reproducing the Buffalo Bore 38 S&W load

[Matt85]

Hello all, i recently purchased a Webley mk IV revolver and after trying pretty much every available 38 S&W ammunition i found the gun seems to love the Buffalo Bore ammunition. as much as the gun loves the ammunition, i do not love the silly price of $1.50 per shot! so ive decided to reproduce this ammunition with my trusty Lee press and the 125gr .360" SWC-FB boolits available at Rim Rock.

now i just need to figure out what powder to use. i have some load data for 125gr .357" jacketed boolits in my Speer #14 manual. its ideal powders are Herco and Unique for reproducing the velocity of the Buffalo Bore ammunition. my gripe with these is they are flake powders which means they wont be very fun to meter.

are there any other powder options for getting a 125gr boolit to around 950fps from my 4" barrel mk IV? i read in the archives here about using Winchester WSF as a nearly direct alternative to Herco.

-matt

[Outpost75]

If your Webley MkIV shoots like mine, I think you will find that light-weight, 125-grain bullets will not shoot anywhere near the sights, but will be very, very low. I also think that any powder that produces 950 fps with a 125-grain bullet, similar to .38 Special +P, will probably loosen up the gun in short order. The Buffalo Bore loads are intended for a sturdy, solid-frame revolver like the S&W Model 32 Terrier, not the Webley top breaks. You are correct that WSF or AutoComp approximate the burning rate of Herco. I use 4 grains of AutoComp with the 135-grain Speer Gold Dot bullet in my S&W Terrier, but I sure would not shoot it in the Webley!!!!

Instead, I would encourage you to use a standard weight bullet for the .38 S&W, but with a blunt, flat nose. Any of the soft swaged, 148-grain hollowbased wadcutters when loaded with a suitable fast-burning powder, like Bullseye, will slug-up to fill the larger cylinder throats and groove diameter of these revolvers. In the short .38 S&W case the HBWC bullets must NOT be flush seated, but instead be seated long and crimped in the top lubricating groove, to a minimum ctg. OAL of 1.16" (the same as a .38 Special wadcutter). A full wadcutter bullet does not need to expand to be effective and the soft lead wadcutter will rivet some upon striking bone and give good penetration.

A charge of 2.5 grains of Bullseye with the Speer 148-grain HBWC is a safe starting load, with 2.7 grains being the max not to be exceeded to stay within the SAAMI MAP for the .38 S&W cartridge. Otherwise use .38 Special wadcutter data which has been pressure tested at an OAL from 1.15-1.20" and does not exceed 14,000 psi for use in your Webley.

The Speer 146-grain DEWC bullet can also be used, but I have found it less accurate and prone to lead, being undersized. Cast bullets sized to .360-.362" are best.

Accurate has a variety of bullets designed especially for the .38 S&W cartridge if you want to cast your own, but you must first determine what weight bullet the sights are regulated for and choose accordingly. Most wartime guns are zeroed for the 178-grain Mk2 FMJ bullet and postwar commercial export guns for the more common 146-grain LRN.

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[Matt85]

Buffalo Bore and the Speer #14 loading manual both claim these loads are within 13000 CUP and are safe for Webley revolvers. my Webley mk IV puts the 125gr Buffalo Bore loads exactly to the sights and in a VERY small group (6 shots into one small ragged hole at 15 ft).

at this point ive tested only factory loads and the Webley shoots the Buffalo Bore 125gr and the common 145gr loads to POA. I tried a box of Matt's ammunition which is made to duplicate the old 38/200 cartridge and it shoots high.

I do need to correct the velocities though. I just tried two quick 3 round batches over a chronograph and the velocity was slight slower then I was told. the 125gr Buffalo Bore was moving at 850fps average and I tried 3 rounds of Fiocchi FMJ which recorded at 460fps average.

-matt

[Outpost75]

Buffalo Bore and the Speer #14 loading manual both claim these loads are within 13000 CUP and are safe for Webley revolvers. my Webley mk IV puts the 125gr Buffalo Bore loads exactly to the sights and in a VERY small group (6 shots into one small ragged hole at 15 ft).

at this point ive tested only factory loads and the Webley shoots the Buffalo Bore 125gr and the common 145gr loads to POA. I tried a box of Matt's ammunition which is made to duplicate the old 38/200 cartridge and it shoots high.

-matt

-matt

I am very skeptical of their pressure and velocity claims, but if they shoot to the sights then I would try them out a bit farther, 50 feet or so and see if the POI is still useable. If so, you are on your own nickle.

My experience with slower burning powders in the .38 S&W has been that unburned powder residue causes function problems until you get to higher pressures than you want...