Metric tool rant

[jimlj]

Why is it that a set of metric wrenches skip 18MM?
Why is it that a set of metric sockets skip 18 MM?
I've bought two sets of metric wrenches and do I have a 18MM wrench?? Nope. I have several sets of sockets. I have a grand total of (1) Craftsman 12 point non impact 18MM socket. I know if I put said socket on a rusty bolt or nut the corners get rounded off. Today I was working on my '95 F150. You need two full sets of tools, metric and standard to pull the transmission. Guess what size the cross member nuts are?? 18 MM. Guess what size impact socket I didn't have was?? 18MM. Guess what size impact socket you can't buy locally is?? 18MM. There were several inexpensive sets at the parts house. All skip 18MM. So what do I have to buy? A set of sockets that most will never get used, to get the 18MM socket I needed. How many times will I use a 1/2" drive 10MM impact socket? NEVER, but I now own one. I can twist those off with my 1/4" drive ratchet. I don't need a 1/2" impact wrench to do it. OK, rant over. The transmission is sitting on the garage floor and I own a 18MM socket. If anyone needs a 1/2" drive 10MM deep impact socket I'll make you a good deal on one.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Now I have to look at my metric sets and see if they came with 18 MM. Can you buy singles off the internet?

[Winger Ed.]

That might fall into the category of 'specialty tools'.

The best way to never have to use it again is to keep it.
If you get rid of it, within a few weeks, you'll be needing to buy another set to get one.

[condorjohn]

That might fall into the category of 'specialty tools'.

The best way to never have to use it again is to keep it.
If you get rid of it, within a few weeks, you'll be needing to buy another set to get one.

I believe this falls under "Murphy's Law"

[xs11jack]

Here is another one 16mm. I think sometimes it is the opposite end of the 18mm.
Ole Jack

[Finster101]

You mean the sets you purchased do. I have sets from three manufacturers and they are all 8mm thru 19mm with nothing skipped in between.

[Ickisrulz]

I bought an SK metric combination wrench set a year ago that included everything from 8 to 22 mm. There were no skipped sizes. As far as I have read, the SK socket sets being offered don't skip sizes either.

[Mal Paso]

LOL My Dodge truck was the first one to force 18mm on me. Before that there was nothing between 17 and 19mm.

Last transmission pull HD had a 200 piece Husky socket set marked down to $90 so I bought it. Has every mm even half mms. All it really means though, is the next tool I desperately need won't be a socket.

[enfield]

8mm 5/16 11mm 7/16 13mm 1/2 14mm 9/16 16mm 5/8 17mm 11/16 19mm 3/4 21mm 13/16 so ya gotta buy a 10mm and a 18mm big deal

[tomme boy]

I have a few sets up to 44mm and a bunch of larger ones that are in the range of 2"+. Have the same sockets in Standard also.

One of the places I worked at bought any tool you needed. And they let you keep it. Most of the machinery that I had to work on was German. So we had to have them.

The biggest pain was a coating machine that came in and the hydraulic and air lines and several other things had this stupid British thread. Hated that thing.

[samari46]

Have at least two socket sets in both SAE and Metric and mine did come with an 18mm socket. Having said that I have multiple sets also in both SAE and Metric. Plus wrenches in both flavors. One set is on a cart in the sun room and the other in the garage. Why multiple sets?. Bad legs and prefer working under the carport. At least I get a breeze there. Sockets both regular and deep for the impact gun. Suprised the house hasn't tanken a list to one side with all the tools I've aquired over the years.Frank

[FLINTNFIRE]

I will say using standard when it is metric does not convert perfectly and pulled a ford/mercury transmission some years ago inch size is asking for stripped heads do not waste your time use the metric wrench or socket , and yes I have worked on more then one thing where it had both standard and metric , I understand your rant , and have more then a few tools that are so seldom used.

[Skunk1]

Have a standard deep well craftsman set. It has the 18mm, have a plastic box kit I keep in the truck that’s craftsman and it has them also in deep and short sockets.

[Wayne Smith]

And I have and end wrench set that doesn't have a 9mm! Have to wonder about the people who package these things.

[Petrol & Powder]

There are a few metric sizes that are really close to one of the SAE sizes, so some sets sold in the U.S. market skip those sizes in the metric sets.
I don't believe 18mm is one of the metric sizes that has a SAE twin, so I'm not sure why that size would be left out.

Speaking of metric tools, there was a time when metric tools were expensive and hard to acquire in the U.S.A. It was not uncommon for people to purchase only the exact metric tool they needed for a job because of the expense of an entire set was hard to justify. It was also common to scavenge junk yards for the tool kits that came with Japanese and German cars to acquire metric tools. It took some time for the price of quality metric tools to equal with SAE tools.

Fortunately the price and availability of metric tools is now equal to their SAE counterparts.
However, the OP's rant about the mixing of metric and SAE fasteners on the same vehicle is a valid complainant. Some of the American cars & trucks from the late 1980's and early 1990's were really bad in terms of mixing metric and SAE on the same vehicle.

[DocSavage]

Back in the 60s and 70s my uncle was on a VW Beetle binge,so he went out and bought a set of cheap metric sockets every size but the one size that it seemed almost every bolt needed 13 mm. He squawk,curse and swear about it. So at one point I suggested he go to Sears and get a standard and deep 13 mm socket,nope wouldn't do it too expensive. The 2 new sockets would have cost like 3 times what he paid for the el cheapo socket set I just walked away shaking my head.

[jcren]

I tracked down a ratcheting box end 18mm just for those top crossmember brace bolts on my 95 f150. Worth every penny.

[Smoke4320]

Get as Metric adjustable wrench:) :)
or go to your local auto parts house and ask for am 18MM spanner and watch the expressions

[JBinMN]

I have run into the 18mm problem often enough myself... Just had to go get the individual ones to replace the missing ones in the sets.

My rant similar to this, is when they attach something that requires both Standard & Metric to R&R the part. Having to change back and forth multiple times.
Particularly when the part to remove or install has some of the bolts & nuts are in hard to reach places, and ya don't find out that it is metric or standard until you try about umpteen times to get the wrench or socket to fit, & then find out it is not the one you expected it to be.

Find out it is metric when you tried to use std. & the opposite as well...

Truly annoying & it is why I know a lot of folks who would like to punch the designers/engineers for their making something difficult when it need not be difficult.

BTW, ever notice that it seems like more & more you have to remove the spare tire from the trunk to change a headlight & other such ridiculous parts that need to be removed in order to replace one simple part. Removing the battery to change the headlight bulbs on many new vehicles would be one good example. Why they have to attach/bracket so many parts to the water pump is another.

Yep... I am among those who would like to punch the designer/engineers myself, sometimes, for this idiocy. You know they don't work on their own vehicles when they do this stupid stuff...

Next?
;)

[jimlj]

I have to admit my tools are not Snap-On or SK sets. I don't make my living as a mechanic so I never bought a $300 wrench set. I guess I don't make my living as anything anymore as I'm happily unemployed. (retired) I learned when working as an electrician to buy the best tools available and they always served me well.

The metric sockets I purchased from NAPA about 20 years ago before they went to overseas production. They are fairly good quality but for some reason skipped 18MM. I purchased a set from Home Depot (I think Husky brand) and it also skips 18MM. The Craftsman set I have does include a 18MM 12 point socket. I bought a set of Stanley deep sockets from Wallyworld that skips 18MM. I have a set of Stanley wrenches that skips 18MM. I thought I'd just lost it so I went to HD and bought a full set of Huskey wrenches without looking at sizes included. The dang thing skips 18MM. Yesterday while removing the transmission I knew the 12 point socket would round of the corners of the rusted self locking nuts so I went to buy a 18MM impact socket. None of the local parts houses (NAPA, AutoZone and Oreilly's) had one. All had "sets" that skipped the 18MM socket. One had a set that included what I needed but also included several small sizes that I will never use.

My complaint about needing two full sets of tools is even pointed out in the Ford factory service manual. Step by step it tells what size wrench to use. Some are SAE and some are metric. I feel bad for the poor fool who gets the vehicle where Ford runs out of a fastener part way through the build. "Use a 9/16th wrench on one of the torque converter bolts and a 13MM wrench on the other three."

[EDG]

I found my missing metric sockets at Home Depot.
One brand was Blackhawk and the other was Husky.
Be happy metric sockets don't have a metric drive.

[Kraschenbirn]

In the late '70s, I ran the parts department for the U.S. distributor of KG Hoes GMBH construction equipment (now owned by Dynapac) and mentioned to one of the factory service reps that I needed a good set of metric sockets. I was riding a Yamaha at the time and the Japanese tool kits back then really sucked! Couple of weeks later, Arno (the service rep) had a crate of ZF transaxle parts airfreighted in for a warranty job on a paving machine and, lo and behold, in the bottom of the crate was a full set of 'industrial-grade' metric sockets and combination wrenches, all the way up to 30mm. Asked Arno what I owed him and he and said it was payback for my loan of a shotgun and shells so he could shoot trap and clays in his free time. Odd thing, though, those sockets fitted all my 1/2"-drive handles and extensions...still got that set, btw.

Bill

[georgerkahn]

jimlj -- I had a "frozen" steering wheel on my Lund boat a few years ago, and (sorry, I do NOT recall the exact size) trying both SAE and metric sockets, they were ALL too loose to grip, or, too small to get on fitting. I had a "brain flash" and cut a strip of brass shim stock, which I wrapped about the fitting; had to lightly tap-tap-tap the socket on -- but it did fit. Annnd... it worked (for me). It was one of those funny-looking nuts with a reduced segment at top, but it did not have (my initial thought) say, a nylon inside. I do not know if my "trick" would have worked for you, but... something to keep in the back of your mind next time you need a socket, not having exact size on hand. A local auto parts store has it in thicknesses from 0.0010" through to 0.0315" -- so, one can borrow their micrometer or calipers from the casting bench to ascertain what width needs to be added; cut and wrap around a layer; and -- hopefully have the success I had.
geo

[dangitgriff]

18mm?
Ya mean 23/32”?
Why don’t they make an SAE wrench/socket in that size?
Same dang complaint as “no 18mm in this metric set” ...ain’t it?
While we’re at it, why in the sam hill did the original bores measure anything other than perfectly rounded 10ths or hundredths or quarters of an inch?
.22? Why not .20?
.25? We have a winner!
.30? We have a winner!
.32? Why not .30?
.35? We have a winner!
.36? Why not .35?
.38? Why not .40? Winner!
.45? We have a winner!
.50? We have a winner!
Drives me nuts the calibers are taken out to the thousandths of an inch! Makes it so much harder to standardize the bore diameter between different manufacturers.
R/Griff

[MT Gianni]

Harbour Freight impact set I bought this summer has one. You can also buy individual sockets.

[Winger Ed.]

BTW, ever notice that it seems like more & more you have to remove the spare tire from the trunk to change a headlight & other such ridiculous parts that need to be removed in order to replace one simple part. Removing the battery to change the headlight bulbs on many new vehicles would be one good example. Why they have to attach/bracket so many parts to the water pump is another.

There's several things going on-
Engine compartments are as small as possible to have more room in the passenger compartment for the same size car.

Cars are designed for the factory to assemble them as quickly as possible- some things are put together while its upside down at the plant.

Some things are made to discourage home or small shop mechanics to work on, or require special tools,
thus pushing more work back to the dealership shop. Most of their money is made in the mechanic bays- not the show room.

Planned obsolescence is build in to make a car worn out beyond economical repair
at a point a little ways down the road after the warranty expires.

If they could be cheaply rebuilt, better maintained, or lasted forever--- the new car sales would drop about 60%.
(Example: How many grease fittings does your new car have compared to ones from the 60's?)

[shaune509]

About 30 years ago a friend and I were walking the tool dept. of the Lowes store, clerk asked if he could help find some thing. We being smart a__ young 20 somethings asked for a "left handed metric crescent wrench", he spent 10 minute looking before asking his supervisor who then spent 10 more before we said we come back latter. Best hour ever spent wasting time before going to the movies.
Shaune509

[brass410]

40 years in the trade as a journeyman, and I can say with complete confidence now, it doesn't matter what kind of tool, how many of them you have, or what the job is, as long as the job is 1. frustrating
2. inconvienent
3. in the worst possible place
These three things must be met! you will never ,ever, have the right tool or one that will work, when you need it. THATS Murphy's law for repair,

[Mal Paso]

40 years in the trade as a journeyman, and I can say with complete confidence now, it doesn't matter what kind of tool, how many of them you have, or what the job is, as long as the job is 1. frustrating
2. inconvienent
3. in the worst possible place
These three things must be met! you will never ,ever, have the right tool or one that will work, when you need it. THATS Murphy's law for repair,

True but if you get out your largest tool and set it beside the job, to let it know you are serious, things often go smoothly. A 4 foot pipe wrench is one of my favorites.

[nicholst55]

While I certainly feel the OP's pain, Home Depot and Wal Mart both list 18mm combination wrenches. Now, I can't speak to the quality of same, but they DO list them. So does Amazon, if your need is less immediate.

[retread]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-1-2-Drive-Metric-12-pt-Shallow-Socket-Any-Size-Metric-MM/283596758588?hash=item4207af1e3c:m:m3eR0z8gy_XT0Ax CkyYvgZg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAFTSMAN-USA-1-2-drive-DEEP-SOCKETS-12-pt-SAE-OR-MM-SIZES-NEW/303228593882?hash=item4699d526da:m:m4L10KApDfJkZbY fHThghqA

Top is shallow and the lower one is deep. Not too bad on prices

[retread]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAFTSMAN-USA-1-2-drive-DEEP-SOCKETS-12-pt-SAE-OR-MM-SIZES-NEW/303228593882?hash=item4699d526da:m:m4L10KApDfJkZbY fHThghqA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Capri-Tools-Deep-Impact-Socket-1-2-Inch-Drive-6-Point-Metric-10-to-24-mm/263365943426?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d51d56082:m:ms7BUsfhEkOFUiT2d0LUyNQ

Impact sockets 18MM

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I too have run into bolts on a Ford pickup that were 'MERICAN' on one end and 'FERIGN' on the other. Yeah calibers are really annoying, why are 45 rifles 458(sort of) and 45 pistols 452(sort of), then there's 9mm/355-356, 357 for 38-357 and 358 for more. I also ran into the 16mm and 18mm socket issues before online shopping, EBAY, Amazon. I would stop at the local auto shop and have them order from their suppliers.

[Finster101]

Standard and metric are the least of the worries. What about torx, inverted torx, square drive and what ever the fastener suppliers come up with next. After turning wrenches professionally for over forty years I could have paid for a nice house. When I'm gone my wife will get pennies on the dollar for what I have invested. Sad but just the way it is.

[john.k]

"Some things are designed to discourage home mechanics".......how about everything is designed to prevent home mechanics touching it.I have always bought little Ford diesel pickups...... on the most recent ,its impossible to remove the starter or oil filter without the vehicle on a hoist......of course the ultimate was the little Benz "Smart" cars....even the fasteners were unique,and without a set of benz tools ,nothing could be done.......that one didnt go well for Benz,better though than for those who paid gazillions for dealerships for "tomorrows car"....

[bob208]

I have done mechanic work over the years. I have most everything some in sets some bought as needed. most craftsman. some s-k some proto. I even have a set of wrenches and sockets in whitworth from when I had a Norton motorcycle.

I have bought tools at stores at auctions yard sales and junk shops.

[samari46]

Unknown to me when I had to replace the starter on my wife's chevette years ago. Started out with a set of inch stuff and soon had to drag out my metric stuff as half the bolts were a mix of both. Two tool boxes and wrenches and sockets all over the driveway. Frank

[alamogunr]

I don't have a lot of wrench type tools but I still have the first set of metric combination wrenches I bought so I could do minor repairs on my first new car. It was a 1965 VW bug and I was just out of college. The wrench set was Proto 10mm to 19 mm. Off hand, I forget which size was missing but probably it was the 18mm. I've added other sizes since then along with metric sockets. I've got sockets in 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" drive, but not a complete set of any, just a few duplicates.

I bought my grandsons a set of combination wrenches and sockets along with a few screwdrivers, pliers, etc. Not a top quality set but enough to allow them to start doing minor repairs on just about anything. I had done the same for my sons when they were about the same age. It stopped my tools from disappearing.

I haven't bought wrenches and sockets in the last 15-20 years. I don't crawl under vehicles any more. I probably would if it didn't hurt so much when I crawled out.

[Thundarstick]

I ran into the 13mm quandary years ago. I've never used a 13mm on a Japanese product, but if you go German your going to use every size on the meter stick! The very reason we should have gone metric years ago! I'd almost rather work on an all metric machine, as as American machine cobbled from parts made all over the world! BTW, do any of you use spline drive tools? I've pitched out nearly all my 6 and 12 sided stuff and replaced with spline drive tools.

[Frosty Boolit]

At least you are working on a decent vehicle. I can't believe how many of those 25yr+ trucks are still riding around up north here, albeit without wheel arches and possibly some floppy bedsides/fenders.

[dangitgriff]

At least you are working on a decent vehicle. I can't believe how many of those 25yr+ trucks are still riding around up north here, albeit without wheel arches and possibly some floppy bedsides/fenders.

My ‘96 Silverado was bought in 1998 and it’s still my daily driver with 292,000 miles on it. [emoji106]

[GARD72977]

I hate all metric tools.......

[KCSO]

Could be worse in the old days I drove a TR4 and had to have British Standard tools too. My sone gave me a socket set in 1999 and it had 16 and 18 in it so I never noticed that my Craftsman set left the 18 out.

[Petrol & Powder]

Could be worse in the old days I drove a TR4 and had to have British Standard tools too. My sone gave me a socket set in 1999 and it had 16 and 18 in it so I never noticed that my Craftsman set left the 18 out.

You've never really cussed in a garage until you've encountered Whitworth standard fasteners. :smile:

[Mal Paso]

You've never really cussed in a garage until you've encountered Whitworth standard fasteners. :smile:

How about left hand Whitworth? Water Pump Rover 2000 TC.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't know why the Brits have to be different but they sure are.

[woodbutcher]

[smilie=b: And if you really want to have some fun,try changing the heater core on a Ford Torus(spelling?).You have to remove the entire dash to do it.WHY?Because that(the dash) is the first thing that is installed fully assembled in the body.IIRC,the flat rate manuel(spelling) shows 16 hours labor to RandR.What a PITA.Yeah I know,my spelling sucks.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Finster101]

I don't know why the Brits have to be different but they sure are.


Why do the Brits like warm beer? Because Lucas builds refrigerators.

[Petrol & Powder]

Why do the Brits like warm beer? Because Lucas builds refrigerators.

Ah- the Lucas Electric jokes; some of my favorites.

•The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."
•Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit.
•Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper.
•Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.
•The three position Lucas switch - Dim, Flicker and Off.
•The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics.
•Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices
•Lucas systems actually uses AC current; it just has a random frequency.
•"I have had a Lucas pacemaker for years and have never had any trou..."
•If Lucas made guns, wars would not start.
•Back in the 70's, Lucas decided to diversify its product line and began manufacturing vacuum cleaners. It was the only product they offered which did not suck.
•Q: Why do the British drink warm beer? A: Because Lucas makes their refrigerators
•Alexander Graham Bell invented the Telephone. Thomas Edison invented the Light Bulb. Joseph Lucas invented the Short Circuit.
•Recommended procedure before taking on a repair of Lucas equipment: Check the position of the stars, kill a chicken and walk three times clockwise around your car chanting:" Oh mighty Prince of Darkness protect your unworthy servant.."

[john.k]

My tractor made in 1964 has a Lucas starter and a Lucas generator......both still the original ones that came with the tractor....all the older Lucas stuff is dated.........the other day some young expert told me oil only lasts 5 years,then you have to dump it...even in a sealed container........too bad for all the drums of oil I got from work 20 years ago.....the young know everything,which is why they can have days off school to climate protest.

[Finster101]

Those are great! Some of them new to me as well.

[kenton]

"Metric" means very little as far as wrench sizes are concerned. DIN is the German standard, JIS is the Japanese standard, and ISO is the "international" standard.

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/bolts/metric-bolt-head-size.aspx

And of course if you are buying truck loads of bolts you can do what ever you want. There are 7mm drive for Allen screws on the brake calipers on my wife's car despite those not being a standard for anyone but Ford. [smilie=b:

[bob208]

you forgot one Lucas prince of darkness

[William Yanda]

"(Example: How many grease fittings does your new car have compared to ones from the 60's?)"
Ya mean its not because they are built using space age materials?

[Petrol & Powder]

The debate about components made without grease fittings goes back to the appearance of sealed components.

It breaks down exactly like this: If the component has a grease fitting AND the owner/operator uses those fittings to properly service the component - it will have a long life.
However, a sealed component will outlast a non-sealed and neglected component.

Those of us that were taught to maintain equipment and actually DID maintain equipment, suffered from the introduction of sealed components. However, the majority of people that neglect maintenance actually benefit from the "maintenance free" designs.

Those of us that have grease guns, know how to use them and actually do use them are in the minority.

[Smoke4320]

I love my grease gun... it takes 45's and is illegal in CA& NY as it will take over 10 pumps
So guess its an assault grease gun

[edp2k]

Harbour Freight impact set I bought this summer has one. You can also buy individual sockets.

THIS +1.
GM brake caliper bolts are 18mm.
Get the 6 point set, deep and not so deep.