1894 Remlin .44 mag accuracy issue

[Shuz]

My new Remlin in .44 mag shoots 1" groups when loaded singly ,and 3 to 4" groups when a total of 5 are loaded in the rifle. The shooting is at 50 yards. Is this normal? If not what can be done to improve the accuracy with 5 loaded in the rifle?

[Drm50]

Never ran across that in a lever. Mag tube must be putting pressure on the barrel when loaded. You might try taking forend off and shooting it that way to see if it's involved. The only other thing would be barrel band exerting pressure when mag spring is compressed when loaded. I have a late 60s 94 in 44mg. Right now has a reciver sight 0ed for dead on at 60yds. I had a 3x scope on it to test loads and benched it cut clovers at 60yds.
I've had a couple others, all older JMs and they all shot about the same.

[DonMountain]

Is the recoil pushing the succeeding rounds bullets back into the casings increasing pressure on them so they don't hit in the same place? Maybe you need a harder crimp?

[W.R.Buchanan]

The loaded magazine is influencing the vibration of the barrel as you shoot.

With the mag empty the influence is still there but it is repeatable with every shot,,, as opposed to a loaded mag which is changing it's weight with every shot..

You should rest the fore end on your support hand on top of your rest, and pull the fore end back into you. Marlins like to have the fore end slightly loose (.01-.02" free play) so it can be pulled back into the receiver. Also there needs to only be contact with the gun at the Fore End Cap and Receiver. The rest of the fore end should not touch the magazine or barrel.

I was told these things by someone who actually knows how to get the best out of a lever gun and they have worked well for me.

Try the shooting part first and see if it makes a difference. The fore end should be free enough from the factory.

Randy

[NSB]

Randy is correct. Lever guns, Sharps, High Walls, etc are all prone to POI changes from any variation in how they sit on the rest, pressure put on the gun while on the rest, and being pulled back into the shoulder. You can prove this to yourself by deliberately changing things like that and then observing what it does to POI with your gun. Repeatability is critical. Until you learn all the nuances of your gun, try shooting it sitting up straight or standing and keeping any pressure off the gun while you shoot it. Keep in into your shoulder as consistent as possible and see what happens.

[samari46]

I've always wondered if you flare the mag tube where it goes inside the receiver if it would improve the loading of cartridges from the loading gate into the flared tube. Would have to experiment with the flaring. too much and wouldn't enter the hole in the receiver or too small wouldn't show much benefit when loading.Siliy idea??. Frank

[txbirdman]

There was a guy named Mic McPherson (I think) that use to specialize in tuning lever guns. Maybe you can find some of his articles on line and get some tips.

[rbuck351]

I have a JM 1894 Marlin in 44mag with scope that won't shoot jacketed factory ammo under 4" at 50yds and that is single loading. At least there is hope for yours. Not sure what to do about mine.

[Drm50]

I have 3 turn of century era Marlin 94s. 25/20, 32/20 and 38/40. None of them will shoot jackets for beans. The 25/20 & 32/20 shoot very well with cast. The 32/20 is exception. The 38/40 is just so so even with cast because bore isnt that good. At 50yds best is 4-5" group. I don't know if I'm going to get a rebore to 44/40 or off it. If they are original I loose interest in them.

[curioushooter]

I had a Marlin 1894 in Microgroove 44 Mag. Though I did observe some change in POI depending upon forend pressure, etc. it was nowhere near what you are observing. I am wondering if another factor is at play here. I did an extensive experiment gradually stripping the entire rifle down so it was just a receiver with no forend or mag tube attached to establish "true best accuracy." This was back in days where I would waste time with paper jacketed bullets (the only kind that rifle would shoot well at all). At 100 yards I never observed anywhere near 4" change in POI. Though I did observe smaller changes.

With my Remlin in 357 mag it shoots pretty much everything equally well so far. The accuracy is not what one would call extreme but at the ranges these rifles are meant to be used (under 150 yards) it is accurate and consistent enough for deer/coyotes/etc. I think this has something to do with the fact that the smaller bore of the 357 results in a thicker walled barrel.

One thing about all guns and hunting (which what I am assuming you are up to) is that the first shot from a cold barrel is what really matters. The rifle should be set for that condition. All the others in that tube are just bonus. See if it does anything with just one or two in the tube vs none in the tube.

[Shuz]

Well, I checked all the screws and found that 1 screw on the for-end was loose by about 1/2 a turn. I tightened up all the screws on the gun and will try again as soon as the weather clears up a bit.

[Shuz]

I tightened all the screws and tried shooting again with 5 rounds in the gun to start. Out of three 5 shot trials, the first shot was always 2" high at 12 o'clock at 50 yards, the second shot was randomly placed 1 higher and 1 lower and 1 on same latitude as first shot, all 2 to 3 inches from the first shot. The 3rd shot was always to the left of the first shot but from 1 inch to 3 inches away. The 4th shot was always 2 inches higher that the first shot and always to the left. It pretty much looks like it is always in the same relative position to the first shot on each target. The 5th shot was very random with 2 left and 1 right but all within roughly 1 inch of the first shot.
When I got back to my shop, I noticed that the screw that holds the endcap on the magazine is protruding from the tube and touching the bottom of the bbl. I removed the cap and took out the spring, and next I will shoot the gun and see what happens.
In any event I plan to shorten that screw so that it no longer touches the bbl. Whatcha folks think?

[beechbum444]

The McPherson’s book on Marlins is worth every penny...

[Shuz]

The Remlin shot pretty well yesterday with the end cap off so that the end cap screw no longer was touching the bottom of the bbl.
Loaded singly, the group measured 2.005" for 5 shots, with 4 in 1.8".
On a whim, before I file down the screw that holds the end cap on, I thought I would look at my other lever guns to see if the screw touches the bbl or if there was a space there. Low and behold, all my other levers, even the Winchester's 1894's in .44 mag, had that screw touching the bbl. Does anyone know if this is by design, or is it just the way it happens to be?
Perhaps Mic McPherson addresses this in his book that I don't have?

[Shuz]

Today I filed .020" off the end cap screw so that a piece of .007" card stock slides nicely between the tube and the bbl. I also shortened the mag tube spring so that about 4" sticks out of the tube before reassembly(cut off about 5") and put the Remlin back together. We'll see what the next trip to the range produces.

[quasi]

The McPherson’s book on Marlins is worth every penny...

Is that the book that he beds a Marlin 1895 stocks with RTV?!!

[bmortell]

my 1894 from a year or 2 ago the front cap screw looks like it would be touching the barrel but the barrel is milled to have a recess that the screw hovers in. I always hear everyones marlin is different, does yours have chamfered chamber mouth?

[samari46]

McPherson wrote a lot of accuracy articles for Precision Shooting and I'm pretty sure the Accurate Rifle. Sadly both magazines are long gone. Think it was him that did the rtv trick with a lever action.Think after he did his magic on the metal he opened up the inletting on the forend and used rtv as sort of a bedding compound. Google would probably be the best source of trying to locate a copy. Don't know if it is still in print anymore. With the widespread of the internet seems like published material is fast becoming or going the way of the dodo. Frank

[Shuz]

my 1894 from a year or 2 ago the front cap screw looks like it would be touching the barrel but the barrel is milled to have a recess that the screw hovers in. I always hear everyones marlin is different, does yours have chamfered chamber mouth?

I don't know for sure if the bbl chamber mouth is chamfered, but there is a slight beveling to the end of the bbl at the chamber mouth. So far RNFP boolits at an OAL of 1.628" feed and chamber easily.
My bbl does not appear to have a recess in it to accommodate an end cap screw such as mine.

[Larry Gibson]

Common accuracy modifications to tube fed lever actions back in the day were;

File the end cap screw down so it doesn't put pressure on the barrel.

Shorten the magazine spring so it sticks out the end of the tube 4 - 6".

Free float the barrel channel in the forend so it doesn't put pressure on the barrel. Some found a little pressure on the barrel in the first 1 -2" in front of the receiver worked best.

Relieve the top inside of the barrel band so it just doesn't touch the barrel.

In essence what your doing relieving as much pressure and tension as may be on the barrel from the forend and magazine.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Shuz: is your gun a Carbine or Short Rifle? IE; Barrel Band for Carbine or Fore End Cap for Short Rifle.

Typically most Short Rifles have Octagon Barrels and Carbines have Round Barrels, however the determining factor is generally the way the Fore End is held onto the gun..

Randy

[Shuz]

Shuz: is your gun a Carbine or Short Rifle? IE; Barrel Band for Carbine or Fore End Cap for Short Rifle.

Typically most Short Rifles have Octagon Barrels and Carbines have Round Barrels, however the determining factor is generally the way the Fore End is held onto the gun..

Randy

Randy,
My rifle does not look like either of those you showed. Rather, mine has a straight stock(no pistol grip) yet the fore end has a bbl band that kinda resembles your first photo, yet the band is at the end of the fore end. My rifle also has a bbl band near the front sight like the one in the first photo.
I shot the rifle at 50 yards again yesterday after I had made the tube spring cut down, and filed down the front bbl band screw that was impinging on the underside of the bbl. I loaded it up with 5 rounds each time and shot two 5 shot groups of 7.1g of Trail Boss and an MP-433-640L at .433,Saeco 8 and got 4" groups both times because of 1 flyer from an otherwise 3" group. Then I fired 2/ea 5 shot groups with the same boolit but with 9.0g of Green Dot and once again got 4" groups. I next fired a 5 shot group with 9.0g of Green Dot and a .432 dia. (same MP boolit) but also at Saeco 5 and got another 3" group. Looks like I gotta take the fore end completely off and see what is interfering with the bbl harmonics.

[bmortell]

what lead are you using mine would shoot 4" at 50yd with air cooled ww hardness, half that with heat treated.

[Shuz]

what lead are you using mine would shoot 4" at 50yd with air cooled ww hardness, half that with heat treated.

I used 10:1 (ww:lino) A/C that tests Saeco 8, (Bhn 14-15), which is considered hard by some folks. I can hear treat some to see if it makes any difference. This bbl is a Ballard type, not micro-groove but the twist rate is 1:38.

[JackQuest]

I 'accurized' my 1990 production Marlin 1894 44 Mag using the instruction in the following URL. I found almost all of the afore mentioned problems in that rifle. It did markedly improve grouping, particularly horizontal spread to under double the width of a bullet at 50 yards. Vertical stringing still requiring work. I think the fore end needs even more relief.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/chapter23.htm

That said, I have found that 200 grain JHP bullets (Hornady XTP) shoot much tighter groups than heavier cast loads. 2 things going on here: the 1:38 twist is just too slow for heavy bullets - from my preliminary testing 200 grains is light enough, somewhere around 240 grains is getting "too heavy" - which is a 20% increase. We won't go into the thinking or lack there of, at Marlin that continues to use this outdated twist.

I am looking for the following:

1 - Anyone who has shot either a Lee 200 grain 44 bullet, or a Lyman 427666 200 grain bullet in the 1894 Marlin. Were you able to get accuracy results close to jacketed bullets?

2 - Has anyone shot any 200 grain bullet with an oversized aluminum gas check sized to 0.432" to 0.433" to see if these will shoot straighter and with less bore fouling? I choose the aluminum GC because they will size onto non-GC bullets.

3 - Does anyone have a custom "light" 44 Mag mould that casts well oversized; 0.432" to 0.433" bullets?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Shuz: your gun is a Carbine.

Randy

[Shuz]

Yesterday I went back down to the range and shot at 50 meters. Looks like I'm getting close to where I wanna be. I shot 1/ea 5 shot group that measured 1.3" for the first 4 shots and then the 5th shot opened the group to 2.96". [smilie=1:The load was 10.0g of Unique behind a 275g MP-433-640. OAL was 1.602 and was still 1.602 on the 5th round before it was fired. Therefore, my boolits are not moving from recoil. The chrono showed an ES of 33 an avg of 1358 and an SD of 12. The only real difference between this load and others I fired on other days, was these were fired with gas checks applied in a .433 sizing die. Other designs I tried on previous days were plain based boolits.
I next fired the same load but with MP's penta points in the MP-433-640. The stats were basically the same, and the first 4 shots went into 2.1" around and in the 10 ring, but strangely, the 5th shot either went into exactly the same hole as one of the others, or, it missed the whole target, board and all! As I closely examined the holes, it looks like the last shot missed the whole target.!
More testing to be done with both gas checked designs and plain base designs. Stay tuned!:guntootsmiley:

[bmortell]

have you tried H110 or 4227 2400 anything like that or are you only interested in plinking loads

[Shuz]

have you tried H110 or 4227 2400 anything like that or are you only interested in plinking loads

Those powders will be tried next along with WC 820.

[JackQuest]

Shuz:

Regarding your 275g MP-433-640 bullets with gas checks sized to 0.433" (post #27) - did the swaging bands size down to 0.433" or did only the gas check get sized? Guess another way of asking this is - what was the as-cast diameter of the bullets?

[dverna]

Probably not what you want to hear, but if you miss the whole target, it is your bullets.

Buy a box of 240 gr jacketed bullets and see if the gun will shoot those. Once you establish the gun shoots well, you can start testing loads.

[Shuz]

Shuz:

Regarding your 275g MP-433-640 bullets with gas checks sized to 0.433" (post #27) - did the swaging bands size down to 0.433" or did only the gas check get sized? Guess another way of asking this is - what was the as-cast diameter of the bullets?

The as cast diameter was. 434 and were sized down to .433. The alloy is 1:10 (ww:lino). Saeco 8( Bhn 15-16.)

[JackQuest]

The as cast diameter was. 434 and were sized down to .433. The alloy is 1:10 (ww:lino). Saeco 8( Bhn 15-16.)

Thanks much, that helps fill in some blank spots.

I used a 240 gr bullet that was not sized, micrometer @ 0.433", lubed with liquid Alox, no gas check. Those did not shoot all that well. Yet 200 gr JHP shot quite well, so thinking somewhere between 200 grains and 250 grains is the point where the 1:38 twist won't stabilize the heavier bullets. The gas check now becomes the joker in the deck, but a gas check alone should not adversely affect accuracy unless there is leading. So the hunt continues.

[bmortell]

I don't believe the 1:38 twist problems mine with ballard rifling shoots a .82 length 300gr stable at 100yds its not amazing group but I haven't tried it hard cast which is where my best accuracy with 250gr has been had. but in mine 300gr not heat treated shoots better than 250gr not heat treated. but 250gr heat treated is the best I tried so far at maybe 3 moa 100yds if I had a scope. and this is PC at .4324 no gas check

[JackQuest]

I don't believe the 1:38 twist problems mine with ballard rifling shoots a .82 length 300gr stable at 100yds its not amazing group but I haven't tried it hard cast which is where my best accuracy with 250gr has been had. but in mine 300gr not heat treated shoots better than 250gr not heat treated. but 250gr heat treated is the best I tried so far at maybe 3 moa 100yds if I had a scope. and this is PC at .4324 no gas check

I would certainly be interested in the year of production for that rifle and what the twist rate actually measures. I have not seen concrete reporting of a twist different than the 1:38 found in the microgroove. Have seen some reports on the Ballard rifling, and also reports that it is not that much more deeply cut than the micro-groove.

Sleeving the barrel is not an option, replacing the barrel loses the makers marks, so in general have to find a bullet & load that works as-is.

You really don't realize how much you dislike shooting jacketed bullets until you cast for 2 or more calibers and find your cast loads don't work in that new project.

[bmortell]

mine was purchased new on 11/2017, I can see it does half a twist down the barrel so its definitely 1/38" and on slugs the riffling marks are 4 thousandths deep. 2 different stability calculators would put my 300gr at 1.3 or 1.4 stability so I don't know why people think it cant work. I just think you need magnum powders to increase velocity and therefore rpm. and use hard enough lead that the rifling can work to full effect.

I mainly shoot accurate 43-250AT which I partly designed changing it from the 240AT. I based the nose dimensions by seating a keith at different depths to determine what would feed good but not have as short of a nose as allot of 240's which gives less powder room. first I tried it ACWW PC .4324 and 23.5 imr 4227, and it was about 2 inches at 25yds, then I heat treated 50-50 ww/pb, 'I dont know how hard it is but it dont expand in water so its pretty hard' and 22.5 h110 does 3/4" at 25yds and 23.5 imr 4227 1"

at 100yds with my eyes and iron sights I can hit a 6 inch square plate every time, about 4" group. so I dont really know how accurate it really is because I feel my eyes max precision is about 4 moa.

my main complaint of the marlins is I cant get accuracy and expansion at the same time for hunting. id use my 300gr which would work without expansion regardless but I dont want to sight in for it because it needs single feed as its made to fill a SBH cylinder

[JackQuest]

bmortell:

Thank you for the additional information. I understand the desire for expansion, yet by all descriptions here it appears the harder the bullet the better the accuracy. The very best way to achieve both a hard bullet and expansion is JHP ammo, clear and simple. Sort of limits the options. Jacketed for game, cast for plinking.

More considerations to come, I think.

[bmortell]

nah I cant give in that easily, this is the only gun I loaded for where it requires harder than what expands well. but I can still get around it by making soft points, I tried ones where the front 80gr's or so is 1% tin 99% lead and the rest is 50-50 ww then I heat treat after PC'ing and of course the nose stays soft. problem was when seating them the soft portion bulged very slightly cause I guess my neck tension is pretty high, but I just need to try again with 5% tin for the nose which would expand well but be hard enough to seat.

[JackQuest]

bmortell:

I got into the copper toughened alloying thing posted elsewhere in these forums when I was casting for 45-70. Finally decided that an old injury to my right collar bone out-weighed the fun of shooting that mule and sold the rifle.

That said, have been thinking about casting up some Lyman 429421 (around 255 gr) from that alloy, getting some oversized aluminum gas checks, boring out the spare Star collet I have and seeing what happens. The collet has been sittting doing nothing for a decade at least so no loss if modified. Might make a good winter project.

BTW: for a long time have used a casting table built so I can water drop bullets right from the mold. If you don't size the bigger calibers right away after casting, well in a couple of days they have hardened and are very difficult to push thru the sizer! Thinking this might be the route to prevent excess leading of the micro-groove barrel and get accuracy similar to jacketed ammo.

[mortyg]

When I got my Marlin 44 it did not shoot well. I disassembled it and found the mag tube was putting pressure on the barrel band because the tube was touching an area on the receiver. I ground the receiver where the tube was touching the receiver and made sure I could rotate the tube without it touching. Since then it has shoot well.

[Shuz]

Well I took the Remlin out again yesterday and fired several boolits designs with Trail Boss, Green Dot and Unique. All boolits were sized .433, but when loaded on my Square Deal B, the crimp die must be swaging the boolit down some because the neck measurement was less than when the round came out of the seating die! Perhaps they were .432 or less? I'spose I could forego the Square Deal B crimp die, and run each round thru the Lee FCD so as to keep the original .433 dimension, but that is a step I'd rather not do. After all, I use this Square Deal B for 10 different .44 magnum revolvers from 329PD to model 69, and lots of Rugers, as well as 2 Winchester rifles and a Rossi 92, and I don't have to use the Lee FCD on them. I'm about ready to give up on getting this rifle to shoot at least 2" at 50 meters. Like Herman Cain said,
"This dog don't hunt!"

[Shuz]

Well, this bull headed German couldn't just give up! I tried a different load, and now I am consistently getting 5 shot groups that are
less than 2" at 50 meters. The "magic" load for this Remlin turns out to be 9.1g of Unique behind an MP-433-640L hollow point at Saeco 8 (10:1 alloy ww:lino) and .433 diameter sizing on the boolit. 1.595"is the OAL. CCI 300 primer and StarLine brass. The Square Deal B crimp die is evidently swaging the boolit down some because the neck at the bulge was .001 to .002 smaller in diameter than when measured right outta the seating die. Interestingly the same alloy casting a 265g Ranch Dog boolit that was .432 in diameter to begin with, and using the same 9.1g Unique, did not shoot worth sour owl manure, but the difference in weight was 217g vs 273g. After playing around with this rifle for quite some months now, I'm convinced that bbl and/or loading tube harmonics have a major impact on how these rifle shoot. All groups I shot were with 5 loaded in the tube to begin with.
Now I gotta work on that lousy trigger.

[Ramjet-SS]

This was a fun read I love those who will not give up and just keep working to improve ..... nice stuff.

[Tripplebeards]

Well I took the Remlin out again yesterday and fired several boolits designs with Trail Boss, Green Dot and Unique. All boolits were sized .433, but when loaded on my Square Deal B, the crimp die must be swaging the boolit down some because the neck measurement was less than when the round came out of the seating die! Perhaps they were .432 or less? I'spose I could forego the Square Deal B crimp die, and run each round thru the Lee FCD so as to keep the original .433 dimension, but that is a step I'd rather not do. After all, I use this Square Deal B for 10 different .44 magnum revolvers from 329PD to model 69, and lots of Rugers, as well as 2 Winchester rifles and a Rossi 92, and I don't have to use the Lee FCD on them. I'm about ready to give up on getting this rifle to shoot at least 2" at 50 meters. Like Herman Cain said,
"This dog don't hunt!"

When you had flyers I was wondering if you’re using gas checks. When I first started reloading with my 44 mag and 450BM I’d get random flyers and after looking at my pile of bullets I made I had some gas checks that went on crooked. This is a good read. I have a 1970 336 in 35 Rem and I did a ladder test on some 180 grain Speer hot cores for it when I first got it probably 10 years ago and the best group I shot was 7/8” at 100 yards. I haven’t really shot it since. I do plan on loading up some cast lee 200 grain pc and GC and giving it a whirl with a ladder test at 100 yards again soon. My 336 slugs at .357 and I plan on trying .3595” boolits. If it doesn’t shoot I’ll have to check out that book. My guess is if it shoots that good with J words it probably will shoot fine with Cast. I also had some large groups with my 44 mag using roll crimps . I switched over to the Lee Collett factory crimp die and My groups shrank ridiculously. I have the same Collett die in 35 room that I’ll be using usI have the same Collett die in 35 Rem that I’ll be using.

[Shuz]

When you had flyers I was wondering if you’re using gas checks. When I first started reloading with my 44 mag and 450BM I’d get random flyers and after looking at my pile of bullets I made I had some gas checks that went on crooked. This is a good read. I have a 1970 336 in 35 Rem and I did a ladder test on some 180 grain Speer hot cores for it when I first got it probably 10 years ago and the best group I shot was 7/8” at 100 yards. I haven’t really shot it since. I do plan on loading up some cast lee 200 grain pc and GC and giving it a whirl with a ladder test at 100 yards again soon. My 336 slugs at .357 and I plan on trying .3595” boolits. If it doesn’t shoot I’ll have to check out that book. My guess is if it shoots that good with J words it probably will shoot fine with Cast. I also had some large groups with my 44 mag using roll crimps . I switched over to the Lee Collett factory crimp die and My groups shrank ridiculously. I have the same Collett die in 35 room that I’ll be using usI have the same Collett die in 35 Rem that I’ll be using.

When I had the flyers, some had gas checks, and those that didn't, were at least, plain base by design. The load that shot so good yesterday was a plain base MP-433-640L; Miha's "light" version of the Lyman Devastator.
I did some measuring today and found that my Dillon SDB crimp die is compressing my boolits from .433-.434 as sized, to .432-.433. Evidently that amount doesn't matter. Perhaps the fact that the boolits are relatively hard at Saeco 8 (Bhn 14-15) is a factor?
I mounted a Nikon 3x9 on this rifle, and I am impressed with it's clarity and tracking ability. Next project will be to adress the extremely hard trigger pull.

[Tripplebeards]

Nikons are awesome! I have several...probably close to a dozen! Let me know how you do a trigger job and post pictures of it when you’re done. My pull is actually pretty decent but I’ve never tried my pull scale on it. The only bad thing is is it doesn’t have a safety except for the partial cocking of the hammer. I’d rather have the new style Remlin safety on my old 1970 rifle so I can quietly take it on and off instead of cocking my hammer with a loud click.


Here’s my 44’s with the lee collet style factory crimp used on Lyman devastator‘s. I see them deep just above the crimp groove. You can see when I crimped them it rolls my case on top of the boolit locking it in place. Like I said in my earlier post once I switched to this scrimp my groups dramatically shrunk in size. I never expected to shoot sub moa at 100 yards with my 77/44 and achieved it with two different loads after I changed to this crimp style.

https://i.imgur.com/t8II5kb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rkfTCL2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eCYnRPB.jpg

I was using a Nikon pro staff five 3.5x14 and my trigger is just under 2lbs.


I switched scopes on it a couple months ago and threw an older 3 x 9 Leupold on it. I swear I shot a tighter group when I sighted it in at 100 yards with my softer alloy sub MOA load that I shot a .8” previously with it. Two were touching and one was just slightly out!

I tell you it’s worth the $16 I paid for it on eBay. I know I’m not too hot with role crimping as I had a couple hundred feet per second variance on a few rounds. This crimp takes all the guesswork out of it and make a more even crimp and seal imo.

[Shuz]

Tripplebeards--Those pictures sure are nice and sharp! Looks like you are shooting Easter eggs!
As I mentioned earlier, I load my. 44's on a Dillon Square Deal B and this would require me to remove the crimp die and then run the rounds thru my Lee FCD. This is a step I'd rather not do.

[Maven]

Ray, Have you considered a taper crimp die, which you'd simply substitute for the crimp die on your Dillon SD-B? I use a Redding taper crimp die, which is adjustable, and have had "0" problems with bullet pull or accuracy in my Ruger SBH.

[Shuz]

Ray, Have you considered a taper crimp die, which you'd simply substitute for the crimp die on your Dillon SD-B? I use a Redding taper crimp die, which is adjustable, and have had "0" problems with bullet pull or accuracy in my Ruger SBH.

Paul,perhaps you are not aware that the Square Deal B will not accept dies that are the normal 7/8x14. If it would, I'd simply swap out the Dillon crimp die for the Lee FCD that I have. Perhaps I'm not aware, will the Redding die fit in the sSquare Deal B because it is smaller than standard?[smilie=1:

[Tripplebeards]

Might be worth buying a extra cheapie loading press and adding another step if it’s going to aid in your accuracy. I bought one and still have to take it out of the box I think I paid like $29 for it with the intent to exclusively size Cast bullets. My loading bench made out of particle board cracked a few years ago trying to size cast. So I picked up a lee to put on my metal bench out in the garage. Looks like they went up in price. I just did a quick Google and found one for 37 bucks. I’m sure they can be had cheaper...

https://eagleeyeoutdoor.com/lee-precision-reloader-single-stage-press-unlimited-clearance-ambidextrous/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzobZ8dnx5QIVyp-zCh20iw3dEAQYCCABEgI9IvD_BwE

[Maven]

No, I didn't know that Ray, but Tripplebeard's suggestion might be worth considering.

[glockky]

For using oversized bullets in 44 magnum I’ve had the best luck using a lee factory crimp die with the carbide sizer ring in the bottom of the die knocked out. This allows you to crimp without sizing the bullet down.
My JM 1894 likes bullets .4325”. I still haven’t been able to get stellar accuracy out of it though.

[Shuz]

I'm leaving for a 3 week vacation tomorrow, but when I get back, I'll try Tripplebeards and Maven's suggestions on the Lee FCD. I have one, but have never recalled using it. I didn't know it has a carbide sizing ring that can be knocked out. Is that an easy job, or does it require a press of some type? I have an old Herters 3M "Model Perfect" that I'll press into service on this one(pun intended).:roll:
glockky--How do you define "stellar accuracy"? Now... I'm not criticizing, just curious.:drinks:

[Tripplebeards]

You want the “collet” style part number 90930. The video link I posted below shows the other style lee factory crimps have a carbide sizer in them and either roll or taper crimp. The Collett style like I have is a big hollow tube and does not touch your case except for where it applies the crimp so there’s no resizing of your bullet or brass.


I just opened up the custom overrun $27 collet die I ordered directly from Lee in 35 Whelen. It’s a lot fancier in the $16 one I ordered for my 44 mag. My universal case expansion tool showed up today in the same type of Black plastic box. I sure like these over the clear plastic tubes Lee used to put them in!

https://i.imgur.com/iZlWnsd.jpg



If you go on my homepage and check out my photos I have posted a lot of groups from my Ruger 7744 and this scrimp style. I have several groups that were an inch and a half at 100 yards and another group that was .8”.

Before switching to this crimp I was basically minute of pie plate at 100 yards.



I found a video showing all three styles...

https://youtu.be/YWnw0sTBO8w

[Shuz]

I can hardly wait to get back home to see what kind of fcd I have.
That video was great! Thanks!

[Norske]

My experience as a range safety officer and as a Marlin shooter mkes me agree with the comment of putting your hand between the bag rest and the for-end. Also try putting the front sand bag under the receiver instead of the fore end. That works well with all my rifles with 2-piece stocks.
Try Elmer Keith's 44 Mag load of a heavily crimped 245gr bullet and 20 grains Allinant 2400 and a standard pistol primer.