I don't like the 9mm, but.....

[docmagnum357]

OK folks, time to get into the 21st century with a barely 20th century cartridge. I cut my teeth on a 44 magnum shooting cast. Loved it. I later learned to love the 357 even more, although it is somewhat vexing with a cast bullet budget. Now I am old and getting more practical. I shoot a lot with 9mm. 9 out of 10 people who come to my classes shoot 9mm. Not a bad round if you overlook fast twist, high pressure, tapered case, limited case capacity, and overall length that must fit a semi auto. Also there is the general use of the 9mm; duty/ concealed carry/ combat pistol sport shooting. None the less....It can make a decent "farmer's gun"
I had to learn Elmer and Skeeter and co. were right as far as they went. A stoutly loaded 44 special, mild magnum is a beautiful thing. So is a heavy bullet .357. a 38-44 is pretty close to handgun heaven. Problem is it is getting harder to get brass and revolvers. I am gravitating more and more towards an accurized Cz 75 as a daily carry gun. I really like a 120 grain lee TC with powder coated bullets. I think I can find the sweet spot with a 147/ 150 grain round flat nose or really big metplat
tc and running 1000-1100 feet per second. It should have plenty of penetration. It should have plenty of bearing surface. anyone have experience with this? Buffalo Bore sells a 147 grain " outdoorsman"
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388. It shouldn't be too hard to duplicate with slower powder. Should be a great all around load for the kinds of things a farmer needs; putting down cattle, shooting small game, killing varmints in the chicken house at night, ect.
I think with the ease of getting used 9mm brass it won't hurt so bad to see a case go in the briar patch. Cz75 and a lot of other full sized 9mms are dead nuts reliable, and can be tuned to acceptable accuracy and not be finicky. Once I get set up I can turn out ammo fast in my Hornady progressive. I can still get wheel weights . Ought to be able to drop WW alloy straight into quench water and then PC for a real simple, straight forward boolit production process. I usually size PC with a Lee push through sizer. Thoughts? anyone have experience with a hard cast 9mm load like this?

[Tom W.]

My CZ 75 SP01 really likes the Lee 358-125-RF sized to .358. The 120 gr TC has to be sized to .357 to be reliable in my CZ. My little LC9s Pro isn't nearly as picky. I can't comment on factory loads or store bought jacketed bullets....

I grew up shooting a Ruger Security Six, and carried a Colt Government model for 40 years. I scoffed at 9mm pistols. I'm older and somewhat wiser now. I still have my SRH .44 mag that really shoots the Lee 310 gr. boolits well, but traded off almost all of my other handguns. Probably foolishly, except for the .454 that I had. I don't miss that pistol at all!

[marshall623]

I run the 120 Lee TC also , I just air cool COWW with a little tin . I bought the lee mold because I wouldnt have much in it if my little gun didnt like cast . It shot great but was getting some leading and I believe it was the bevel base , I cut the bevel out of my mold and cleaned it up . It drops out at 124 gr. and .358 at the base , but leading pretty much gone .

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[tazman]

You have some good ideas there. Most of what you suggest should work fine. Just make sure you size the boolits properly for your barrel.
The only problem I see is, I believe you may be a bit optimistic on the velocity you can get with 147 grain boolits. 1100fps is going to be problematic. I know Buffalo Bore lists that velocity but none of the powder manufacturers and none of the bullet manufacturers list anything in that velocity. Most max out at around 1000fps.
If you can get by with a bit less velocity, you should be in business.

[docmagnum357]

right. Buffalo bore probably uses canister powder we can't get. 100 fps isn't the end of the world. Also no need to beat up my gun

[gnostic]

I like Titegroup and WD 120 grain TC Lee sized .358 in my CZ75. I don't think the CZ75 needs accurizing and mine has gone thousands of rounds without missing a beat. The one thing I don't like about that bullet, is the huge lube groove. Two smaller grooves would allow me to lube one groove if desired rather than two. My CZ oozes bullet lube after a couple hundred rounds.

My CZ doesn't like 147 grain bullets, I'd have to seat them too deep, same for the Lyman 9mm HP Devastator.

[sghart3578]

I too am a revolver man. And a S&W fanatic. I have N, L and K frames as well as Rugers and others.

I like big 44 and 45 caliber bullets and loud booms. But I love my heavy 357 mag loads the most in my M28's and my Marlins.

Having said all of that my sons would not stop nagging me about getting a semi auto in 9mm. I told them that I had a semi auto but they said my 1911 didn't count.

According to them it was time to start using electric lighting and indoor plumbing.

So I started down the 9mm path, wringing out load after load in a CZ PCR and a 1911 conversion kit that I Frankensteined together.

I settled on Accurate #5 and a 124 gr LRN. I get a little over 1100 fps with a near max load. This shoots great in all of our guns including a Hi Point carbine.

I have never gone up to 147 gr but I think 1100 fps is overly optimistic. But I have been wrong before.


Steve in N CA

[WinchesterM1]

I just shot my new cz shadow 2 orange and I liked it with a Noe 135 with 3.9 of bullseye

[Cast_outlaw]

You ca reach your goal I have an 1100fps 158gr load in my 5” Ruger p89 pm me and I will fill you in on the dirty details

[Thumbcocker]

+1 one the Lee 125 rnfp

[tomme boy]

cz has no throat. So you might want to have it throated to be more reliable. Thats what I did.

[WebMonkey]

+1 Lee 125 gn round flat.
I move mine along at 1100fps using titegroup.

[charlie b]

I started to think about developing a Buffalo Bore type load for my field pistols. Then considered how often I would need to shoot it, which was not much.

I decided to buy boxes of Buffalo Bore (.45ACP and 9mm). Keep them stuffed with it when in the field. When shooting at the range I use my regular loads.

And, yes, I fired enough of the commercial bullets to satisfy myself that they will function reliably in my pistols. FWIW, the recoil is a little snappier but not by much. To practice just load max at same bullet weight. It will be a little slower but you won't notice it. The critical part is to know the POI vs aim point for the hotter loads.

PS Be careful when choosing the load, especially for the .45's. Buffalo Bore has some loads that would be above the threshold of some pistols. Read their descriptions carefully before ordering.

PPS I am also a later owner of a 9mm. Always had 1911's and considered that if I am going to carry a full size it should be a .45 :) Now I have an HK 9mm and I like it a lot. Cheap to feed and very accurate. Modern bullet designs make it suitable for my uses.

[Burnt Fingers]

cz has no throat. So you might want to have it throated to be more reliable. Thats what I did.

The majority of 9mm pistols on the market have no throat. It seems no one is actually cutting 9mm chambers to spec.

[StrawHat]

I am a fan of N frames. The only “fault” I can see with the reasoning of the OP is while revolvers are less common, you only need one. Brass is easier to reclaim with a revolver than a self loader.

But, I have a HiPower so I am interested in this thread.

Kevin

[oldsalt444]

I have an old school S&W 910 that I use in CMP service pistol matches. My practice load is a 122 gr. lead TC bullet over 4.5 gr. of Green Dot. Accurate and recoil wasn't quite so snappy. If you're looking for a stiff, high velocity load for a 147 gr., then Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook lists 6.3 - 7.1 gr. of Accurate #7 for 1061 FPS, and 4.1 - 4.6 gr. of Power Pistol for 1033 FPS. I've never tried Accurate #7, but I use Power Pistol for my match loads. Power Pistol is arguably the best powder out there for 9mm, IMHO.

[docmagnum357]

I've used CFE pistol, and auto comp, never power pistol. I keep some #7 around. I figure there is some wiggle room, but 1100 fps isn't a set in stone goal. Better to never exceed published data. Especially over 40 silly fps. 7 grains of #7 might prove to be a good load if it is accurate and clean. It seems to be clean in other 9mm loads I use it in.
I am thinking of having the Cz throated, lead changed to be more friendly to cast. Poster that said most 9mms have to throat is right. I reload for two Berettas and a Cz75, and some other pistols from time to time for freinds. Not much throat in any of them.

[Petrol & Powder]

docmagnum357 - I'm going to address some of your points from your first post.

You seem to be coming at the 9mm with a bit of a negative attitude.
You wrote: ".....Not a bad round if you overlook fast twist, high pressure, tapered case, limited case capacity, and overall length that must fit a semi auto. Also there is the general use of the 9mm; duty/ concealed carry/ combat pistol sport shooting. None the less....It can make a decent "farmer's gun"..... "

WOW, no preconceived notions there ;)

I'm not sure if you're being a bit facetious or if you really feel the 9mm is a bad cartridge that you are being forced to accept in today's world.

A 9mm certainly isn't a 240+ grain bullet fired from a 44 mag but that doesn't mean it is a horrible round. It almost sounds as if you're accepting defeat before you start.

The 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Luger, 9 x 19, whatever you want to call it; has been with us since 1902. It is different from the revolver cartridges you mentioned but it is capable of very fine accuracy and, believe it or not....., rather impressive terminal performance. However, it relies more on velocity than mass to achieve that terminal performance.

I am a firm believer that the 9mm does its best work in the 115 - 125 grain range. The "heavy for caliber" 147 grain loads rob the 9mm of its overall performance. While there's no doubt the 147 grain projectiles can be very accurate, they are just moving too slow to get the best out of that cartridge. The classic American fallacy that " Bigger Must Be Better" plays a large part in the attitudes towards heavy 9mm projectiles. The 147 grain projectile was a sub-sonic round developed for use with suppressors and it caught a following as a standard 9mm projectile. It belongs in suppressed guns and no place else; IMO. I will not deny its accuracy potential but it really takes away from the 9mm's true performance capabilities.

A 125 grain 9mm +P is not quite in 357 magnum territory but it's getting close and it does it in a high capacity, magazine fed pistol.
A 125 gain, .357" (ish) diameter bullet, travelling in the neighborhood of 1100-1200 fps is nothing to sneeze at.

I share your views on the CZ-75 pistol. It is an excellent platform capable of fine accuracy. It is also durable and reliable. The full length, inside the frame slide rails, contribute to its accuracy. The steel frame is durable. The grip is one of the best for a double stack mag and they are reasonably priced. By 1980's standards the CZ-75 was about average in terms of weight; by today's standards it's a bit heavy for a carry gun in that class.
After 117 years with the 9mm Luger cartridge, we have a LOT of pistols to choose from. I would encourage you to broaden your search a bit. The CZ is a great pistol but it is not the only pistol.

As for you questions concerning reloading for the 9mm and bullet production, I can say that EVERY 9mm pistol is a story to its own. One of the drawbacks I've encountered with reloading for the 9mm is the need to load for an individual pistol. Chambers, groove diameter, throats, feed ramps, magazine length, etc., are all over the map in 9mm pistols. You're going to have to get the gun first and then load to the gun.
The 120 gr TC seems to be one of the more universal profiles that works in a lot of pistols AND is an excellent performer to boot. Even there you will need to match the load to the gun. I can't speak to powder coating because I have no experience with it. It would seem to me that if one was going to powder coat for 9mm projectiles, a bullet without lube grooves would give you more bearing surface without needing a heavier bullet.


Keep us informed.

[Drm50]

I've had 9mm dies for years as well as molds. I owned an assortment of 9mm pistols, mostly military. I had Brn Hi-Powers, S&W 39s and one 1911. Never really got into much special loading for them. A few years ago I got a FN High Power competition model. This pistol shoots very well, close to K38 accuracy win Win Target. So I thought I could do better with cast. I have used 20 different boolits, different sizers and powder. I can't get it to shoot worth a hoot with any cast boolit. I have never encountered this in over 50yrs of reloading. It's got me baffled.

[Tracy]

I see what you did there! :lol: So did you intentionally start this thread on that exact date (9-19), or did it just happen that way?

I agree with your assessment of the 9x19 as a farmer's round. I have a 9mm cylinder in an old model Blackhawk that works fine for that purpose. Free brass is a good thing!

My bullets of choice come from a couple of Lee 6-cavity molds: the .356-124 TLTC and the .358-158 RF. I'm ok with 800-900 fps so i use fast powders like Bullseye. For higher velocity I like medium burners like Herco, 800X and Blue Dot.

[winelover]

Well said, Petrol & Powder!

Winelover

[docmagnum357]

Lots of good info here. I wasn't being facetious, lots working against the 9mm. I have managed to get consistent 10 shot, 2.25 " groups with my CZ 75, about as good as I have been able to come up with Both My Beretta PX4s do under 3" consistently, but sized nearly .358. This is with the lee 120 grain TC, powder coated. I worked up a load with the 105 round flat nose that the book says should shoot about 1350 fps, and it isn't very accurate, but it hits hard wit the big metplat. I can honestly say it does as much damage to wet targets as a good hollow point. Can't say about game because I haven't hit anything with it , yet! It ought to be poison on groundhog, even coyote sized game. Very short bearing surface, and it is a tumble lube design. I am going to try it with straight wheel weights, see what happens. Might tighten the groups up a bit. Maybe a wide metplat round flat would be better in a lot of ways. I wonder about the ultimate penetration of a 100ish grain boolit at 1300- 1400 as opposed to a heavier boolit 150 odd grains, at 1000- 1100. I am positive the faster speed would do more damage than the lower speed, heavier projectile in small game, varmints. Interesting thoughts.

[JBinMN]

I wonder about the ultimate penetration of a 100ish grain boolit at 1300- 1400 as opposed to a heavier boolit 150 odd grains, at 1000- 1100. I am positive the faster speed would do more damage than the lower speed, heavier projectile in small game, varmints. Interesting thoughts.

The load calculator used at the source link below says you are likely correct with your last sentence.

I used middle of your parameters of "1300 - 1400", and "1000 - 1100" from your post above.

Load One
Weight in grains 120
Velocity in fps 1350
Caliber in inches .356

Energy (ft-lbs) 485
Momentum 23
Taylor KO 8

Load Two

Weight in grains 150
Velocity in fps 1050
Caliber in inches .356

Energy (ft-lbs) 367
Momentum 22
Taylor KO 8

Data taken from the Energy Calculator at: https://web.archive.org/web/20170909002413/http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp

[MT Gianni]

Should be a great all around load for the kinds of things a farmer needs; putting down cattle, shooting small game, killing varmints in the chicken house at night, ect.
?

Since what you are describing was done with a 22 lr for decades the 9 should work also. You seem more familiar with revolvers. A K frame 38 should do as well with somewhat more versatility including the ability to use 200 gr bullets.

[docmagnum357]

Gianni, you are right. I never have been able to shoot ANYTHING as accurately or as quickly as a K, L, or N frame S& W. I loaded 200 grain bullets in a 38 with great accuracy, as good as wadcutters. 357 will kill anything east of the Mississippi no problem. 38 wadcutters are even good for squirrel hunting. People don't believe it but you can make major power factor with a 200 grain 38 special and NON +p pressure. Just have to use 2400 or 4227. Spooky accurate, too.
Besides that, I have entered the stage of life called " old Fart". I am ornery, opinionated, and just don't like fuss and bother anymore. I could probably do anything you can do with a handgun with a 6" barrel K, L, or N frame, in 357. I concealed carried an N frame in Simply Rugged Sourdough for a long time. I think this round of head scratching has led me back to my roots. I guess I ought to trade off all my semi autos except my 1911 and get back into revolvers. Sure would be simpler.

[tazman]

No, no, no. You have to keep at least one non-1911 semi-auto around just to get your blood stirred up once in a while.
Keeping things simple always sounds good but it gets boring when there isn't anything left to figure out.
I own a number of revolvers that shoot fine. I shoot them well and I have loads for them that work really well.
If I don't have something that gives me fits once in a while, I will go buy something that I have to figure out all over again.
Then I run into having the wife ask me why I bought a gun that gives me problems. I can't tell her I need something to challenge me.

[docmagnum357]

:d:d:d:d:d

[Pops1911]

Gee, the last thing I needed was to join another forum, but I stumbled across this thread while checking various sites for some 9mm load data and could not resist piping up. In full disclosure I have not cast any bullets in many years, but I load a lot of them in various calibers.

All the talk about S&W N frames took me back many years when at one time I had them in 45 LC, 357 Mag, 44 Mag, L frame in 32 Mag, plus a couple of Pythons and for many years these were what I shot. Then one fateful day I dug a Colt Goldcup 1911 out of the safe and took it to the range, and as the saying goes” that was history.” I found that I could shoot the 1911 better than any of my revolvers and despite having to chase brass I began the transition to 1911s. All my revolvers but one Python were sold to grow my 1911 stable. For many years the 1911 was synonymous with the 45 ACP for me. Then one day a 1911 commander in 9mm followed me home. This started my love affair for the 9mm. At current count I have 8 guns in 9mm from Sig, Nighthawk, CZ, and Browning. At my age the 9mm is very pleasant to shoot which facilitates putting several 100 rounds down range per outing.

In conclusion, yes I do miss my ole revolvers, but I definitely do not regret my transition to the 9mm.

[tejano]

Once upon a time my handguns in 45 acp easily outnumbered those in 9mm, but that is no more. Now I have at least a dozen semi autos and 1 revolver in 9mm. The search accuracy in the 9mm is far more challenging.

[dverna]

For a “farmers gun”, an LEO Glock trade-in could be worth considering. Cheap, reliable, and accurate enough. And if it gets dinged up, no big deal.

I would lean towards a bullet near 125 gr. I practice with the 122 TC and carry 124 Gold Dots. For the number of times I might want to shoot something, I leave the Gold Dots in all the time. Switch to cast bullets for plinking.

[WinchesterM1]

I have over 20 pistols and rifles in 9mm. 9mm for me has replaced the 22lr I use a Mihec custom 8 cavity 135 fn for PC over 3.8 grn of bullseye. I have killed possums,coons, cats dogs and even took a deer last year with that load.

I use Mixed brass with fiochhi primers boolits sized to .358 and everyone of my guns eat it up my Cz-75 doesn’t like to eat them but it does 99.9% of the time. I’ve got it down to about $45-55 a thousand to load over the past 6 years my friends and I have shot over 87,000 of these loads, i shoot around 4-500 an evening in my own personal shooting range

[tazman]

Now you have me feeling inadequate. I only have eight 9mm handguns, one of which is a revolver.
I use 120, 125, 135, 147, and 155 grain boolits just to see what I can make work. I use a variety of powders as well.
I have a couple of pistols that are a little picky as to diameter for chambering purposes, but they have match barrels on them. The majority will eat anything.
The revolver is easiest to load for(S&W 929). You don't need to worry about working the action, so light loads are really fun in that one. Don't have to worry about overall length either due to the cylinder being so much longer than a magazine.

[docmagnum357]

WinchesterM1, that is kinda what I have in mind. Replacement for 22/ 38. At my point on the "journey" caliber doesn't matter much anymore. I just need a lot of accurate( enough) cheap ammo and a kind of universal load that will kill what needs killing and still keep me tuned up for target and defensive work.
I used to have a closet full of rifles. Switched to 5.56 / ar 15 and never looked back. it ia accurate enough, light enough, durable enough and easy to load well. I can do without the fast twist, short barrel, etc., etc, etc. but it works. I have worked up a more or less universal load with a tipped 69 grain match king that works on deer groundhogs, coyotes, sighted it at 150 yards. Weird, I know, but I never shoot over 200 yards., so a 150 yard zero is perfect. it just works. I have a rack on the 4 wheeler, and in the truck. have a good place to put it on the tractor. Want to accomplish the same with handguns.I think Winchester gets the idea.

[docmagnum357]

Sorry for the thread drift, but I had another thought.
I might be barking up the wrong tree with heavy bullets. MOMENTUM is the factor, and SD. Now, I know that a lighter bullet at higher velocity will have the same momentum at some speed as a heavier one at a lower speed. I also know the lighter one will have more DRAG with the same nose profile because of the higher velocity. It works that way in air and more so in an actual fluid, i.e. gel or meat. Since the lead is the most expensive component, might be better to go with a lighter bullet with a big fat metplat. NOW, with a lighter boolit and fatter metplat you get a lot less bearing surface and an over all length that isn't as good for feeding....
Suppose we went with a hollow base boolit mold? I know the wider the metplat, the higher the speed, the better the killing power. I am not a 100% Veral Smith acolyte, but darned it he isn't on to something. If the boolit was lengthened out due to a hollow base it would increase stability by putting more weight out front, it would very likely seal the bore much better, even if the tapered internals of a 9mm "crimped" the "skirt". Better bearing surface. I have shot 148 HB wadcutters fast enough to blow the skirt off them in 38special. We're talking a HARD boolit here for potential 9mm boolit, both as an aid to "grip" in the barrel and to help with penetration. I tried the rf 95 grain Lee tumble lube in 9mm. It hits like a truck! Problem is I never got a load at over 1300fps to group better than about 3.5". If we had similar weight and a hollow base and the resulting longer bearing surface maybe it would solve the accuracy problem? A perfect fit in the bore caused by expansion woukd surely help accuracy from gun to gun. Hollow base would be easier to work with all the different internal dimensions on 9mm brass, brand to brand. Probably be a better benefit than a bevel base. Have to be careful not to make the 'Skirt" too weak. 9mm is a lot more pressure tha a 38 wadcutter load.
has anyone tried anything like this? I am almost curious enough to have a mold cut if there isn't one out there.

[Pipejaw]

I've had 9mm dies for years as well as molds. I owned an assortment of 9mm pistols, mostly military. I had Brn Hi-Powers, S&W 39s and one 1911. Never really got into much special loading for them. A few years ago I got a FN High Power competition model. This pistol shoots very well, close to K38 accuracy win Win Target. So I thought I could do better with cast. I have used 20 different boolits, different sizers and powder. I can't get it to shoot worth a hoot with any cast boolit. I have never encountered this in over 50yrs of reloading. It's got me baffled.

I had the same problem with my hi power and found severe barrel leading. So after a really good cleaning with a lead remover and powder coating my lee 120 tc bullets that the leading was gone and it is wonderfully accurate now.

[Drm50]

That's not my problem, bores like a new dime. This pistol is the exact opposite of any other I've owned. I've got a bucket of good handguns and they all shoot better with cast once you hit on the diameter, bullet & load. You can't push them as fast but that's not a concern to me because most are for target.

[docmagnum357]

I think I figured it out, lol. Just shoot my 1911 and 625 with h&g 68 and be happy. Both are pretty accurate. Both work well, varmints to deer. A little harder to get 45 acp brass cheap anymore, but it is still out there.

[scattershot]

In your original post, you mentioned the uses for your pistol around the farm. All of those can be and have been taken care of with a .22. The 9mm is a quantum leap above that, so don’t worry about effectiveness. My favorite loads in the 9mm are either a 124 grain or 147 grain bullet over 4.0 Red Dot powder. I get 1050 fps with the 124 grain, and 950 with the 147. None of the targets I have shot with these loads have complained.

Your 1911 is an excellent choice, as well.

[ACC]

OR you could be like me. I carry an original S&W Model 59, and have for years. It will eat anything I feed it including the cheap Russian stuff. For daily care I have it loaded with Sig Saur 124 grain HP at about 1100 FPS. It will shoot into the same whole everyday at 30 meters. When I took my LTC here in San Antonio the instructor said it was a Grandpas gun for a Grandpa, although I am not a Grandpa. I had the highest qualifying score in a class of 35. But then I have a advantage. I was taught by my Grandpa to shoot with both eyes open.

ACC

[kens]

I am similar to the OP, I grew up on revolvers, and 45acp for autos.
The 9mm looks wimpy next to 45acp that I grew up on.
But that all changed when I got a little Marlin Camp 9 carbine, it accepted S&W 59 magazines.
OMG!! What a hoot to shoot. Can you say fun plinker??
With 9mm ammo the next cheapest ammo next to .22, it is a fun gun.
And, when the 9mm is shot through a carbine barrel, it grows a whole lot in power.
The carbine did the trick for me, and, if you had a pistol with properly fitting chamber/cartridge, no doubt the power and accuracy both go up at same time.

[steve urquell]

I've always been a revolver, slow fire, single-shot rifle guy. Never had an auto centerfire pistol until recently and only bought one so I could have something to suppress. Love my CZ SP-01. All steel heavy pistol and very accurate. 9mm is a fun cheap lil cartridge to reload for.
https://i.imgur.com/p1EhcsV.jpg

[tejano]

I recently purchased a CZ Shadow 2 Blue and I love it!

[steve urquell]

I recently purchased a CZ Shadow 2 Blue and I love it!

CZ 75 variants are some finely built pistols. Congrats.

[ACC]

One thing I can say about my Model 59 is it is nice to have 16 trys to hit the bad guy if I have to.

ACC

[Cary Gunn]

I'll cast my vote -- along with several other forum members responding to this thread -- for the Lee 358/125/RF.

Yes, it's really intended as a revolver slug, but, when motivated by 5 grains of Unique, it does just fine in my Kahr CM9 pocket pistol.

Happy trails,

-- Cary Gunn --

[charlie b]

Thanks for that vote as well. I was trying to figure out if I could get one mold that would work for my .357 as well as my 9mm and was looking at that one. I powder coat so the lack of gas check is ok. Think I will go for it.