Double barrels

[pmer]

I was thinking about getting a double barrel 12 gauge because of there ambidextrous nature and was wondering how over & under shotguns do shooting buckshot and slugs. How are double barrels for shooting slugs into the same spot?
At home out of the 4 of us we have one lefty but are evenly split for which eye is dominant.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Pmer, Over and under is a good choice how about 12 and 20 ga Mossberg
https://i.imgur.com/zmZS2ff.jpg
Or Maverick with shorter barrels, very handy
https://i.imgur.com/EqLecSe.jpg

I sure hope it helps.
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Rcmaveric]

I didnt Mossberg made those. I might have to look into those.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[bikerbeans]

All my double barrel slug shooting has been with side by sides. POI between the left and right barrels was always an issue. I would think the O/U design would work much better.

BB

[SuperBlazingSabots]

May I take the liberty of suggesting a 20 ga High Power Nitro Express in Maverick for $400 to 500
The combo with 20 and 12 ga is around $850 to 900 If you choose to go with the combo then I'll suggest 26 inch barrels.


Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[pmer]

If my day goes the way I think it might on the way home I can stop at a huge gun shop called Boone's Fine Guns. They'd have good selection of doubles. The 12/ 20 combos sound like a great idea.

Running 2 different chokes might be nice too.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't know how O/U's are built, but I do not see why they would be any better than a SXS as far as slugs go. Personally I find O/U's ugly. I do love my SxS's though, and currently own a 16 gauge Stevens 506 (maybe 504?), a 16 gauge Savage Fox model B, and a 12 gauge Hunter Arms Th Fulton. I have never tried slugs in any of them. Both Savage/Stevens are IC/Mod barrels. I think the fulton was Mod/Full.

I find the best way to buy a good SXS is to go into it with an open mind. You can run into the Savage/Stevens "311" style guns all over the place, and usually for $300-$400. They are not perfect, they were made to be inexpensive, but they are great shooting guns. Out of the blue I found the fulton, a gun I've never even heard of before. I passed up a peculiar Husqvarna brand a while back that opened with an under lever. Even now, I've been looking at a Henry Arms SXS hammer gun. The guy only wants $125. The only reason I haven't bought it is I really don't need another, although it is a nice old Belgium made antique, it does have Damascus barrels, and I have too many strong shells that could accidentally make it into a fine old gun like that. There are thousands of old sxs's and o/u's out there to find. Each one I look at I find something different.

Check Armslist, gun shops, and flea markets/garage sales. Minnesota has plenty of good SXS's around. I don't know your area, but there is a gun shop in Pillager I used to go to that often had random old guns come in. Other than the Ruger gold label, I'm not impressed with any newer SXS's, definately not anything of Turkish or Spanish origin.

[6pt-sika]

I’ve had very good luck with SxS’s shooting my handloaded buckshot and slugs . I’ve used 10 , 12 , 16 and 20 gauges most of which were damascus or twist barreled guns . However my parameters may not be the same as other folks . I usually pattern buck and slugs at 25 yards as most places I use them for deer a long shot is 30 yards . And to date I’ve killed deer using the 10 gauge 2 7/8” with three different slugs I cast as well as 00000 , 0000 , 000 , 00 , 0 , 1 and 2 . With the 12 I’ve used home cast slug and 0 buck to take deer . With the 16 just #1 buck so far although I have a very nice mold that’s a rendition of the Lyman 525 sabot scaled down for the 16 maybe this season for that one . With the 20 I’ve yet to kill a deer with a 20 double but I do have loads worked up with #1 , 2 and 3 buck as well as having the Lyman 20 gauge sabot slug mold . The bottom line is all my stuff is okay out to 30 or so and some are good out to 50 . What I do works for me but perhaps not others !

[gpidaho]

pmer; I like over-under shotguns. I don't have anything fancy but do have the Maverick 12ga cylinder over cylinder and a Stoeger 12ga-20ga combo with choke tubes. The Maverick is the tightest fixed choke cylinder bore I own. Mine measures .725 which to me is Skeet. That said, I've had no problems shooting .735 round ball out of it as they have a small area to swage down. The Maverick would be a good defensive shotgun but may be a little open choked for buckshot hunting. Also the Maverick has a strange safety that doesn't allow the gun to fire if it's pointed down. That might save some from shooting their foot but would be altogether unhandy in a situation as shown in my avatar. Gp

[6pt-sika]

On somewhat of a side note . I’ve got Belgium made Browning Superposed in all four gauges and have messed a little with the 12 , 20 and 28 . One of my 12’s is the Magnum model and I was all about shooting 3” stuff in the gun . It’s choked M&F so factory 000 and 00 was not the greatest however factory #1 shot really well . I also shot some factory 3” Foster and Brenneke slugs , the Fosters were so so and the Brenneke’s shot very well again at 25 yards . Downside in that gun the Brenneke slugs kick the fire out of you if they’re 3” . I tried the Superposed 20 with 2 3/4” only as it’s a 1951 gun and they hadn’t made any 3” 20’s at that time ( I hope eventually to add another 20 that left the factory with 3” chambers) , anyway my old 51 gun did okay with factory 20 gauge buck and the old style Brennekes I happen to have a small supply of . I also have a mid 60’s 20 skeet that did very well with the slugs and liked the European factory 20 gauge #1 buck . My 28 Superposed is a skeet gun and I have plans to work up a load with #2 and #3 buck if possible might even order one of the Russian 28 gauge renditions of the Lyman sabot slug . And if I do I’ll make a concertied effort to kill a deer with it !

[KCSO]

For slugs you may want an open choke and with modern screw ins this is no problem. The o/u is a prime choice for printing both barrels on target as tey are easier to regulate than a side by side where recoil plays a part in dertemining the point of convergence. In addition most cheap doubles are rather poorly regulate to start with. With M/L shotguns with open chokes minor regulation can be done by filing the muzzles at an angle. I have never had much success with this on a choked gun.

The Mossberg is a nice gun and stout but heavy for my tastes. Especially for the 20 ga versions as I like a 20 of around 6 pounds weight.

[pmer]

Wow thanks for all the info!

[Petander]

Yes the regulation -or the lack if it- can be all over the place with any double barrel... sxs being possibly more difficult. Change anything in a load and the common poi changes,even with a properly regulated gun.

I regulated a Merkel 8 mm double rifle (sxs) for a friend once. All he had was a certain bullet he wanted to use. Even with the adjustment screws and instructions,regulating a heavy recoiling double barreled gun is not something I want to do very often. It took me a week or so to develop a load and regulate it @ 75 m, 50-100 bullets...

That experience has efficiently kept me from buying an sxs for slug use,even though I like the Cape Gun aspect... but there are no adjustments in most sxs shotguns...

[KCSO]

One reason I am not fond of reaming a 2 1/2" chamber to 2 3/4... The Husky underlever I shoot most often is well regulated for 2 1/2" 1 ounce loads but if you go up to 1 1/4 ounce loads even in the 2 1/2" shell the gun puts tem a foor or more apart at 30 yards and for slugs I have to shoot 1 Oz 16 ga balls in a wad with just the right amount of FFg to get it so shoot on.

[Petrol & Powder]

For sporting purposes an Over & Under has a lot going for it. A single sighting plane, nearly straight line recoil (more so with the lower barrel) and a very reliable second shot.
Most users select the lower barrel for the first shot to take advantage of the recoil forces being more in-line with the stock (less muzzle rise)

Now, very little of that matters with close ranges with slugs and a side by side will get the job done.
At longer ranges, the regulation of the barrels becomes a bit more critical. At some point in front of the gun the point of impact for each barrel of a side by side should converge.

An O/U shotgun is a great tool for sporting use. For close range work a side by side or and Over Under will probably be about equal.

In all honesty, a semi-auto or a pump action gives you the advantage of a single sighting plane AND is often less expensive than an O/U.
In today's world of affordable and reliable pump action and semi-auto shotguns, the double barrels have lost some of their edge.
If ambidextrous operation is important, an old Ithaca model 37 or a Browning BPS will give an O/U an run for their money.

[pmer]

I stopped at that GS , I didn't look at any pumps but they had used Stoeggers from 300. Probably a dozen sxs, LC Smith Remington and imports. For new had a 12/20 Stoegger combo for 600 plus Mossberg ATI and another brand for about the same price range of 450ish. Plus the nice ones like Browning etc. They had a decent used Franchi 12 over under made by Benelli for 750 but I couldn't get a lower price. Might have to go back with the lefties and have them try it. They even had a left hand Remington 870

[megasupermagnum]

I'm a lefty, and shoot both right and left handed. I only bird hunt left, but have shot a number of deer and turkey right handed. I've probably shot half my turkeys right handed, they come in at any angle. I wont buy anything I cant shoot both ways, that includes handguns and rifles. It's one of my problems with a bolt action. I learned to shoot a right handed bolt just fine, but it's still awkward no matter how you put it.

No doubt if you look at ambidextrous, the pump guns to look for are the Mossberg 500, Ithaca 37, and Browning BPS, in that order. I've not been as impressed with semi autos. The semi auto market is so scattered. I don't know if I've ever found one with the safety in the right place, with the bolt release somewhere I can get to, and not have a some kind of stupid extra safety often related to the shell lifter. I shouldn't need 3 hands to load a gun. Off the top of my head the only advantage to a double barrel over a single barrel is having two chokes available at your finger tips. I have grown to greatly detest internal threaded choke tubes. They are a cheap manufacturing solution, and hopefully the fad will disappear eventually. It's not often, but there has been plenty of times I pull the rear trigger first for the tighter choked barrel on my SXS's.

Some other advantages of a break open are not kicking out shells. Crawling around picking up shells sucks. Opening a gun and dumping the shells either in a bucket or the trash is fantastic. Some guns do have ejectors, but being a break open you can put your thumb in front to stop them.

I don't get up around Isle very often, but if you ever come down south of St. Cloud, you are free to try out anything I have.

[Petrol & Powder]

megasupermagnum - I'll agree with you concerning the ambidextrous qualities of the Ithaca 37 and the Browning BPS (both are bottom loading / bottom ejecting guns, basically the same design ) but I will disagree that the Mossberg 500 is an ambidextrous shotgun. The safety is on the tang but that's the ONLY part of that gun that is remotely ambidextrous.

Most semi-auto shotguns are in fact right handed designs and I'll give you that one. But, they do still have a single sighting plane due to their single barrel. As for loading semi-auto shotguns; they are pretty easy to load if you follow the proper manual of arms. Most people I see struggling with semi-auto shotguns never took the time to learn how the gun works. The guns aren't real left handed guns but they don't take three hands to load unless the user just wants to make it difficult (and I've seen plenty of users that just want to make it difficult).

Choke tubes: I don't think choke tubes are going away. While you cannot have two choke tubes in play on a single barrel gun at the same time you do have the advantage of picking which choke tube you have in the gun at the time, which is more than the choice you get with a fixed choke double barrel.

I own shotguns with fixed chokes and I own guns with choke tubes. I own single barrel shotguns and I own double barrel shotguns. there are pros and cons to all of those systems. If I was forced to have only one shotgun it would be either an O/U with choke tubes (probably the most versatile) OR a pump action with choke tubes (probably the least expensive with the greatest versatility )

As for the gun ejecting empty shells, I've had guns with extractors and guns with ejectors. I can live with both and neither is a deal breaker.

If I was seeking an ambidextrous shotgun on a budget, I would probably want a bottom loading / bottom ejecting pump action shotgun with choke tubes like a Browning BPS.

If I was seeking an ambidextrous shotgun and had a little more money to spend, I would seek an O/U with choke tubes.

[megasupermagnum]

The only difference between the BPS and M500 is that the BPS is a bottom eject. This is a negative, as you cannot port load a shell. The safey's are in the same spot, the slide release is more or less in the same spot. What is the deal breaker for a left hand? I've shot many mossberg 500's, and have shot and hunted with both a 12 gauge and 10 gauge BPS. The BPS is an inferior design, although it makes a great hunting gun.

As for semi autos, look no farther than the Remington 11-87. I'm not saying it's all of them, but the ones I've handled had one astronomical flaw. I like the 1100. It's a good design, although the safety is in the wrong spot.[smilie=s: Then comes the 11-87. You can't just pull the bolt to feed a shell from the magazine, you have to pull back, and then hit the bolt release. The instructions say to port load, and then load the magazine. This is quite possibly the worst design flaw I have ever seen on a shotgun! Now there is no choice, you have to leave it loaded. If your life ever depended on that gun, and you did not have one in the chamber, you could be in a bad place. Say you aren't there and your wife/girlfriend went to use it. A bad design is a bad design.

I love my Ithaca Mag-10, IMO it is the best modern 10 gauge available, same with the SP-10. It also has a problem though. You have to hold the bolt release just so you can load the dang thing! There is absolutely no reason for this, just a poor decision by the engineering department. Since this s purely a hunting gun for me, I just live with it.

There are good semi autos out there, the Rem 1100 as I said, also the Mossberg 930, I've liked both the Benelli SBE 1 and 2. I never tried the 3. You have to be a lot more careful with semi autos, as there are VERY poor designs out there, while pump guns as a whole you cannot go wrong.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The idea of an O/U slug gun intrigues me because of the quick second shot available. However in practical use a Semi Auto will be just as fast since you can't fire a second shot while in recoil and expect to hit anything and that give any Autoloader more than enough time to cycle. And you can learn how to run a pump guns nearly as fast and they are much cheaper than any O/U I've seen.

As far as the inexpensive Alternative of a Stevens 311 I have to say do your self a favor and stay away. I have reworked two of them and both were pure junk inside. They didn't even deburr any of the internal parts and nothing ran well. They also don't retract the Firing Pins very well if even slightly dirty which makes it almost impossible to open the gun without literally breaking it over your knee.

I sold the one I built as a Slug Gun after cutting the barrels to 20" they shot in different zip codes. The other one was a redo and clean up for a friend and it was worse inside than the first one and newer to Boot.

Stoeger makes decent relatively inexpensive SxS's with either Hammers or not adn they work great right out of the box. Regulation for slugs is always going to be a crap shoot.

Randy

[Petrol & Powder]

The OP hasn't specified what the intended use will be. Are we're talking about a sporting gun (Trap, Skeet, upland birds, waterfowl, ?) or a home defense weapon ? Or something else ?

If we're talking sporting uses then it's going to be a challenge to find one shotgun that fits 4 different users. Male, female, left & right handed, right eye dominant or left eye dominant, big, little, etc.

If we're talking home defense, regulation of the barrels and choke tubes are probably not going to be a big issues.
I don't think an O/U is going to be an affordable choice for a home defense gun.

For a home defense weapon, a good pump action is hard to beat. You can leave the chamber empty, the safety off and the action unlocked. That gives you a safe gun with at least 4 rounds in the magazine (two more than a double barrel). You can put the gun into use by cycling the action and pulling the trigger, that will be equally as simple for left and right handed users.

A side by side can be used as a home defense weapon but I think it is inferior to a pump action for several reasons. If it has internal hammers it needs to be loaded, with the hammers cocked and the safety on - not a good condition to store a gun in.
External hammers at least allow you to store the gun with the hammers down but you still only have two rounds in the gun.

[pmer]

It would be for informal clay pigeons and hunting. Primarily for a 14 year old son, he's right handed but left eye dominant. My wife is the same and our 17 year old daughter is left handed / right eye dominant.

A 20 gauge would probably be a smarter bet as far recoil is concerned (for wife and kids) but the son would probably have more trigger time. He thinks over & unders are cool. He has shot the 870 12ga. right handed loaded for coyote with Burris fast fire on it.

I'm right hand/ right eyed and have a 870 and a Benelli semi auto.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

I have been reading and having fun at what all others have said.
I still recommend a 20 ga and from what I know now I wasted a lot of money on my 12 gauge guns when all I needed was a good solid 20 ga High Power Nitro Express ! !
Then start loading .575 RB loads for your family and hunting for some 20 cents a pop.
Please read my post #810 here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150140-VdoMemorie-Blazing-Sabot!/page41

Regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Petrol & Powder]

It would be for informal clay pigeons and hunting. Primarily for a 14 year old son, he's right handed but left eye dominant. My wife is the same and our 17 year old daughter is left handed / right eye dominant.

A 20 gauge would probably be a smarter bet as far recoil is concerned (for wife and kids) but the son would probably have more trigger time. He thinks over & unders are cool. He has shot the 870 12ga. right handed loaded for coyote with Burris fast fire on it.

I'm right hand/ right eyed and have a 870 and a Benelli semi auto.

Thanks, that helps a lot.

[Petrol & Powder]

That's a tall order and I'm not certain a single gun is going to be able fill those roles.

I would suggest filling the need for your 14 year old son and avoid trying to find a compromise that fits everyone. Trying to find one gun that fits all will likely result in one gun that fails for all.

If your son shoots from his right shoulder then that left eye dominant thing will take some work.

An O/U with a short stock that can be lengthened with spacers as he grows may be a good option. A semi-auto with some adjustment available in the stock (like some of the Beretta's ) may also be a solid gun for him.
When it comes to shotguns, I'm a firm believer that you should never jump from one gun to another, to another, etc.
Find a gun that fits and dedicate yourself to that ONE gun. Don't change platforms !
Because that one gun needs to be durable so that the shooter can become extremely familiar with it over the years, it is worth spending a little more money up front.

As for you, your wife and your daughter, I think you will need to decide if your wife and daughter want a lot a of time with a shotgun or if they will be occasional shooters. And you probably know this already but you're on your own.

Trying to find a compromise shotgun for 4 very different people will result in a gun that works for none of those 4 people.

[Petander]

The idea of an O/U slug gun intrigues me because of the quick second shot available. However in practical use a Semi Auto will be just as fast since you can't fire a second shot while in recoil and expect to hit anything ....

When I choose a light load for the lower barrel and shoot it first, I can hit with the second one really,really fast with my 20 gauge Beretta 57 o/u. This is one of my reasons to prefer a 20. Magnums in 20 don't gain much at all anyway.

To the OP I'd recommend an o/u in 20 AND a pump slug gun.

[megasupermagnum]

Other than a dedicated rifled slug gun, I am against the 20 gauge for most uses. A 7/8 oz load is common in 12 gauge, and you can buy 1 ounce loads anywhere. I assume you can find 3/4 oz 20 gauge, but most of what you see is 7/8 oz. In the case of the Mossberg 500, the 20 gauge is about half a pound lighter, a much bigger effect than the 1/8 oz of shot.

Personally I believe the perfect gun for what you want is the Mossberg 500 Flex #50121. You can change the stock without tools in about 10 seconds. How you shoot it is up to you, but I start new shooters off shooting on their dominant eye side. If they just can't pick it up, shooting with the dominant eye is overrated. I believe dominant side is the better way, but I'd bet 25% of the shooters out there today are shooting right handed while they are actually left eye dominant.

Find the stocks that work well enough, and change them at the range. Most of us started off with a short shock shotgun and later used that same gun with a slip on recoil pad. It's not ideal, but if you aren't made of money, you make due.

[Petrol & Powder]

While we could debate for hours over standard length shotshells and their normal payloads, the differences lay in the size of the guns more than the payloads of the shells.

The 2 3/4" 12 ga shells typically hold 1oz to 1 1/4" oz of shot and standard length 20 gauge shells typically have a 7/8oz payload. You can get reduced payload 12 gauge shells and drop that payload down below 1 oz. BUT you still have a 12 gauge sized gun. A 20 guage gun built on a smaller 20 gauge frame is dramatically different from a 12 ga gun.

The 12 ga is certainly more ubiquitous in America than the 20 ga. and there is no argument that a 12 ga can throw more pellets due to it heavier payload capability but the real advantage of the 20 ga. is that the guns themselves are handy and fun to carry.

The 20 ga is a great gun for clay targets and upland birds. It will force you to be a better shooter. The 20 ga is not a good choice for waterfowl.

I don't know if the OP's 14 year old is large for his age but most of the younger teens I encounter are better off with a smaller framed shotgun.
If you've ever seen a young shooter that is proficient with a 20 gauge shotgun and then hand them a 12 ga gun, it's amazing how well they can break targets. They are accustomed to breaking targets with 7/8 ounce of shot and a full choke; with an extra 1/4 oz. of shot in the shell and a modified choke they will consistently smoke close targets and break distant targets.

A gun that fits the shooter will be better than a big gun that the shooter needs to grow into.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
We have a Fox B 12 gauge and a Fox B 20 gauge. They are two worlds difference when it comes to comparison.
The 20 gauge is possibly 2 pounds lighter and very fast getting on target.
But when I get serious about busting crows and other critters I take the 12.
Mike in LLama Land

[TNsailorman]

Eye dominance is an easy fix. A piece of tape on the safety glass lense of the dominant eye cuts down the dominance of the right eye of a left handed shooter or vice versa. A shotgun should be shot with both eyes open anyway, not sighted like a rifle with one eye closed. you point a shotgun and aim a rifle. As for the argument over a 20 or a 12, that has been going on for generations and it still is a simple answer; it depend on who and what the gun is intended. For women I have always recommended a gas operated 12 gauge as a beginning. Later they might want to go over/under but that can come later. It is no heavier than an over/under and the recoil is considerably reduced by the gas recoil system. The recoil of the 12 gauge gas operated auto actually feels less than a 20 in an over/under or side by side. The 12 also has more pellets in general than a 20 unless you go 3" magnum and now you are back to more recoil in a lighter gun. If a shooter is going to shoot trap or skeet, I would recommend a copy of Pachmayr's Trapshooting and also Pachmayr's Skeet Shooting, both with instructor Ken Robertson, an California and International Champion. It is the best "how to" presentation that I have ever found for the beginner or for someone who just wants to improve his or her game. I have been shooting trap and skeet for over 50 years and it is addictive once you learn how to shoot it correctly. my experience anyway, james

[longbow]

Personally I like side by's much better than O/U's but my understanding is that O/U's tend to be easier to get regulated. Not sure why that would be except maybe the way they are constructed? Either way it is unlikely you'll get a gun well enough regulated to shoot both barrels to same point of aim with slugs at any significant distance (much past 30 yards maybe). With shot it doesn't matter much if regulation is a bit off but of course with slugs having each barrel shoot maybe 6" off plus smoothbore lack of precision means pretty large groups. A sight for each barrel as Kodiak does might work but then you've got 2 sights on a gun you want to use for bird hunting too... not so good.

A pump gun is probably the best bet. You can get a birdshot barrel and slug barrel. I'm in agreement with msm on the BPS. I have one and it is a nice gun but... I don't like bottom eject/bottom load only and something I find only with this gun is that I find it easy to short stroke and not chamber a round when operating it. I don't have that issue with any other pump I have tried, just my BPS. So, while it is a well made gun and looks great I wouldn't buy another one.

I haven't used it nearly enough but so far I am very happy with the Mossberg 500 Slugster I bought a while ago. It functions very well and is really smooth to operate (no short stroke issue there!).

Yes the 12/20 argument goes on. I am a die hard 12 ga. guy mainly because 12 ga. is "universal"... ammunition is available in about every flavour and everywhere, plus 12 ga. is better with buckshot. Depends on your wants and needs but for me, I don't want or need a 20 ga. I had a 20 ga. Remington 870 Wingmaster but got rid of it. Different strokes!

Longbow

[richhodg66]

The idea of an O/U slug gun intrigues me because of the quick second shot available. However in practical use a Semi Auto will be just as fast since you can't fire a second shot while in recoil and expect to hit anything and that give any Autoloader more than enough time to cycle. And you can learn how to run a pump guns nearly as fast and they are much cheaper than any O/U I've seen.

As far as the inexpensive Alternative of a Stevens 311 I have to say do your self a favor and stay away. I have reworked two of them and both were pure junk inside. They didn't even deburr any of the internal parts and nothing ran well. They also don't retract the Firing Pins very well if even slightly dirty which makes it almost impossible to open the gun without literally breaking it over your knee.

I sold the one I built as a Slug Gun after cutting the barrels to 20" they shot in different zip codes. The other one was a redo and clean up for a friend and it was worse inside than the first one and newer to Boot.

Stoeger makes decent relatively inexpensive SxS's with either Hammers or not adn they work great right out of the box. Regulation for slugs is always going to be a crap shoot.

Randy

Never heard that about the Stevens 311s, they have a reputation for being crude but rugged. I had one for a while and never had any problems. I have a 16 gauge Savage/Stevens double I bought about a year ago and haven't shot yet, I don't think it's a 311 but similar. Maybe I ought to get that out this weekend and shoot it.

[pmer]

One thing I noticed on the used Stoeggers upstairs at that GS was that the safeties weren't very consistent in switching back and fourth from fire to safe. (O&U)

Man, I looked at post 810 on Super Blazing Sabot's link... there sure isn't any grass growing under those numbers!

I appreciate the advice from all the posters.

[tudor8055]

Be careful with o/u for left handers as most will have a cast off stock. A left hander will not be able to shoot an o/u cast off, the gun will not
come up right. I am left handed and left eye dominant I shoot sporting clays with a Browning o/u that I purchased with a cast on stock (hard to find). I hunt birds with 16 & 12ga model 37s that I converted to left handed safeties the guns are cast neutural as are most pumps.
If you are left handed research stock cast in shotguns. If a lefty buys a cast off gun he will not be able to shoot it well and may not know why. Most o/u are cast off, some sxs guns are also, most pumps and semi autos are neutral.
I tried to shoot right handed for about a year. I mastered the physical aspect of it but could not change my eye dominance.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Never heard that about the Stevens 311s, they have a reputation for being crude but rugged. I had one for a while and never had any problems. I have a 16 gauge Savage/Stevens double I bought about a year ago and haven't shot yet, I don't think it's a 311 but similar. Maybe I ought to get that out this weekend and shoot it.

All you've got to do is take the stock off and you can see how rough the internal parts are. They deburred nothing! All they had to do to improve the quality big time was to put all those rough parts in a Tumbler for an hour or so and they would have had all the sharp edges and burrs knocked off and the results would have been night and day different. It would have cost them exactly nothing to do!!!

I was really disappointed in what I found. Pure junk !!!,,, and I will never even pick one up again.

Randy