Opinion on scope

[Taylor]

As you know I've had issues with a Redfield mounted on my Savage 220. It is currently back at Leupold for the 2nd time.

I have an older Weaver K4, steel tube. Do you think it would hold up to the recoil of the shotgun? I took it off my Savage 99.

[centershot]

Yes, I think it would work fine.

[bikerbeans]

Eye relief might be an issue.

BB

[CastingFool]

I don't know about the K4, but I have used the weaver 2.5 scope for years, 30 or so, on a 12 ga, for deer hunting, without any problems. Holds zero very well. No problem with magnification at the ranges hunt, 90 yds max.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've used the Leupold 2.5x20 on a 45-70 for 20+years, 300gr at 2200fps, several thousand rounds by now. A very tough, light scope that has taken hard recoil,long eye relief. I've had lens loosen in several steel Weaver's after a couple hundred hard recoiling rounds - light 358 Win, 444 rifles. Most of the toughest of today's scopes are very expensive (thousand plus) and very heavy (20 plus oz.). I put the little Leupold 2.5x20 on my elk rfiles - light 358 Win, 45-70 and 444 for weight and durability.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't know what your 99 was chambered in, but I don't think most factory 20 gauge slugs are all that horrible for recoil, or on scopes. About like a 30-06.

[Tripplebeards]

It will work fine just make sure to glue it in place, loctite it, and bed your scope base. My 220 doesn’t recoil very hard but my optic still slid. I’ll be practicing what I preached above with it.

[Taylor]

Changed my mind on the scope. Gonna try a K6W.

[Tripplebeards]

I have problems trying to follow a running deer at close range over 3x so I have a wide field of view...more power to ya. I won’t go more than a 3.5x starting magnification on any of my rifles now a days. Missed a few coyotes at close range running not being able to find them in some of my 4.5x14 leupolds.

[Taylor]

It's all I have left. Still waiting to hear from Leupold. But, have lost faith in the Redfields.

[6pt-sika]

To start off I’m not trying to talk anyone into anything . Now with that being said it’s no surprise I prefer older Leupold scopes . The new Leupold scope as a rule I don’t want . So recently one of the guys at the shop was wound up about Athlon scopes they’re pretty inexpensive and made in China so I scoffed at them . We ended up becoming an Athlon dealer , so over time I bought some of their cheapest models mostly 3-12 and 4-12 but also a 6-24 . Anyway the first 4-12 I got was put on a Ruger #1 in 416 REM Mag and I proceeded to shoot the smallest group of 3 shots at 100 yards I’ve ever fired with a 416 , it was a skoosh under 3/4 MOA . I shot the rifle about thirty times that day with 350 and 400 grainers and I expected them to trash the scope . But they didn’t , that scope is now on my new Remington 700 Ultimate ML and in fine shape . The 416 now has an Athlon 3-12 and it’s holding up well just like the 4-12 . The 6-24 I bought is perched on a Remington 700 5R HB in 260 REM and was used this year during damage control hunting at the range I’ve shot several five shot 1/4 MOA groups . So again I am not trying to talk you into buying squat , these were just my experiences with the brand . And bear in mind I bought the cheaper grades .

[6pt-sika]

My Savage 220 that I’ve had before they were listed by Savage has a nice old matte finished Leupold Vari XII 3-9 that’s been on it ever since I bought it . Now I’m not disagreeing with anyone about anything, BUT it’s been my experience with this gun and factory 2 3/4” sabot slugs especially the Remington AccuTip that it would keep three touching at 100 yards from the bench if I did my part . As to scope moving as I said mines been on the gun since I got it without LocTite etc and it’s not moved . Now that’s not to say I might get it from the safe tommorrow , shoot it and it slides back and whacks me in the head . But so far that’s not the case !

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Round count AND recoil determine the life of a scope, many scopes last 30 or 40 years, 10 or 15 shots a year on 'standard' weight rifles. Start running 50 to a hundred rounds a week for months on very light rifles with substantial recoil and many scopes will fail. Most cast bullet shooting is not heavy recoil.

[6pt-sika]

Round count AND recoil determine the life of a scope, many scopes last 30 or 40 years, 10 or 15 shots a year on 'standard' weight rifles. Start running 50 to a hundred rounds a week for months on very light rifles with substantial recoil and many scopes will fail. Most cast bullet shooting is not heavy recoil.

Over the last fifteen or so years I’ve used a bunch of old Weaver K2.5 and K3 scopes on the herd of 444’s I used to deal with weekly also a few KV’s and K4’s . My cast bullet loads in most of those rifles were on the stout side as most were loaded with H322 or RL-7 anyway I thrashed several of them a slightly newer Weaver V4.5 and V7 as well as a couple 60’s to 70’s Redfield variables . On the other hand I have a bunch of Leupold’s from the 70’s to the 90’s that have been on a pile of stuff many big hitters in the group . Incidentally my 375 H&H and 416 REM Mag get full blown jacketed loads not cast . I’ve got a Leupold Vari XIII 6.5-20 I bought new in the 80’s that been on everything from a 22 Hornet to a 458 Win Mag and it’s still going strong . I do have a pair of Leupold 24x BR and a pair of Leupold 36x BR scopes that don’t go on anything heavier then a 6.5-06 or so . Almost forgot I have a couple Redfield 6-18x and a Redfield 6400 20x that were all bought new in the late 70’s that still work great . And all these scopes are used regularly . So while I don’t disagree with your assessment I don’t totally agree either .

[Tripplebeards]

I have three older 3x9 leupolds. The one in my old faithful 7600 Remington has shifted from zero many times, normally only within a couple inches at 100 yards. Not going to to miss a deer in my woods when this happens. But a I can remember one year it shifted a little over 6” a few days after sight in. I wounded a meat deer and had to track it down a few hundred yards and finish it off with open sights. No optic is fool proof or perfect imo. I have had every brand optic I’ve own shift POA at one time or another. I do like my old Leopold 3x9’s but the glass is foggy on all three compared to an entry level Nikon. In my old age I really love the Adjustable objective on the front of my Nikons. Even after 6G if lazek surgery. I can focus my cross hairs and sight picture crystal clear. My avatar was from my 14.5” barreled POF and a Prostaff 5,3.5x14. I can shoot .3” groups with it at 200 yards...and can do the same with my 223 LTR with a 4.4x14 leupold vx111 target optic. It’s just nit as clear but has a fine duplex. They all work just pic one with low start magnification or you’ll kick yourself when you can find your deer through it at close range. I hated adjustable objectives when I was I kid being afraid I’d accidentally bump bit and get blurry picture. If it were me I’d sell one or more of your optics and reinvest the sale into a modern undated variable powdered optic with no more than a 2.5 to 3.5 starting magnification. I have a few leupold 2x7’s and feel at 2x my target looks farther away VS no magnification at all. I normally bump my 2x to 3 or 3.5x power before I enter the woods. Same with my 2.5x 10 monarchs...I have 5 of them. I bump them all to 3x /3.5x when hunting otherwise a deer at 100 yards looks like it’s at 200 yards imo at at 2x.

[Taylor]

My Mossberg has a 1.5x4 Leupold on it. My muzzleloader , 2x7 Leupold. I'm happy with both and they do a good job. Just trying to get this Savage up and running. At this point, I want to rule out any other issues that might be lurking and i just don't know about them. If the K6 works, I'll leave it until I can get something else with a 2x7 etc.

[Taylor]

Got to the range this morning. Had put the Weaver K6W on it. Still shot bad with factory and reloads. Will try the oem stock next round. Maybe it's a bad bedding job.

[Tripplebeards]

I’ll put money on it.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm sure stocks can cause problems, but what Taylor describes is barely on a printer paper size target at 50 yards, from a gun that should be able to put palm size groups at 100 yards. Since you have the original stock, go ahead and try it. If that doesn't work, don't waste any more time. Call, and send it back to Savage.

[Taylor]

I'm at the point of throwing stuff and using a lot of 4 letter words.

[Tripplebeards]

If the factory stock doesn't tighten up your groups just send it into savage for testing as others have said. They’ll group test it for you.

[skeettx]

Weavers are fine
Watching with interest
Mike

[murf205]

I called Dave (curmudgeon) at BPI about a question I had about slugs, which he solved for me, but the conversation turned to shotguns and scopes. He told me that he had an Alpen scope on their test mule with MANY rounds to it's credit and in his words "you can't kill it". He didn't care that it was an inexpensive Chinese scope, only that it stayed together. I was suprised to say the least.

[Taylor]

Made it to the range this morning. Weaver K6W Microtrac scope and OEM stock. 1st 2 rounds touching, after that....all over. Disregard the small holes.249809 Why me?

[W.R.Buchanan]

What kind of ammo are you using? Reloads? what slugs?

If you are loading your own then maybe you should try some factory ammo and see if the gun shoots with it.

I'd recommend some Lightfield 20 ga Slugs as they seem to be the most accurate and consistent out there.

If the gun won't shoot them,,, Send it back!

Your problems don't sound like Scope problems, and if it is a gun problem you should send it to the factory for repair and not mess with it.

Right now it appears to me that you are shooting in the dark and grasping at straws. A box of Lightfields will cost you <$10 and you will know for sure in 5 shots if it is the ammo or the gun. That gun shouldn't recoil hard enough to affect any scope unless your mounts are loose.

Really like to see you get this gun shooting.

Randy

[Taylor]

Randy, I have tried all the factory ammo. These are some of the pics from the very first range day.2498212498222498232498242498252498262498272498 28249829249830

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well it looks to me that Target #4 is the right ammo. Accurate Full Bore? What is that?

I'd still try some Lightfield Slugs in it to see if they work.

What you are looking for is an easily obtainable "Baseline" ammo that works, that you can compare everything else to. That way you always have something repeatable to test against.

I always sight in my rifles with a "Commonly Available Factory Load" and that becomes the Mechanical Zero for that rifle. (0/0) Then correct that zero for my Reloads with different size bullets. That way I always have a repeatable zero to go back to when I'm done shooting and know where the gun will shoot with easily obtainable ammo.

Everything else is with relation to that Mechanical Zero and is recorded in a little book that I can refer to when shooting other than factory loads.

IN the picture below the rifle is mechanical zeroed at 200 yards with PPU Factory 150 gr ammo. The page shown has elevation offsets for a 205 gr cast boolit at 50,100,150,200 M. The rear sight (Redfield Olympic) is then returned to its Mechanical Zero after shooting or effectively rezeroing the gun to the 150 gr Factory load.

Sights or optics are always returned Mechanical Zero after shooting so I am always starting at the same place. Scope Dials are zeroed out to Mechanical Zero and Stops are set and scales zeroed on Receiver Sights. I don't change the zero on Red Dot Sights, I just hold over or ?.

On a shotgun where 100 to maybe 150 yards would be the farthest you would shoot. Zeroing at say 75 yds would yield 1" high at 50 and 3" low at 100, and then you would shoot at 125 and 150 just to see what the drop is and put that in your head or better yet record it for future use.

This post is NOT directed entirely at you, but hoping others can unravel the mystery of sighting a gun in with multiple loads.

Randy

[Taylor]

As far as factory, Winchester seems to do the best. Accurate mold # 62-370s.

The smith has it now, looking over everything I've done. He'll get back with me and make recommendations. We have already decided to re-do the bedding and crown the barrel. It doesn't have one, sharp edge with burr inside.

[megasupermagnum]

Did it shoot better with the original stock? Other than the lucky 3 shots on the top right target, none of those groups is good. So the gun never shot good? Lots of mixed reports from you.

The answer is a glaring, send it to Savage. Do not let a gunsmith monkey with a known bad gun.

[Taylor]

Not really. Those targets were shot on the Boyds stock. Called Savage, those people are hard to talk to. That's when I found out they only have a 1 year warranty.

[megasupermagnum]

Wow, I've had nothing but good things with Savage in the past. Sometimes you just get an dingus on the line, they don't hire the top of the line to sit and answer a phone. I would try again, and ask to send it in for repair. Don't even say much, just ask for an RMA number and a shipping label.

If you really don't want to do that, then I can see where you would try a recrown. Honestly the worst problems I've heard of these is a greatly oversized bore. Have you slugged yours yet?

[Taylor]

Slugged at .615. She told me they would not provide a shipping label. No crown at all, looks like it was cut and left. Smith agreed it didn't look nor feel good to him. Has a burr inside the muzzle all the way around. I have looked at several since this observation, all the others have a nice crown with an outside radius...not mine.

[megasupermagnum]

Well that about solves my on again, off again want for a Savage 220. Too bad, they used to be a great company that would have stood behind an obvious defect like that.

[Taylor]

I think all new guns are a bit iffy, especially when it comes with a plastic stock. But yeah..I'm done with Savage.