C Sharps 1885 firing pin breakage

[LynC2]

I've had two firing pins break in my new C Sharps 1885 in under 500 rounds. The first one I figured was bad luck, but the 2nd one in less than 100 rounds fired is just ridiculous. No dry firing without a cartridge being fired, so that's not the problem which only leaves two possible answers in my opinion. Either bad luck or something is wrong with the way they are made. That could get very expensive giving the cost of new firing pins. Fortunately I have a lathe so I drilled a hole in the center and installed a new pin in both. Doubt I'll have a problem now. Just curious if anyone else has experienced excessive breakage with theirs.

[oldred]

Fortunately I have a lathe so I drilled a hole in the center and installed a new pin in both??????????

[NSB]

I've had two firing pins break in my new C Sharps 1885 in under 500 rounds. The first one I figured was bad luck, but the 2nd one in less than 100 rounds fired is just ridiculous. No dry firing without a cartridge being fired, so that's not the problem which only leaves two possible answers in my opinion. Either bad luck or something is wrong with the way they are made. That could get very expensive giving the cost of new firing pins. Fortunately I have a lathe so I drilled a hole in the center and installed a new pin in both. Doubt I'll have a problem now. Just curious if anyone else has experienced excessive breakage with theirs.
Wrong.....you have to put the gun on half cock before opening the lever. If you don't do that, you'll break firing pins. That's not a secret, it's probably in your owners manual.

[oldred]

Wrong.....you have to put the gun on half cock before opening the lever. If you don't do that, you'll break firing pins. That's not a secret, it's probably in your owners manual.

No not on an 1885, it is a HighWall/LowWall so placing on half cock is not necessary. However you may have pinpointed the problem, the cam mechanism that lifts the hammer as the lever is opened may not be working correctly. This is easily verified by watching the hammer as the lever is opened, it should fall back to near half cock BEFORE the breech block starts to fall.

[ian45662]

The action of the highwall brings the hammer back on its own. I have put 6 or 7000 rounds through my c sharps highwall with the original pin but I do have one on back up just in case. A friend of mine has a c sharps 74 and he is constantly feeding it firing pins.


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[Lead pot]

It sounds like a heat treat issue. Too brittle

[BrentD]

Wrong.....you have to put the gun on half cock before opening the lever. If you don't do that, you'll break firing pins. That's not a secret, it's probably in your owners manual.

I don't do that. Heck, my rifle doesn't even have a half-cock. A properly timed highwall will not have that issue.

[NSB]

No not on an 1885, it is a HighWall/LowWall so placing on half cock is not necessary. However you may have pinpointed the problem, the cam mechanism that lifts the hammer as the lever is opened may not be working correctly. This is easily verified by watching the hammer as the lever is opened, it should fall back to near half cock BEFORE the breech block starts to fall.

You're right, I just saw "Sharps" and my mind went to the wrong gun. When I see Sharps I head right to the 1874 side hammer.

[edp2k]

Possibly the FP hole in the breech block has a sharp shoulder/edge inside it,
and a shoulder/edge/radius on the FP hits it when the hammer drives the FP forward.

You may want to consider pulling the FP and shining a bright light in the FP hole
and inspecting it with a magnifier and a probe (e.g. a dental pick)
looking for a sharp or abrupt edge in the FP hole.

Or maybe even a cerrosafe casting of the FP channel in the breech block.
Be advised, if the cerrosafe casting locks itself in due to a ridge/burr,
you may need to warm/boil the whole breech block to get the cerrosafe out :)

[LynC2]

Fortunately I have a lathe so I drilled a hole in the center and installed a new pin in both??????????

I'm not sure of your question. I merely indexed the broken firing pin base in a lathe chuck, drilled a hole of the correct size and red loctited a new contoured pin in place. A simple operation that should work very well. The tip of the firing pin broke off flush and was merely replaced. Photo courtesy of DZ Arms, another good place to do business.
248517

[LynC2]

It sounds like a heat treat issue. Too brittle

I tend to believe that also.

[M-Tecs]

I have two originals Winchester and I have not have any issues. I have read about timing issues leading to firing pin breakage. Something to check into in addition to the heat treatment of the C Sharps pins. http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21666

[RedlegEd]

Hi LynC2. In your OP, you said “new” C. Sharps. Did you contact them and give them a chance to fix it? They make great rifles and I’m sure they’d like to know if one of theirs wasn’t up to their high standard. Ed

[earlmck]

My C. Sharps 1885 also broke a firing pin. I got a replacement for $35 plus shipping, then thought while I had a new one as a model I'd do like LynC2 and drill a hole and cement in a new pin. My broken firing pin is harder than the hubs of hell and I'm going to have to have something better than my tungsten carbide coated drill bit to get a hole in there.

So I'm agreeing with Lead Pot -- heat treating issue getting them too dang hard. I have a jillion rounds through a Winchester High wall and a jillion and a half through an old low wall and never broke a pin. This C. Sharps was up to maybe 3 or 4 hundred shots when it broke even though it is probably a 10-year old one.

[LynC2]

I have two originals Winchester and I have not have any issues. I have read about timing issues leading to firing pin breakage. Something to check into in addition to the heat treatment of the C Sharps pins. http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21666

Thank you for the link, interesting reading on the subject.

[LynC2]

Hi LynC2. In your OP, you said “new” C. Sharps. Did you contact them and give them a chance to fix it? They make great rifles and I’m sure they’d like to know if one of theirs wasn’t up to their high standard. Ed

No, I didn't contact them. After waiting 3 times longer for it to be made than I was told I wasn't going to go that route, especially when the chamber wouldn't even accept a new 40-65 Starline case or a new FL resized 45-70 case that was trimmed to length. Did I mention the chamber had radial reamer marks in it? Most likely due from chips being trapped during chambering. I rented a Browning 40-65 reamer and rechambered it myself. I regret not just buying an action from MVA and building the rifle myself.

[Boz330]

Mine dates back to 1991 and I've broken several over the years. At first they weren't too expensive or I don't remember ******** about it. I keep a spare and have made several. I didn't have a lathe so drilled them by hand and chopped off a proper size drill bit for a pin and they worked fine.

Bob

[BrentD]

Spring steel wire ("piano wire") can be had in different thicknesses and is remarkably tough for firing pins.

[LynC2]

Spring steel wire ("piano wire") can be had in different thicknesses and is remarkably tough for firing pins.

Brent piano wire was the first thing I checked for, unfortunately I didn't have the correct size but will be ordering some. Like Boz330 I used a drill bit which hopefully works for awhile.

[BrentD]

What size do you need? I have some for other purposes. Much more than I need.

[LynC2]

What size do you need? I have some for other purposes. Much more than I need.

Brent, thanks a million! However I just ordered a small roll as insurance. It's people like you, Don Mc and many others willing to help that makes BP shooting such a great sport! :-)

[BrentD]

LynC2, I don't know if the diameter of what I have would be good, but I have a roll of the stuff in my shop and it would be simple to cut off a chunk and drop it in the mail.

Scary stuff. I'm afraid that the roll will sprong out of control, poke me in the eye, lobotomize my brain, and my wife will simply say, "What's the problem?" :)

[LynC2]

LynC2, I don't know if the diameter of what I have would be good, but I have a roll of the stuff in my shop and it would be simple to cut off a chunk and drop it in the mail.

Scary stuff. I'm afraid that the roll will sprong out of control, poke me in the eye, lobotomize my brain, and my wife will simply say, "What's the problem?" :)

LOL, I see your wife and mine are much alike! :shock:

[45workhorse]

LynC2, I don't know if the diameter of what I have would be good, but I have a roll of the stuff in my shop and it would be simple to cut off a chunk and drop it in the mail.

Scary stuff. I'm afraid that the roll will sprong out of control, poke me in the eye, lobotomize my brain, and my wife will simply say, "What's the problem?" :)

Be careful if she ask if you can fix something with that stuff!!:kidding:

[Chill Wills]

LynC2, I don't know if the diameter of what I have would be good, but I have a roll of the stuff in my shop and it would be simple to cut off a chunk and drop it in the mail.

Scary stuff. I'm afraid that the roll will sprong out of control, poke me in the eye, lobotomize my brain, and my wife will simply say, "What's the problem?" :)

Brent, It was Kelly Roos that told me and Woody about using that music wire. I don't know who told him.... Woody has fixed a bunch of Winchesters and they stay fixed using it. I got a roll from McMaster Carr which is 0.091" I think and can be turned to fit. The stuff is tough but turns OK. It is 10 lifetimes supply. If anyone wants some let me know.
The really old pins are 0.125" and rarely break.

[BrentD]

Yup. I think Kelley started the spring wire trend, at least in BPCR.

[Old-Win]

My first bpcr rifle that I bought was a highwall from Ballard in Cody. Beautiful rifle in 40-70 SS and it was going to be my one and only.:veryconfu Ballard was using an investment cast steel firing pin and I broke two within the first 400 rds. Steve Garbe told me they were going to a stainless steel and sent me 3 replacements. They worked a lot better but I don't shoot it much any more since I figured I needed something "bigger and better" for long range. My 45-70 original highwall has one of those rare blocks with the bushing and pin holding it through the side. It's diameter is somewhere between the large and the small. I just broke it and need another replacement. The replacement I have in it now was made from a turned down large diameter from Wisners but there not making them anymore. Anybody know of a source for the large diameter pin?

[LynC2]

Yup. I think Kelley started the spring wire trend, at least in BPCR.

Music wire is an old standby for years. My gunsmith shooting buddy told me about it 25-30 years ago. He trained under PO Ackley in Trinidad. BTW, I ordered some .080 from McMaster Carr the other day. Wire was about $6.00 and shipping was $10.00; however they ship quickly! Notification of delivery tomorrow!☺ So to emulate Brent's generousity, if you need a piece let me know as I'll never use it all.

[oldred]

I have bought a bunch of various sizes of music wire from both E-Bay and Amazon, most is available in packs of three per pack 36" long. I use it mostly for springs and I have made a bunch of 1885 coil type main springs from .062 and have used it for small pins in diameters up .125. It's really good stuff to have around for many uses and although I hadn't thought about using it for a firing pin that makes perfect sense and I can't think of anything that would be a better choice.

[M-Tecs]

Never repaired a 1885 firing pin. A drill blank would be my first choice.

[Chill Wills]

My 45-70 original highwall has one of those rare blocks with the bushing and pin holding it through the side. It's diameter is somewhere between the large and the small. I just broke it and need another replacement. The replacement I have in it now was made from a turned down large diameter from Wisners but there not making them anymore. Anybody know of a source for the large diameter pin?
I am not sure I know what a Wisners is??? I have lead a sheltered life:shock::confused:

What size is your broken pin? Maybe one of us with a lathe can repair yours. I know I would be glad to do it. You would have to be able to shorten it to length (your block) and put a half hemisphere on it when you got it back.

[john.k]

A good material for pins is an old chrome vanadium screwdriver......I save all busted Cr/V screwdrivers,and good carbon ones too.....used to save all really big files,but everyone sells big files on ebay now as "man cave accessories"..........I would say the broken pins were investment cast,too.

[Bent Ramrod]

My experience with the Winchester Single Shot is limited to refurbishing wrecks back into shooting condition. This has included fixing broken firing pins and converting rimfire pins to centerfire after bushing the breechblocks.

I’ve never had a firing pin body break, just the tip that fires the primer. I file the broken stub flat, put pin body back into block, set it up so the body is pushed all the way forward, and the block face is parallel to the table on my drill press. A drill of the proper size to fit the firing pin hole is selected, and the hole in the block used as the guide to drill into the firing pin body maybe 1/4”-5/16”.

The assembly is removed from the drill press vise, the pin body degreased, the shank of the drill I used is cut off on a grinding wheel and soldered into the hole in the pin body. I test the “new” pin in the block to ensure a sliding fit (sometimes a little relieving with a file and spotting compound is needed) and, when it slides easily back and forth, the excess drill shank is cut off and rounded. I use Frank deHaas’ criterion of 0.055” protrusion from the block face.

Never had one of these tips break off. IIRC, one inferior soldering job came loose and had to be redone, but the tip is still going strong.