Virgin Casting session!

[kmw1954]

Today I couldn't wait any longer and jumped in with both feet. I was a little bit breezy outside today so it seemed to take forever to heat up the pot and melt the ingots. After I got to what I thought was a good temp I wax flexed the pot and looked good to me. Then dropped the ladle into the pot to heat it and the pot just about froze up so I put the cover back on and let it cook. After back to a good temp in went the mold and again pot freeze! Finally got everything up to what I thought was a good temp I took a deep breath and poured my first boolits!

It was UGLY! There was lead everywhere. The sprue plate was covered, lead pouring down both sides. I stood there looking at it thinking to myself, What an Amateur!

With a little time the technique improved and things weren't so messy and the sprue puddle became smaller. Then I started getting incomplete fills and ones tat looked like they were separated. Like a start and stop fill Nice thing is that they all looked filled out and well formed and dropped pretty easily from the mold. Though somewhere about half way thru I was getting bullets that looked like the mold didn't close squarely and the lube groove didn't line up evenly.

I didn't get to cast a lot of these but by the time I was about done for the day they were starting to come out pretty nicely. Keepers I believe! I have some pictures but I need the wife to resize them as they won't upload to the forum.

So a huge thank you to all of you that helped get me this far!

[redhawk0]

Congrats....now you'll be hooked like the rest of us....I do suggest you turn up your pot a little more. You shouldn't freeze the pot just by putting the ladle in it. You didn't say what pot you have...I use a lee...and the dial of 1-10 is a bit vague to say the least. I built a PID temperture controller...and now I can say with certainty what my cast temp is. I like between 725 and 750.

redhawk

[Eddie17]

Try a hot plate to pre heat your mold.
Works for me.

[country gent]

When its cool and breezy / windy use a piece off plywood Styrofoam or other wide piece and create a wind break it helps a lot to maintain heat and control. When ladle pouring keep the ladle in the pot when not pouring. And last:
When casting cast, cast at a brisk pace and maintain the pace. When your sorting / inspecting then sort. Don't try to do both at the same time.

[JBinMN]

Keep at it. It may take a bit of time, but you should come up with a good method that suits you in no time.

Kind of like learning how to ride a bicycle. Even if ya fall down a bit, get back up & try again..

Let 'er Buck! & don't let the horse that bucked ya win!
;)

Looking forward to more of your adventures!
:)

[kmw1954]

Some quick answers to questions. The pot is a Stainless sauce pan of about 1qt. and the nest I can tell it will hold about 15lbs when 3/4 full. Heat source is a 1500watt hot plate and it is turned all the way up. I do have boxes set up around the sides as wind brakes. It will get everything hot enough, it just takes awhile.

Rhythm and pace along with co-ordination I've learned goes a long way. Hope to get out and try this again later in the week.

[lightman]

It sounds like you are off to a good start. Many of us did not do as well on the first attempt. Looking forward to seeing your pictures.

[StuBach]

Kudos and welcome to the obsession.

[kmw1954]

Thank you everyone for the comments and encouragement!

Thought I put this in the Cast Boolit sub-forum only to see it's in Equipment so if a mod would like to relocate this topic to the appropriate forum that would be good too.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

My first casting attempt was a disaster.
Zero keepers. Wrinkles galore' due to cold mold.
I had no idea about temperature and casting rhythm.

One little hint, don't worry too much about lead getting all over...That is much better than too small of a sprue puddle, which it sounds like you found out. Once you start getting real good, I would recommend striving for leaving as large a Sprue puddle as possible...that helps the mold keep up temperature.

PS, I moved your thread

[Cast_outlaw]

Also try making a metal or stainless ring around your pot to help focus heat up the sides will also prevent cold wind from affecting the sides where you are loosing heat

Good luck and cast em like you mean it
Best of luck
Cast outlaw

[kmw1954]

My first casting attempt was a disaster.

PS, I moved your thread

Yes I had visions of all sorts of catastrophes So I have to say I am quite pleased with my first attempt and I owe much of this success to all of you here. Yes I have been paying attention folks!!! Sometimes it really pays to just shut up and listen.

JonB thank you for moving this to the correct place.

[kevin c]

Wisconsin, eh? Can you cast indoors, maybe in your garage? Maybe put up a wind screen around the pot or work area? I like the mold preheating idea; works for me even in nice weather here in California.

[kmw1954]

kevin c, yeup. the frozen tundra! Actually yesterday it was very pleasant outside other than the wind was blowing about 20mph with strong gusts. As to a wind screen, yes I built on out of cardboard and it wrapped around 3 sides. Also the pot has a lid that really helps retain the heat while melting ingots or trying to bring the temp up.

Still just at the beginning of the learning curve and there is a long way to go. But I'm in no hurry.

[kmw1954]

Last night before bed I went in and measured and weighted those bullet I had cast and here are the results. Sizes were from .3565" to .358; with most at .357. Weight was a bit more wide spread. Lightest was 105gr and the heaviest 108.4gr... Is this normal, to be expected? How does the lead alloy makeup effect final weight? Guess I'm asking is this weight normal for COWW to be that much heavier in what is supposed to be a 102gr bullet mold?

[Conditor22]

Asking questions/for help is the quickest way to get good results. The search box in the upper right of the forum and the stickies are a wealth of information posted on CB.

You didn't mention what alloy you were casting with. To little tin or too soft will take longer to come to temperature. (the softer the alloy the higher the melting point)

If you have a gas camp stove it might work better/faster than a hotplate

Weight can be effected by hotter or colder alloy or mold as can size

your big size differences could be caused by not having the mold fully closed of some of the casts.

Knowing the temperature of the lead in your pot is important (and will make your life much easier).

2 options:
1) Get/Make a PID (ever since I made mine Id never go back to a thermometer)

2) Get a casting thermometer

Make sure your mold is oil-free (scrub well with dish soap and an old toothbrush)
sometimes a little smoke from a wood match or butane lighter helps to get smooth (purdy) boolits

Getting a hotplate (apr $5 at a thrift store) with a piece of metal on it to pre-warm your mold is also helpful.

I'm an addict, I have a venting system set up in my garage so I can cast/powder coat year-round

This is an easy way to post pictures ---> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?375622-Posting-Pictures-using-IMGUR

first time you load and shoot one of your own boolits you will become seriously hooked :)

[robg]

A bit of metal as a partial lid helps keep the temp up on the pot .just think of the money you'll be saving !its a slippery slope .

[kmw1954]

Condditor22, Thanks for the lesson.

I have been on this forum for 3.5 years and others for many years longer than this, I am well aware of the stickies and search functions that all forums have. I use them very frequently as a matter of fact.

Yes as discussed previously a gas stove may work better than my hot plate but the hot plate is what I have at the moment. I also believe in my last post I mentioned Clip On Wheel Weights, COWW's, is what I am using. As for a thermometer I have asked here and elsewhere about them and have received very mixed responses. Many stating, Don't Bother.

It's great that you admit your addiction to the endeavor and have taken it as far as you have. At this point I don't have the money, space or interest to take this into full production. So I will muddle along with my simpleness and enjoy what I'm doing.

And I will repeat, I wouldn't be this far without the help of all of you. Thanks!!!

[mdi]

I've seen it written often; "The only way to learn to cast boolits, is to cast boolits". You can read volumes on the subject but when it comes right down to it, actually doin' it is when you learn the most. Practice, practice, practice...

[kmw1954]

Got out to try again today and found I just couldn't get the alloy hot enough. Everything came out with wrinkles so instead of fighting it I just shut it down. Time to invest in an electric pot.

[super6]

Got out to try again today and found I just couldn't get the alloy hot enough. Everything came out with wrinkles so instead of fighting it I just shut it down. Time to invest in an electric pot.

Let the games begin!

[Bazoo]

The lee magnum melter is my choice of pots. It holds a heap of alloy which helps keeping a good cadence.

If you made decent bullets the first go round and had issues the second go round, I'd say your issue was not keeping the mould hot enough. Try again but this time try casting faster and with letting excess alloy run down the side of the mould and back into the pot. This keeps the mould hotter and the sprue plate hot. You can get the mould hot but have the sprue plate not hot enough and get wrinkles.

Having the alloy hotter helps you keep your mould hot, so a melter would help. Your probably running just in the edge of the good temperature range. You Get a feel for it as you do it. I don't use a thermometer.

Another issue you may have is a change in ambient temperature. Casting at 50 vs 80 takes a different cadence to keep the mould to temperature.

What I do, to bring the mould to temperature is let it rest in the alloy for about 2 minutes. I put my dipper in the alloy, and put the mould in the alloy but resting on the dipper handle. Not submerged (that causes lots of grief), but about 1/4 submerged with the sprue cutter touching alloy. Use a rubber band to keep the handles together so you don't get alloy creeping between the blocks. This gets the mould somewhat over hot. Not an issue. Cast with it, let the sprues cool longer, let it cool 30 seconds between dropping the bullets and the next cast to help bring the temp down as needed. The mould temperature will regulate out. This is easier for me than bringing the mould up to temperature by casting.

Your variation in diameter is likely due to not getting the mould closed the same each time. The variation in weight is likely partly due to this but also from normal differences. Of a hundred bullets, the 60 in the center will likely be the most consistent in weight. As the mould heats it changes in size and thus weight. Head pressure makes a difference in weight too. As in, a small sprue vs a large sprue vs letting the ladle empty over the sprue plate will all make different weight bullets.

[kmw1954]

From the searches I've done so far it looks as if Titan Reloading has the best prices on Lee pots and so far believing the Magnum would be the best choice for what I'm doing.

[kmw1954]

Weather was nice today so I gave it another go. Set up everything the same as the last session only I put one or two ingots less into the pot and started the same way again. First 10 or so pours went right back into the pot and then started saving them. Dropped enough to have a nice small pile and then added another ingot. While that was melting and heating up I did a quick sort thru and threw back all the wrinkled ones, which was about half. This session I quickened up the pace and right away was seeing good bullets. After a while I was noticing frosties landing on the towel so I slowed down a bit.

So today I learned a little more about casting science and the tools I am using and seen first hand how important tempo is with these small bullets and an aluminum mold.

I kept a total of 90 very nice looking Boolits and the rest will go back into the mix. It's getting better!

Two things I noticed today that really stood out. 1. all throughout this session I was getting bullets that the mold didn't close properly. There was a mismatch between the two sides and 2. towards the end I started getting bottoms that left flashing out of the top of the mold. Suggestions? Remedies?

[Victor N TN]

What works for me... I use an electric bottom drop pot. I cast in the garage. It's out of the immediate weather, but can still breathe for ventilation. When I turn on the pot, I set the mold blocks across the pot to heat at the same time. Use a thermometer to see when the pot gets to casting temps. If you take a break or have supper, put the mold blocks back on top of the pot. Put the thermometer back in the pot and turn the temp down a bit. When you come back out, just crank up the heat and watch the thermometer. Soon you'll be ready to go. Good luck.

[Bazoo]

Bullets with flashing and with separation lines is most likely not closing the handles all the way, or closing the mould with a speck of lead between the blocks. If it's a speck of lead, you just take a stick and pick it off, mould hot or cold. Normally hot is easier to me. Be careful not to round the edge of the cavity, you can damage it even with wood if you use enough force. Don't drop bad bullets back into the pot from the mould, this will cause a splash on the block faces.

If it's the blocks not closing all the way, you can help it by lightly tapping the handle extention on that side to seat the halves. I have a couple lee moulds that need this. Or you can close the mould holding it sideways and that might help enough.

Another thing I've noticed is that if the mould seems hard to open, it can put a line on the bullets. Twist them sorta if you have to force the handle to open.

[Victor N TN]

For cleaning the vent lines on the faces of the mold blocks, I use wooden tooth picks.

[Bazoo]

Actually, I mis-spoke. I've taken to using a pencil for removing lead specks ever since I started lubing the sprue plate with one. It works great.

[kmw1954]

So I tried to find a picture of the mold and the best I can do is this link and then the 4th picture, https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=lee+356-102-1r&qpvt=Lee+356-102-1R&FORM=IGRE

as you can see there are no round alignment pins and no vent lines in this mold.

[Bazoo]

That is the old style lee mould. All the ones I have are ornery about closing all the way without a tap. If you do tap it to close more securely, make sure it's on the handle tongue and not the side of the mould.

There is something like texture on the inside of the block halves, that is vent lines. They ain't very deep but air don't need much room. If you smoke the mould or use mould release it will clog those fine lines and make the mould throw fatter and more inconsistent.

I color the v notch and mating area on the ends and the metal alignment bars and mating recesses with a carpenter pencil. Also the top of the mould blocks as well as the underside of the sprue plate. If I smear lead, I wipe it quickly with a rag even before I drop the bullets. Then I drop and then color the blocks and sprue cutter again. It works for me. If I disassemble the mould I color the area of the sprue bolt and sprue cutter well before reassembly. Course I keep a screwdriver handy when casting to tighten the bolt should it loosen.

On Lyman or RCBS or any other moulds, I keep screwdrivers and Allen wrenches handy to tighten anything that gets loose. I've had a Lyman bolt from the block/handle drop into my lead when casting. Kinda slowed the process down a mite.

[kmw1954]

Thank you Bazoo I now have that filed away and will pay closer attention to closing this mold. So far when everything is going well I like what I'm seeing. This last batch I just cast I did a quick weight check and I must have improved my technique as the weights were much closer and the deviation from low to high was about 1.0gr rather then the 4.0gr I seen the time before that. Most were in the 104.5gr. to 105gr..

[44Blam]

Just keep at it. Once you get your system down - you can flip on the pot and cast for a couple hours and get a few hundred boolits.
Then when you get a new mold, it'll still take you a little time to figure out the cadence and to start getting good boolits... But before long, you can break in a mold in 5-10 casts.

Then when you start casting with a mold you know, it'll start dropping good boolits on the first or third cast.

This evening I found that I only had 83 40 caliber boolits left and I need some for the second Saturday match this month... So, I fired up the pot melted down about 10lbs of alloy and broke out my 40 cal mold. This mold is a two banger and it ends up dropping about 177 grain cup point boolits. I kept one of the two from the second cast and within 4 casts I was rarely getting bad boolits. About 2 hours later, I have around 400 boolits from that 10lbs.

249210

It is funny - each mold has it's own cadence and the bigger boolits tend to be slower and the smaller tend to be faster.

Main pointers I can give are:
1) Take a NEW mold and with some dish soap and a brush - scrub that sucker with warm water and scrub it completely.
2) Have a lighter on hand - when boolits start to stick, smoke the chamber. Just put the yellow part of the flame there so it gets a little carbon in there.
3) I tend to cast between 650 and 700 degrees - smaller boolits hotter; larger boolits cooler.
4) If your mold sticks closed, your too hot - just slow down.
5) When casting hollow points - heat your mold from the bottom -- specifically keep those steel points HOT.
6) When filling the cavities, fill quickly and put a good amount of lead on top for pressure as the boolit cools and solidifies - it sucks some lead down when cooling. (You can hear it on bigger boolits...)

That's all I can think of at this point! Keep casting! And Happy Casting!

[nun2kute]

Knowing the temperature of the lead in your pot is important (and will make your life much easier).

2 options:
1) Get/Make a PID (ever since I made mine Id never go back to a thermometer)

2) Get a casting thermometer

Make sure your mold is oil-free (scrub well with dish soap and an old toothbrush)
sometimes a little smoke from a wood match or butane lighter helps to get smooth (purdy) boolits



A thermometer is not necessary, many casters don't use one. But they do provide benefits. Different molds (Alum. - Iron - Brass - and even different molds of the same material) may prefer a different temp. and a thermometer will allow you to return to the same place more quickly.

In the days before Zinc it was easy to refrain from contaminating a lead pot, nowa days everything from battery cables to wheel weight could have it mixed in, with a thermometer you can regulate the temp and keep it below the melting of zinc to prevent contamination. I have a hard time trusting what someone else has melted.

I have a Lee melting pot (with NO gripes) that has numbers on the temp dial, for indication purposes only. a thermometer gives me a good idea of knowing where to begin next time.
.
I haven't stepped up to the PID plate yet, but a thermometer will make a difference.

You can find one at your local hardware store in the grill department. Get one with a 5" stem to get as deep into your pot as possible. And one that will reach atleast 800*-1000*. I think I only paid 26$ for mine, online



P.S. welcome to the affliction !

[OS OK]

I wonder if you cut a hole in the bottom of an old pie pan large enough for the bottom of your sauce pan and inverted the pie pan over the hot plate coil, then set your sauce pan on there if that would help keep the heat on the pot and not blowing away in the wind?
Might be worth a try until you get a regular casting pot.

[kmw1954]

Once again Thank You All.

Indeed I am still learning, both the process and the equipment. So far each session, three so far, I have learned a bit more and have worked on my skill set.

As Bazoo mentioned this is and old style mold and isn't as nicely refined as the new ones or more expensive ones. The closing alignment de described is right on point and is a quirk I will learn to deal with. Because as I mentioned many times in my posts, no one else makes a bullet in this size and profile and it also only comes as a two cavity mold. Last night I was wading thru Accurate Molds website and found another that looks close to this one but at this time I am not prepared to pay $130.00 for a 380 mold. Maybe down the road after I have gained confidence and experience and have decided I am going to continue to do this.

The mold has been cleaned, degreased, smoked and lubed as per directions gleaned from you good folks here on the forum and am pretty confident it was done right. I am still looking for a thermometer and after reading and watching many videos I have determined that I am not going to try and put a PID into my Free dollar Hot Plate. I would spend the money on a better electric pot first. Have also been looking and watching for a pcs. of 6" pipe or flu pipe to try putting around the pot as OS suggests to use as a chimney/wind break.

Anyways, so far I am enjoying myself and the experience and intend to forge ahead. Also I have just started reading, From Ingot to Target posted in the stickies.

[Bazoo]

Everyone builds different technique and figures out what works best for them. I've never used a thermometer. I have smoked a mould but didn't think it helped any so I don't do it now.

I started out with a Coleman camp stove and a 6" cast iron skillet. Then a 10 pound lee bottom pour. Lost that in a fire. Then I got the lee 4 pound dipper pot, then another lee 10 pound and finally a lee magnum melter.

The 4 pound lee pot is tedious because just about the time you get going good it needs refilling.

I smelt over fire using a propane tank pot and a steel car wheel to set it in. Making basically a rocket stove. I've got notion to make a small version with the Lyman 10 pound cast iron pot for casting but haven't gotten further than thinking about it yet.

[whisler]

As for mold closing problems with the old style Lee 2 cavity molds, try placing the open mold on a block of wood and closing it while sitting there. Works for me to close it square,

[kmw1954]

Tonight while handling this mold I noticed that when closed slowly one side is consistently lower than the other but if I wiggle the handles a slight amount and squeeze harder the two halves will come together and close. When closed the bottom two halves of the mold are not even and level though the top of the mold is flat.

Looking at the 10 day forecast it looks like highs are only going to be in the 50's and 60's so I may have to try one more time just to see if I can control the heat and temps. Then I will also watch to see if there is a change in the mold as it comes up to temp. Hoping I can do this tomorrow.

[Bazoo]

What you describe about the mould closure is consistent with older lee moulds. Some prefer the older ones some the newer ones. I have both. I sorta like the older ones. I ain't particular though. If it makes bullets I like it. The older ones I've bought have all been broken in good though which is a nice benefit.

You can use a metal coffee can to make a wind shield for your hot plate. Make the ring come 3/4 of the way up the side of your pot and it should help with retaining the heat in a breeze or colder temperatures.

[StuBach]

Just noticed this in the swapping and selling section and thought you might be interested.

WTS: Lee 10lb bottom pour pot
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=9688&share_tid=388933&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcastboolits%2Egunloads%2Ecom%2Fsh owthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D388933&share_type=t&link_source=app

[kmw1954]

Bazoo once again I concur with your assessment and hope that now everyone understands what I am seeing and trying to explain.

I understand your wind shield only we do not drink coffee but I am certain I can come up with something. This pot that I am using is 5.5" diameter so I'm thinking it will need to be at least 6".