Possible issues with the Dillon 550c

[asmith80]

A few months ago I switched from a Lee Classic Turret press to a Dillon 550c. On the Lee I was using RCBS dies with a Lee taper crimp die and a Lee powder thru expander. When I bought the 550 I also got all new Dillon dies.

The only thing I've changed is the press and the dies. The OAL of the cartridges is the same, powder charge is the same, crimp is the same and the boolit I'm using is the same.

So here's the issue: when I load 9mm, about 1 or 2 in every 10 rounds does not want to go fully into battery. Sometimes I can smack the back of the slide to get it in, other times I have to rack the slide and eject the round. Most of the time it's hard enough getting the stuck round out that I have to use the edge of a table.

I've tried multiple pistols, many of which have been throated by DougGuy and I still get this issue. The stuck rounds fit just fine in a case gauge.

At this point I've reset the Dillon dies multiple times, following the instructions exactly and it still happens. I know Dillon makes quality stuff and I have a hard time believing it's the equipment, but at this point I have no other idea. I use the 550 to load 45ACP, 38 spl and 300 blackout using non-Dillon dies and I don't have this issue.

Anybody have any ideas?

[lefty o]

if they fit a gauge, and pass the plunk test, try a different bullet profile, or different seating depth.

[dverna]

Try the RCBS dies on the Dillon. If they solve the problem, return the Dillon dies for exchange or credit.

[Winger Ed.]

If a empty sized brass fits OK, that'll tell ya if the dies are good or and/set right...or not.
And be sure the shell plate is tight, and doesn't wobble.

Paint the boolit with a sharpie, and look for marks of the rifling grooves on the nose to tell ya there is a seating depth issue.

[asmith80]

I don't think it's a seating depth issue. I'm using the same OAL, 1.09, as I did when I used the RCBS dies and had no trouble. None of the stuck rounds show signs of jamming in the rifling.

I've tried the MP 125gr HP and the 125 gr SWC and I have the issue with both

I'd have to rebuy the RCBS dies since I sold them a few months ago, but I'm seriously thinking of getting them anyway and trying

[MrWolf]

I don't mean to sound smart but are you sure OAL is the same? Do you have a loaded round from the RCBS dies to compare? It almost sounds like a crimp issue in that you are slightly bulging or creating a lip. Good luck.
Ron

[asmith80]

That's a fair question, and it hadn't occurred to me to check it. Luckily I have a bunch of older rounds and I just verified that they're the same within .005 inches. Cases do look a little bulged where the bullet is seated but I think that's more a result of the M die style expander I'm using than crimp. I can get some photos up after work today so you can see what I'm talking about

[Dan Cash]

If you have a bulge from an "M" die you have not crimped the round enough. A taper crimp die should not leave or cause any bulge at the case mouth.

[C.F.Plinker]

Does an empty case that you have expanded with the M die pass the plunk test by itself. If they do then the problem is with the seating or crimping.

[rbt5050]

I have the same problem with 223 and I use a redding small base die. so I do all my sizing on a different press and still some times I have to run the case through a couple of times. I was thinking it might be the case thickness.

[jmorris]

If everything worked fine before, I suppose still does since you bought a new press and new dies, are both still setup? You could do a side by side at that point, to eliminate variables.

1 or 2 every 10 rounds fails, so take 20 cases and size them on your LCT then put them in the 550 and charge, seat then crimp them.

Now take 20 cases and size charge and seat the bullet on the LCT and crimp on the 1050.

Last take 20 cases and size them on the 550 and finish them out on the LCT.

With the results from those 60 rounds, you will know exactly what to do.

[asmith80]

That's a good idea, I'll give that a shot. I re ordered some RCBS dies so I could recreate my old setup, and I do still have the LCT.

Something else just occurred to me. On the old setup I was using a 32 S&W expander plug for the Lee powder thru die to get enough expansion for my .358 sized boolits. Now I'm using a funnel for the Dillon powder die that expands the case to .358. Anybody know what the Lee 32 S&W plug expanded the case to? Maybe my Dillon version expands too aggressively

[jmorris]

If ALL of your rounds casegauge and plunk I am really at a loss, I was just suggesting a little back track to find the problem. As at one point everything was fine using the same component as before.

[sigep1764]

Is the correct seating stem being used? The newer Dillon dies for 9mm have a pin that can be pulled out. The seating stem can then be removed. Each end of the stem had a different profile. Is the end you are using have a flat or round profile? My guess is your chambers might be tighter than your check gauge. Using the wrong profile can seat the boolit crooked creating a slight bulge to one side of the brass case. Check it out and let us know.

[engineer401]

I had a Lee crimping my that wouldn’t work in my 550B. The Lee die simply wasn’t long enough. I don’t know if that’s your issue but it may be worth looking into.

[asmith80]

Using flat point boolits with the flat side of the seating stem. I can't see a visible cant to the boolits

RCBS dies should get here today, so I can start testing out where the issue may be if it's a die issue

[Petrol & Powder]

That's a fair question, and it hadn't occurred to me to check it. Luckily I have a bunch of older rounds and I just verified that they're the same within .005 inches. Cases do look a little bulged where the bullet is seated but I think that's more a result of the M die style expander I'm using than crimp. I can get some photos up after work today so you can see what I'm talking about

What "M" die style expander are you referring to? In your first post you stated that the only things to changed was the press and dies. Did you change the powder funnel as well ?

I think the RCBS dies may fix your issue but I think the powder funnel (if it is still a Dillon powder funnel) will be the real fix. I don' think the press has anything to do with the issue.
Dillon powder funnels (which do not have a Lyman "M" type step) tend to be a bit small for cast bullets. Using a custom powder funnel from Lathesmith will correct that issue. Uniquetek also makes a replacement Dillon Funnel (powder through expander stem).
During seating you may be deforming the bullet slightly as you overcome that tight casing that wasn't expanded enough by the Dillon powder funnel.

Dillon make an awesome press but they seem to be geared towards jacketed bullets. I've had good experience with Dillon dies but most of my Dillon toolheads hold a mixture of dies from other makers. As much as I love Dillon equipment, their powder funnels tend to be sized a bit on the small size.

[asmith80]

I'm actually using a plug from Lathesmith. He made me up one that is .358 in diameter and has an M style step. One of the things I'm concerned about is that it may be expanding things a little too much. When I was using the Lee PTX on my old setup, I had a 38 s&w plug in there, which if I recall, only measures .356.

My thinking is if expanding out to .358 is right at the edge of too much then a slight difference in case thickness may be causing the periodic jams I'm getting. But I'm just guessing here

[kungfustyle]

Just a thought, check the col of the brass. If they are short/long that could be causing all kinds of fun. I have a 45acp that is very finicky and once I started trimming my brass all my problems went away. Save the ones that don't go into battery and pull the bullets measure the brass, that may be your culprit.

[jmorris]

My thinking is if expanding out to .358 is right at the edge of too much then a slight difference in case thickness may be causing the periodic jams I'm getting. But I'm just guessing here

Are you “plunk” testing every round you load into and out of the barrel before you try and fire them?

If they fall into and out of the barrel before they are even loaded into a magazine, something subsequently must alter them if they later won’t fit into the chamber.

[asmith80]

Not every round, no. I have a 100 round case gauge and what I typically do is fill it up as I go. Most of the rounds I put in there sit ever so slightly proud (I'm talking half the width of the rim is sticking out) and if I press down on them with light pressure I can usually get them to sit flush in the gauge. I haven't really thought of this as the culprit, since the rounds that feed and load fine and the ones that jam me up all look identical in the gauge.

It does feel like I'm squeezing them in the gauge when I press down, however. So maybe that's got something to do with my problem

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm actually using a plug from Lathesmith. He made me up one that is .358 in diameter and has an M style step. One of the things I'm concerned about is that it may be expanding things a little too much. When I was using the Lee PTX on my old setup, I had a 38 s&w plug in there, which if I recall, only measures .356.

My thinking is if expanding out to .358 is right at the edge of too much then a slight difference in case thickness may be causing the periodic jams I'm getting. But I'm just guessing here

So you DID change more than just the press and the dies. Your first post didn't speak to the expander.
I agree with your assessment that the powder funnel (powder through expander or "plug" by your terminology) could be the issue.

[asmith80]

Yeah, sorry I didn't make that clear. I never used the stock Dillon funnel, so many people told me it wouldn't work with cast I just got one from Lathesmith immediately and started using that

[sigep1764]

When I was setting up my crimp die, I measured the thickness of the wall of the brass case, multiplied it by 2, and added that to the .358 measurement of my boolits. Then I ran that seated case into the crimp die til I got that measurement. Lastly, I lined up my 9mm barrels and plunk tested it. The CZ 75B was slightly tight, but the round slid into the Walther and Glock barrels without issue.

[asmith80]

I did the same and I had a similar experience with my CZs. A little light pressure got the round in all the way, but it didn't just plop in like in my Beretta. I've also got a lot of different brass brands, so I set the crimp to work with the thickest and went from there

[Burnt Fingers]

There's a pretty high signal to noise ratio in this post.

1. Millions of 9mm rounds are loaded every month with a 550 and Dillon dies. I've loaded 2K worth of 9mm in the past week on my 650 with Dillon dies.
2. Your case gauge is VERY tight. In fact IMHO those 100 round case gauges are worthless when you're loading with a bullet that's over jacketed size. I use a .357 boolit for loading 9mm as I have some pistols that have a oversized bore, a 9mm round with a .357 boolit won't fit in ANY case gauge I've seen. Use your barrel.
3. Put the Dillon powder funnel in there and see if it works. I use custom funnels for my reloading, I got them from UniqueTek, they've been making those funnels for a long time.
4. Can anyone figure out why a flared case won't fit in a case gauge? If so raise your hand.
5. Make ABSOLUTELY sure your dies are set up correctly. The resizing die needs to TOUCH the shell plate, WHEN the shell plate is fully populated.
6. Make sure your shell plate is tightened correctly.
7. If the resized cases fit into the case gauge and fall out, then the problem is somewhere else in the loading stream.
8. Make sure your crimp die is set correctly.
9. If you're loading a boolit with a defined shoulder, like a true SWC, get the SWC bullet seating stems from UniqueTek. They are the bee's knees.
10. If all else fails, call Dillon.

[Coyote3]

I had a similar problem with rounds not fully chambering. Turned out to be a small accumulation of PC at the end of the chamber. Chucked a .40 cal brush in a hand drill and ran it in the chamber for about 5 seconds. That took care of my problem. Worth a try.

[asmith80]

I think I may have figured it out. I got the RCBS dies in the mail today so I was able to recreate my old setup and systematically go through like jmorris suggested and try each Dillon die until I recreate my issue. It looks like it's the powder funnel over expanding the case. Measured the case thickness on the ones that were jamming and sure enough they were thicker than the ones that fed with no issue.

I'm going to turn down the stem of the powder funnel to .357 or .356 and run some more tests, especially with the thicker cases.

[nicholst55]

I had a Lee crimping my that wouldn’t work in my 550B. The Lee die simply wasn’t long enough. I don’t know if that’s your issue but it may be worth looking into.

The free solution to that is to install the lock ring on the bottom of the toolhead, rather than the top. Newer Lee dies are made slightly longer, to eliminate this problem.

[jmorris]

It looks like it's the powder funnel over expanding the case.

You might try the one Dillon sent vs the aftermarket one. Just two socket head cap screws to remove the measure and swap them out. FWIW I have never used any “special” powder funnels in any of my Dillon’s for cast bullets.

[Walter Laich]

You might try the one Dillon sent vs the aftermarket one. Just two socket head cap screws to remove the measure and swap them out. FWIW I have never used any “special” powder funnels in any of my Dillon’s for cast bullets.

not to take this thread down a rabbit hole but I went with aftermarket powder funnels for my 45 Colt/44 Mag and 38/357 set ups.

The after market will expand the case further down without increasing the belling of the mouth.

helps me place the bullet 'square on the case at position 3.

There was a bit of $$ involved but worth in for me--I try to enjoy reloading as much as possible

[asmith80]

So I loaded up 100 rounds yesterday after turning down the powder funnel stem. All but two sat flush in the case gauge and the two that were (very slightly) proud plunked easily in my CZ P10F barrel, which has the tightest chamber of all my pistols.

Now I'm going back through all my loaded 9mm and putting everything through the case gauge. If it sits flush it goes in the good ammo bin, if it doesn't but passes the plunk test I'm segregating it for now so I can test individually to see if it'll still function fine. If it doesn't pass either test it goes in a bin to be broken down

[jmorris]

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[imashooter2]

The Dillion sizing dies have a flare to allow easier case placement. As a result, they don’t size to the base and sometimes the cartridges won’t fit a tight chamber.

[Rick459]

the problem using the early lee short dies on a 550 and trying to put the lock nut on the bottom of the tool head is that the lock nut will hit the the shell plate indexer fingers and won't let the shell plate go all the way to the top to complete the cycle. had this problem yesterday when trying to install a lee .357 carbide sizer die in the tool head. when screwed down to touch the shell plate i only had 2 threads on the die showing at the top of the die and putting the dillon lock nut on the bottom of the die the lock nut would hit the shell plate indexer fingers. so i took the dillon lock nut and and used my belt sander and took a little of it until i was able use it at the top of the die. it only held on by only 2 threads but it seems ok as i loaded 100 rounds on it and all is still tight.

[Life Member]

Had a similar thing happen to me in a 1911. Tried all kinds of reloading adjustments, nothing. Put a heaver wolf return spring in all good.

[RSB]

When I load major 45 ACP match ammo on my 550 I Roll and full length size. I trim and gauge all the brass after this point. Sometimes the rims get distorted or have burrs. If the brass falls in and out I load it. Despite this I still get a few rounds that will not gauge after loading. I'm not speaking of the ones where the bullet is Katy whom-pus either. Look straight, but wont gauge. I add those to the practice ammo lots. Personally I am not fond of the Dillon dies.

[Burnt Fingers]

When I load major 45 ACP match ammo on my 550 I Roll and full length size. I trim and gauge all the brass after this point. Sometimes the rims get distorted or have burrs. If the brass falls in and out I load it. Despite this I still get a few rounds that will not gauge after loading. I'm not speaking of the ones where the bullet is Katy whom-pus either. Look straight, but wont gauge. I add those to the practice ammo lots. Personally I am not fond of the Dillon dies.

What diameter of bullets are you using?

I know that as long as I use .452 everything will gauge just fine. My reject rate for .45 ACP coming off my Dillon 650 with Dillon dies is around 0.1-.0.2%. If I go up to .453 bullets it jumps to around 10-15%. Big difference.

[Mitch]

I'm actually using a plug from Lathesmith. He made me up one that is .358 in diameter and has an M style step. One of the things I'm concerned about is that it may be expanding things a little too much. When I was using the Lee PTX on my old setup, I had a 38 s&w plug in there, which if I recall, only measures .356.

My thinking is if expanding out to .358 is right at the edge of too much then a slight difference in case thickness may be causing the periodic jams I'm getting. But I'm just guessing here

I had the same thing happen with my home brew expander.it is set up like an M die.when i run it a bit to deep in the case.the step from the M die setup is to deep and my crimp setup will not take all the step out.if this is the problem there will be a spot just below the crimp that is to big.Back off the M die a bit and it will go away.Hope this helps