gave us...to seek knowledge, understanding and truth.

I wrestle with tens of thousands of angels committing such a foolish sin (sin of pride) so soon after creation. What were they thinking!

It seems the sin of disobedience committed by Adam and Eve, was minor in comparison. The resulting punishments would not only be suffered by Adam and Eve, but carry on to the rest of mankind until evil is at last defeated.

Evil is a necessary component of Gods plan. Our free will makes us susceptible to it, and if we are not careful, evil will ruin our lives here on earth and for eternity.

It was God’s intention that man learn the difference between good and evil. The learning was to take place within the bounds that he prescribed. Man was to obey God’s directions (e.g., don’t eat from a certain tree--certainly more commands were to come). When man disobeyed, he was placed on another path of learning. It was a much more difficult path because it brought in willing participation in sin. With that participation, came pain, suffering, hard work and death. Man was to learn why sin is harmful.

Jesus’ path of learning followed God’s original intention. Jesus obeyed God’s commands wholly and learned the difference between good and evil without being a sinner. This was what God wanted for Adam and Eve. Jesus suffered because of the sin in the world, but was not a willing participant in sin as are the rest of us. He was tempted as Adam was in the Garden, but passed every test (remember how Satan misquoted God to Jesus as he had to Eve).

Man is immersed in sin his whole life. He can see the adverse results of sin. Therefore, redeemed men will not engage in sin in the Age to come. He will have gained the knowledge God wanted him to have. Unfortunately, he learned it the hard way.

Just for thought: It is possible that when Jesus was perfected (i.e., met every challenge) he was to be taken up into heaven to live (Luke 9:31). This might have been the plan for Adam and Eve and their children if they followed God’s path--transition to heaven without dying. Who knows?

The Bible simply does not give details about the fall of Satan or the angels. I know people like to quote from Isaiah 14, but that whole passage is about the king of Babylon not Satan. Maybe pride was Satan’s problem, maybe jealously. I often wonder if the fall of Man and the fall of Satan were from the same event (temptation in the Garden of Eden). There is no time given for the fall of the angels. It could have happened a billion years after their creation.

The Bible doesn’t give a whole lot of information on the creation of angels either. How long before man? Were they created all at once or over a long period of time, etc.? We have no idea about their experiences either. How do they live their lives? Heck, we don’t even know what humans will be doing in heaven. I think we can be confident that they were created without a sinful nature. That seems to have changed for some of them.

The big question is why is man redeemed and not the angels?

----Of course, all this is based on taking the Genesis account quite literally, which I do. Paul seemed to also.

[dverna]

Ickiszrulz,

You always make me think....

Just curious. Your comment about "There is no time given for the fall of the angels. It could have happened a billion years after their creation." leads me to believe you do not believe that creation occurred in 6-24 hr days as related in Genesis, or the young earth theory. There were only a few 24 hr days before before Satan and the corrupted angels were cast from heaven and the tempting of Adam and Eve. It is commonly held that the angels were created before the earth was created. If we look in the book of Job, we read this: “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth… when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” It seems likely that these words refer to angels. If they were singing for joy at the foundation of the Earth, then they possibly saw most of creation happen.



Thanks,

[Cast_outlaw]

If it’s true that angles don’t have free will how did lucifer fall from grace uless god made him so that make the devil nothing more than gods left hand tempting and smiting the earth

[Battis]

The concept of "free will" amazes me. Did you choose your hour or location of birth, your parents, your eye color, your body style, or a million other things that you have no control over? If free will existed, would anyone work in the sewers? No, we'd all be independently wealthy movie stars. I believe in fate, destiny or whatever you want to call it. I have faith that fate rules. As far as good and evil - in nature, there is a balance. That's why planets are round - equal forces working equally on all sides. If there was only good, the universe would be out of balance, and a portion of what we now call "good" would naturally be designated as "evil." Can faith and fate work together? Yes. I believe there is a plan, controlled by God, and when things go bad, I fall back on my Fate Theory - all things happen for a reason. I believe that the human mind can no more grasp the true concept of God than a fish in a fishbowl can understand the computer he (or she) sees across the room.
When we die, I believe we go back to where we were (or what we were) before birth.
I would say that the major difference in what I believe and what "believers" believe is that I have an unquestionable faith in God - if it happens, He directed it to happen, good or evil. I do not necessarily believe in sin, especially Original Sin (I was raised Catholic). We are what we are, what we were meant to be. We will do what we were meant to do, good or evil.
It gets me through the day.

[1hole]

NO, God did not "create evil".

Jesus created all things that were created. But doing wrong, like doing right, comes from a state of mind that rises within us; mindsets are not created "things" that require His hand.

[Ickisrulz]

Ickiszrulz,

You always make me think....

Just curious. Your comment about "There is no time given for the fall of the angels. It could have happened a billion years after their creation." leads me to believe you do not believe that creation occurred in 6-24 hr days as related in Genesis, or the young earth theory. There were only a few 24 hr days before before Satan and the corrupted angels were cast from heaven and the tempting of Adam and Eve. It is commonly held that the angels were created before the earth was created. If we look in the book of Job, we read this: “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth… when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” It seems likely that these words refer to angels. If they were singing for joy at the foundation of the Earth, then they possibly saw most of creation happen.



Thanks,

I can only speculate, but here are my thoughts on what might have happened.

God created the earth (Genesis 1:1) and populated it with animals, plants, etc. giving dominion of the earth to the creatures we know as angels. The rebellion of a portion of the angels led to the in-habitability of the earth leaving it covered in water and darkness and all biological life dead.

After a period, God repaired the earth (to include new forms of life) over six periods of time as described in Genesis 1:2 onward. This time man was given dominion of the earth.

A scenario like this would account for the extreme age of the earth and the weird fossil record that seem at odds with the Genesis account of creation.

I don't believe the earth is only 10K years old. But I don't believe humans evolved from lower forms of life either. I think we are missing big pieces of information about creation that might just look like what I described above.

[a danl]

If it’s true that angles don’t have free will how did lucifer fall from grace uless god made him so that make the devil nothing more than gods left hand tempting and smiting the earth

because lucifer wanted to be greater that God......

[JimB..]

Just as dark is the absence of light and spiritual death is a separation from God, perhaps evil is not a thing but rather the absence of a thing.

[dtknowles]

1 Timothy 6:16, James 1:13. God did not create evil. Dverna, I am sure you are a nice guy, but do you ever consider checking your Bible before you stir the pot around here? I mean, come on, really?

With the utmost respect,

exile

It is clear, God created everything. God is the creator of the universe and all that is in it. It does not matter what the Bible might say, God created evil. God may have created evil for a good reason. It is hard to know what is Gods plan. Some think they can find it in the Bible but I think they are mistaken.

Tim

[popper]

because Lucifer wanted to be greater that God And Lucifer was the General in God's chain of command. It is alluded that Lucifer was jealous of God creating Man with a special plan. Scripture does state that Man is more 'loved'/important than angels. Note the the Bible states angels can ONLY be in one place at a time - not a restriction for God.

[Hickory]

Evil is the rejection of God.
Nothing more, nothing less.

[popper]

Evil is the rejection of God sic. as the BOSS.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Many accept there is a God, not all accept He is the Boss of Eternity!

[Hickory]

Nothing more, nothing less.
Many accept there is a God, not all accept He is the Boss of Eternity!

That's close, but not entirely accurate.
Boss, is not how I would discribe my Heavenly Father.
I love God for who He is, and worship Him as my Heavenly Father.
A boss, needs nor expects any love from those under his authority, he only expects you to do what you are told.
If you can not give your love to Him, you should not expect to feel it given back to you.

[Shiloh]

He didn't create evil. He created free will. We choose to do evil. With good, how would we know what evil is??

Shiloh

[Bigslug]

The "Perfect Being" creates imperfect lieutenant beings that, even given their more perfect understanding of "The Plan", decide that "The Plan" is NOT perfect, and they part ways.

And then there's the even less perfect, less informed humans and their problems.

So I think the actual truth to the universe may be more in line with what Epicurous put forth 2300-ish years ago:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

It seems more likely to me that what was created was not good, nor evil, but rather A MESS. Seeking out the guidance of the toddler that made that mess seems less effective than finding your own broom and cleaning up your own corner in the matter that seems best to you.

[dtknowles]

He didn't create evil. He created free will. We choose to do evil. With good, how would we know what evil is??

Shiloh

You mean without good, how would we know what evil is.

Without evil everything would be good. We would have good, better, best and on that scale people might start thinking good was evil.

Tim

[Dieselhorses]

because Lucifer wanted to be greater that God And Lucifer was the General in God's chain of command. It is alluded that Lucifer was jealous of God creating Man with a special plan. Scripture does state that Man is more 'loved'/important than angels. Note the the Bible states angels can ONLY be in one place at a time - not a restriction for God.

Bingo. Lucifer wanted to be "equal" to God's stance/position/power. As being "General" or a "higher up" than the rest of the angels, I speculate God did instill a certain amount of decision making in Lucifer but it all went South (Literally). And yes God is "omnipresent" as so is His Son and the Holy Spirit. Satan knows he has been, is and always will be defeated but will never give up!

[Hickory]

If anyone believes for one second that God created evil, you would naturally assume that all guns were created to murder people!

[dtknowles]

Bingo. Lucifer wanted to be "equal" to God's stance/position/power. As being "General" or a "higher up" than the rest of the angels, I speculate God did instill a certain amount of decision making in Lucifer but it all went South (Literally). And yes God is "omnipresent" as so is His Son and the Holy Spirit. Satan knows he has been, is and always will be defeated but will never give up!

Is Lucifer defeated if he can still lure people to their doom?

Tim

[dverna]

If anyone believes for one second that God created evil, you would naturally assume that all guns were created to murder people!

Actually, most guns are created to kill people or other living things. I have a few strictly target guns but most of my weapons are weapons.

It seems counter intuitive to believe God created everything but not evil. Was evil "there" before creation? Did evil create itself? I think evil came out of heaven if I read the bible correctly.

I will give evil a lot of credit. For something that supposedly knows it will be defeated, it has remarkable tenacity and will not give up. But maybe evil didn't get that email?

[1hole]

Evil is not a "thing" that required an external creation. God didn't make angels or man to be puppets. Both have native intelligence and a free will to live and behave as we will.

Evil, anger, jealousy, greed, etc. are not "things" requiring a creation; they are base mindsets that rise from within each of us.
How we deal with them are life choices we each make for ourselves.

No one has to teach an infant to be screaming angry, massively selfish ... or bubbly happy; each of those qualities rise from within every infant. As we mature, we will either give free reign to our base natures or strive for the better ways to live.

Thankfully, as we grow up - IF we ever grow up! - most of us usually choose the better ways. But none of us can ever totally suppress our bad ways in this life. God can lead us away from our own evil ways because our own evil ways are something WE create, not Him.

[dverna]

Evil is not a "thing" that required an external creation. God didn't make angels or man to be puppets. Both have native intelligence and a free will to live and behave as we will.

Evil, anger, jealousy, greed, etc. are not "things" requiring a creation; they are base mindsets that rise from within each of us.
How we deal with them are life choices we each make for ourselves.

No one has to teach an infant to be screaming angry, massively selfish ... or bubbly happy; each of those qualities rise from within every infant. As we mature, we will either give free reign to our base natures or strive for the better ways to live.

Thankfully, as we grow up - IF we ever grow up! - most of us usually choose the better ways. But none of us can ever totally suppress our bad ways in this life. God can lead us away from our own evil ways because our own evil ways are something WE create, not Him.

Yet, evil is a thing....if we believe Satan exists. Satan is not a mindset...he is something. It would be akin to dismissing God as a being of Goodness. It may require accepting that creation involved more that creating things of a physical nature but also concepts. Love, honor, righteousness, greed, justice...etc etc.

[Dieselhorses]

Is Lucifer defeated if he can still lure people to their doom?

Tim

He has already won souls over just as Christ himself has won souls. Basically a war to see who gets the most. Here (https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/26801/why-does-a-clever-satan-fight-with-god-even-though-he-knows-he-will-lose) is a link explaining some of it.

[Thundarstick]

He has already won souls over just as Christ himself has won souls. Basically a war to see who gets the most. Here (https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/26801/why-does-a-clever-satan-fight-with-god-even-though-he-knows-he-will-lose) is a link explaining some of it.

If the "winner captures the most souls", it appears Satan has a very good lead heading into the 4th quarter.

[wv109323]

God created nothing evil. At the end of the days of creation God sums it up as "good". Evil or sin is when man behaves against God or his plan. Since the fall of Adam ,we are born with a sinful nature and must learn obedience(behavior) to God's will. No one has to teach a child to tell a lie or steal a cookie.
God created good and man behaves against his will. We need Jesus as a payment to redeem our sins to God.

[Blackwater]

I'm with Ick on this matter. Sometimes, if not regularly, we read the Bible with a very limited perspective. That can often lead us to conclude erroneously, and this, I believe, is one of those times.

God is perfect. Therefore, He CANNOT have anything to do with evil, and certainly cannot have created it. Evil is the LACK of righteousness, which God DID create. Evil is simply turning away from the Good that He created. Yes, we give it a name, and call it evil, but is is most certainly NOT a creation of God. It's the lacking of what He DID create. That's my take on it, anyway.

[nikonuser]

it seems that some have forgotten a few bits of greek astronomical wisdom.

the star that is representative of Christ who brought the knowledge of god to humans is also the representative star of Lucifer, the bringer of light. Guess good old luci bringing fire, the emblem of knowledge, is part and parcel with Christ bringing god to us.

Or as some happy thinkers ask, tisnt the anti Christ also the Christ..

[JohnChrysostom]

God didn't "create evil" that's blaspheme. God creates creatures, spirits and peoples what they do after the fact is mostly up to them & the weight of those sins lies squarely on them, Imagine being so disconnected from reality that you blame your crappy actions on the fact of your birth & yet this is what people do to God to justify their evil deeds or evil created in the world by agents whom hate God.

[JohnChrysostom]

it seems that some have forgotten a few bits of greek astronomical wisdom.

the star that is representative of Christ who brought the knowledge of god to humans is also the representative star of Lucifer, the bringer of light. Guess good old luci bringing fire, the emblem of knowledge, is part and parcel with Christ bringing god to us.

Or as some happy thinkers ask, tisnt the anti Christ also the Christ..

It actually doesn't and as a new Christian long ago reading the NIV i struggled with this but alas the NIV was the first to try to call Satan by the name of Jesus "Morning star" other older bibles don't blaspheme like this & add this designation in , it was never their in history. it was literally added not just a "bad translation" not an accident. but 2 of the editors of the NIV were homosexuals who also removed the word Sodomite from the bible so it figures they would call Satan by Jesus' designation. What you are saying is wishful thinking and Blaspheme. Here's the run down in black and white https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nivsatan.htm Lucifer means Venus a planet even the greeks knew the difference between a star and a planet. if anything it proves once again Satan pretending to be God/Jesus and Greek philosophy is a joke one verse of proverbs destroys ten books of Greek "philosophy" hardly wisdom.Furthermore to call Christ the Antichrist using older English isn't intellectual it's schizophrenic.... "tisn't" (really?!)

[nikonuser]

It actually doesn't and as a new Christian long ago reading the NIV i struggled with this but alas the NIV was the first to try to call Satan by the name of Jesus "Morning star" other older bibles don't blaspheme like this & add this designation in , it was never their in history. it was literally added not just a "bad translation" not an accident. but 2 of the editors of the NIV were homosexuals who also removed the word Sodomite from the bible so it figures they would call Satan by Jesus' designation. What you are saying is wishful thinking and Blaspheme. Here's the run down in black and white https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nivsatan.htm Lucifer means Venus a planet even the greeks knew the difference between a star and a planet. if anything it proves once again Satan pretending to be God/Jesus and Greek philosophy is a joke one verse of proverbs destroys ten books of Greek "philosophy" hardly wisdom.Furthermore to call Christ the Antichrist using older English isn't intellectual it's schizophrenic.... "tisn't" (really?!)

Christ is supposed to have brought all knowledge to us, yet satan by doing the apple thing gave us the same knowledge. so pfft to you

[Blackwater]

You know, in reviewing this thread, it comes to me that this is one of those unanswerable questions because the question itself is flawed. It ASSUMES that God DID create evil, which I believe to be a denial of all that God truly is. God is light, He is goodness, He is satisfaction unlike any that exists elsewhere. Nothing about Him is evil, nor did He ever create evil. Perhaps Lucifer was the originator of all evil. He is called the "Father of all lies," isn't he? But God never created evil. That comes from the terrestrial nature of man combined with the temptations from the Great Temptor, Satan himself. When he rebelled and challenged God Himself, evil was borne into existence, and God never had a hand in it. Satan created it of his own free will, and man follows it of his own free will, or gives his life and soul to God. There are no other choices. Just these two.

And since it's a question that's flawed from the outset, answers will naturally also be flawed, and thus, not really useful in our search to find wisdom and truth. So it's probably best if we abandon questions like this, though it's very easy to create other flawed questions. The search for truth and wisdom is fraught with many pitfalls, snares and dangers. We have to be very vigilant to avoid the majority of those, but we all fall into some from time to time. The wise course is to abandon those, and turn to more fruitful and useful searches and questions, that CAN lead us to light and wisdom. Being a Christian, and growing as such, ain't never been easy, folks! But it's always, always, always worth every effort we can give to the pursuit. It's the only way we can ever be truly satisfied. If we live or if we die, we're satisfied, for death is only the transition point where we are given to judgment, and if found acceptable, we profit from admission into Heaven. What greater goal could we possibly have than that?

[dtknowles]

God didn't "create evil" that's blaspheme. God creates creatures, spirits and peoples what they do after the fact is mostly up to them & the weight of those sins lies squarely on them, Imagine being so disconnected from reality that you blame your crappy actions on the fact of your birth & yet this is what people do to God to justify their evil deeds or evil created in the world by agents whom hate God.

So a person gets born into a tribe of cannibals' and you think it their fault if they kill other humans. The person does not get to pick the time, culture or place of their birth but it is the most powerful influence on a persons life. God picks and chooses who gets born where and when.

Tim

[dverna]

You know, in reviewing this thread, it comes to me that this is one of those unanswerable questions because the question itself is flawed. It ASSUMES that God DID create evil, which I believe to be a denial of all that God truly is. God is light, He is goodness, He is satisfaction unlike any that exists elsewhere. Nothing about Him is evil, nor did He ever create evil. Perhaps Lucifer was the originator of all evil. He is called the "Father of all lies," isn't he? But God never created evil. That comes from the terrestrial nature of man combined with the temptations from the Great Temptor, Satan himself. When he rebelled and challenged God Himself, evil was borne into existence, and God never had a hand in it. Satan created it of his own free will, and man follows it of his own free will, or gives his life and soul to God. There are no other choices. Just these two.

And since it's a question that's flawed from the outset, answers will naturally also be flawed, and thus, not really useful in our search to find wisdom and truth. So it's probably best if we abandon questions like this, though it's very easy to create other flawed questions. The search for truth and wisdom is fraught with many pitfalls, snares and dangers. We have to be very vigilant to avoid the majority of those, but we all fall into some from time to time. The wise course is to abandon those, and turn to more fruitful and useful searches and questions, that CAN lead us to light and wisdom. Being a Christian, and growing as such, ain't never been easy, folks! But it's always, always, always worth every effort we can give to the pursuit. It's the only way we can ever be truly satisfied. If we live or if we die, we're satisfied, for death is only the transition point where we are given to judgment, and if found acceptable, we profit from admission into Heaven. What greater goal could we possibly have than that?

But God created Lucifer. And, if you believe God knows the future, He knew Lucifer would rebel, and fall, and become Evil. Unless you want to go one step further and accept that "free will" affects the course of events. Which would mean Lucifer had free will and choose a path God had not expected. If you accept that free affects the course of events, then God does not know every detail of the future.

It is one of the reasons I lean to the concept of Open Theism. God know everything that has happened, everything that is happening, but not everything that will happen. Free will creates uncertainty in what will happen. God does not control free will and reacts to it.

[Blackwater]

Again, this is a question that really has no answer. We can believe what we will, but no real answer is available that will stand up to real scrutiny. But then again, this belief may well be a stepping stone to a higher understanding, not only of God, but of our own weaknesses and shortcomings as well. I have no problem with folks having such beliefs, but cannot accept it for myself. That's all.

Sometimes, I think we try to put more into our "thinking" than is good for us, or that will lead to real, useful wisdom and light. But then again, if we don't take questions as they come, we'll likely fall off and our study will dwindle and fail. This is why I have determined to keep my own considerations to a more limited and finite realm, where I can understand (hopefully) more fully. And I also avoid terrible dissensiions with other believers in the process pretty well, as well. Dissension never edifies any of us. God gave us the Bible to LEARN from, not to argue over and stir up hatred between us. Mark Twain said some 140 or so years ago, "Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers." When I get embroiled in an argument, I try to always remember that comment. I err just like the rest of us, and as St. Peter said, I'm "chief among sinners. But I don't have to STAY that way. We're all, inevitably, like a student pilot, who flies to a suitable altitude, and then intentionally stalls, in order to learn how to handle the crisis. Learning is a curious process, and I'm not sure any of us really learn HOW to learn. I keep trying, though. It's all I can do. I know I'll never be able to really understand God. My mortal mind simply isn't big enough. But I CAN understand the essentials, and some of the finer points, and that is sufficient unto the day when we'll be judged as to whether we're fit for Heaven, or not. It's like having a length limit for catching fish, and I just want to be judged big enough to keep. Ego and pride are to things that probably limit our growth more than most of the other factors put together, so I try to stay humble as well, so I CAN receive the light and truth when God deems me fit to do so.

Ain't bein' a Christian fun!