Cast boolits won't size

[Pbaker]

I've been casting 44 mag boolits out of my NOE mold, and I'm having trouble sizing them. They are dropping at .433 and they will not size very easily down to .431. My lead is WW mixed with some antimony (15 bhn'ish). I have lubed the die and the boolit, but it takes considerable effort to size. I practically have to hammer it home with the press handle. Any ideas or suggestions?

[Conditor22]

First I'd check the size of a boolit you get through the sizer and see if it's coming out the proper size- you may have gotten a bad sizer

You could try polishing the sizer with 600 grit or finer sandpaper or polishing compound

.002 isn't a big reduction in size

Why so hard an alloy for the 44 mag? how fast are you planning on pushing them and are you gas checking them?

Are you lubing, tumble-lubing, powdercoating or HiTek coating?

what press and sizing die are you using or it it a lube sizer?

[tazman]

How long has it been since the boolits were cast?
The longer you wait, the harder it will be.

[GhostHawk]

I have to agree with both of the above posts.

A don't wait to size, do it right away.

B What are you using for lube?

C I would not think unless you are pushing those boolits very fast that they would need to be that hard.


Most of what I cast is roughly 50% COWW and 50% soft lead or range scrap which is pretty soft. If I want it a bit harder I just drop in a "coin" of pewter that I melted and poured into muffin tins. As thin as I could and still get a full circle.

Sometimes I grab a coin with pliers and only let half of it melt. Depends on what I am casting for.

Higher speed boolits, over 1400 fps with gas check I make a little harder just on general principles.

But I routinely size 3 thousandths with no fuss, certainly no hammering or jerking on press handle.

But I do not always size, if the boolit won't fit as cast, or bulges the brass, then I'll size it down to whatever is needed.

Also IMO rather than beating on the handle IMO it is better to extend it with a piece of pvc pipe.

I've seen pipe wrenches that were hammered on, they looked like heck and did not work well.
But a 2' extention of PVC pipe has never damaged one of my wrenches. Just lets me apply more smooth pressure.

[Rcmaveric]

I too am curious of the age of these bullets. My recommendation is to size them as soon as they are cool enough to handle. Maybe a little polishing of the sizer die.

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[Walks]

If its a Lee type sizer on your press, I do a little shake in a plastic tub with DAWN dish soap. Start sizing 4-5 soapy bullets and the switch to 1 soapy one every 5th or 6th one.
If you shake out the soapy one onto a plate you can let them dry. No rinsing afterward necessary.

If you're using a Lube-Sizer, then coat a few bullets with bullet lube, using your fingers. That should get your sizing die lubed to start.

[Pbaker]

Hi all,

I made bhn 15 based off reloading data in my Lyman book. They suggest lyman #2 all the way up to linotype for 44 mag. I have tried sizing as soon as possible, no luck. I also made some boolits from my 11-12 bhn WW, they went through slightly easier, but not easy at all. I'm using NOE sizing dies, boolits are casting at .433 (sometimes .4335), and upwards of .436 after PC. I've used lube ranging from royal purple oil, various gun lubes. Really at a loss here. It's my first time sizing, and from everything I've read, it's really not that complicated. These boolits have no lube groove and are designed for PC or HTC.

[hlvabeach]

I use a homemade Lanolin based lube that I spray on my PC cast bullets and mix together and size with lee sizer. I size after they cooled down. Sure makes them go through the sizer with little effort.

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[Walks]

I've heard some folks size before PC and then after.

The only time I had a similar problem like this was when I made the mistake of casting some Lyman #454190's out of PURE LINO. Dropped at
.456dia and I didn't bother to check as cast bullet diameter.

Waited 2 months, tried to size down to .452dia, then I checked size of bullet and hardness of alloy.

Sized the 300 bullets to .454 and shot them in my Friends 1st Gen SAA.

Why I empty the pot after every casting session. Can't rely on memory any more.

[Dusty Bannister]

Perhaps the OP did not understand that the load data was developed with Lyman #2 for the alloy as a consistent condition.
"I made bhn 15 based off reloading data in my Lyman book. They suggest lyman #2 all the way up to linotype for 44 mag."
The next question, is this alloy hardness of the bullet after a few weeks of age hardening, or after water quenching? The grooveless bullets probably are harder to size because you are not able to displace any lead into the lube grooves. When sizing a grooveless bullet, you are forcing all the alloy to move and if you mic your bullets before and after sizing you will find the sized bullets longer. And possibly the bases are no longer square.

[Bird]

What firearm are these bullets for?
Are these plain or gas check bullets?
How are you testing these bullets for hardness?
0.436'' after powder coating, and trying to size to 0.431'' is going to be a task.
What press are you using?

[Pbaker]

I'm trying to size them to .432 for my Henry. These boolits are not water quenched and I'm trying to size them within 30 minutes of casting them. I have tried sizing as casted (.433) and after powder coating (.436). I'm using the pencil hardness method. Again, I've tried bhn 12 and bhn 15 with no luck. It's on a wimpy lee breech lock. Maybe I need more leverage? I bought this press after reviewing many videos of people using this for sizing. Seemed to be up to the task, but maybe not for my application.

[RP]

Is it the adjustable handle style press ? If so change the position of the handle so its so to speak in the power band area or adjust die so when bullet enters the die its not right at the top of the handle stroke more so at the end of the stroke. I think this may fix your problem.

[Bird]

Your press should be suitable.
As Dusty says, with a groove less bullet, all the excess lead has to be pushed to one end of the bullet, which makes sizing more difficult.
If the bullet is plain based, then you are not going to drive the bullet to maximum velocity, and you will not need a harder bullet, so forget adding antimony. You can try lubing the bullets with furniture polish before sizing, but it will affect the adhesion of the powder coat if not cleaned off completely.
Maybe try one application of powder coat, then size, followed by additional coats as required.
The only other option is to blend pure lead with your wheel weights for a softer and lower bhn bullet, which should also produce a smaller diameter bullet that would also be easier to size. Keep the velocity down to 1100fps and you might get away with it.

[Conditor22]

real curious about this --- Measure a sized boolit and let us know what size the sizer is allowing through ---- could have got a wrong size/miss-marked sizer.

I have removed the wood ball from the handle of my "wimpy lee breech lock" and added an 18 inch pipe, helps with tougher sizing jobs. I've put some heft on the cheater bar on my "wimpy" breech lock press and it's still ticking (I'd guess) over 50,000 boolits later

I occasionally use either case lube (lanolin/alcohol) or boolit sizing lube to assist in sizing.

What powder coating are you using? It's possible that you're not knocking off all the excess PC and getting fatter boolits. Another possibility is your not making sure the mold is firmly closed when pouring and your getting fatter than normal boolits.

is the sizing die scaping any PC off?

we will figure it out.

BTW, I shoot full house mag loads in my 44 mag using COWW + 2% tin. Lyman calls for much harder alloy than is needed.

The last batch of 44 mag boolits I cast was at 10 BHN sized .430

[Conditor22]

NOE sizing dies are not designed to allow you full cam-over power from your press.

What exact mold and sizing die numbers are you using. IF you don't use the alloy specified by NOE you will get boolits of a different size than specified

[Pbaker]

I'm using clear PC from powder by the pound. I ran some standard COWW w/no PC through a .431 (had to remove the die and finish driving it with a punch and hammer), and after wards it was reading .4315. Doesn't seem to make much difference if it's PC or bare. Sizing a bare cast boolit at .433 shouldn't take much effort to size down to .431. I'll have to keep playing around and see if anything helps. I can't imagine my lead is too hard even at 15bhn.

[WardT]

1/2 doz drops Dawn and 1/2 doz drops of water over a pie plate of naked boolits works for me.
I rinse mine well before PC.

[Pbaker]

Surprisingly enough, i tried my case lube (lanolin and alcohol), and they sized easier. Not great still, but manageable. I will also polish the die and see how that goes. I'll probably need to size and the PC from now on...

[Burnt Fingers]

http://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/sizing-lube/

You can also pick up some Hi-Tek.

I've pretty much quit using PC.

[David2011]

Surprisingly enough, i tried my case lube (lanolin and alcohol), and they sized easier. Not great still, but manageable. I will also polish the die and see how that goes. I'll probably need to size and the PC from now on...

No surprise. Lanolin is an excellent high pressure lube. Still, something is not as it appears to be. Either the measurements are off or the hardness is greater than estimated. Do you know anyone that has a hardness tester? If not you could probably send some sized and unsized boolits to a fellow member. I would offer but I just moved and all of my reloading gear is boxed up.

[megasupermagnum]

I know it was mentioned, but I would definately try polishing the die with something like 600 grit sandpaper. I'm a NOE fan myself, but if their sizing dies are anything like their expander plugs, they are as rough as rough gets. Their plugs are unusable unless you lube them heavily, or do as I do, and polish them. I've never had a NOE product that didn't come spot on for the measurement, but it is worth checking. You never know if a smaller sizer accidentally got put in the wrong bag. I find lube usually makes life easier for sizing bullets, but it should definitely not be a struggle without it. I've sized 30 BHN bullets down .003" and while hard, it wasn't like I was about the break the press either. 15 BHN is a good hardness for 44 magnum, you can do with less, but there is no problems with running them that hard.

1. check the sized bullet diameter
2. polish the die
3. contact NOE

P.S. Here is another thought. If your first few bullets galled in the die, that increases the force to size exponentially. Often the force causes the push rod into the base so hard as to expand and fin the bullet. Those fins then jam between the push rod and the die causing a real problem. The fix is to polish the die and use some lube. I don't mean you have to lube all bullets, just the first few, and then maybe one every 50 bullets will suffice. Just about anything works for bullet sizing lube.

[Conditor22]

finished size through the sizing die .4315 is not bad.

Next step is to polish the **** out of the die. start with 600 (wrap it around a dowel and roll in the die 20-30 seconds fashion a cone shape out of the sandpaper and sand the entry for 1 min then move up to 1,000 and repeat. IF you have a Dremel with a cone-shaped polishing attachment and some metal polish, slick up the entry to the die.

[IF you sand the inside of the die too much with course sandpaper you will open up the die :()

[KVO]

I have had the same experience as megasupermagnum with the NOE push thru sizers and expander plugs. Both needed polishing to be usable. Their push thru sizer bushings have less taper than the Lee and as previously stated do not take advantage of press leverage. If you flip the sizer die body and use it upside down with the bushings held in place with a dab of bullet lube they can be adjusted in your press so you can size at the top stroke and cam over. I ended up drilling and tapping the die body on mine on the opposite side for an additional small set screw to hold the bushings in place.

[KVO]

I also was fairly aggressive with polishing a taper into the bushings leaving just a small sizing ring on top. I really like the concept and still buy the sizing bushings as needed but the execution leaves some to be desired.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hi all,

I made bhn 15 based off reloading data in my Lyman book. They suggest lyman #2 all the way up to linotype for 44 mag. I have tried sizing as soon as possible, no luck. I also made some boolits from my 11-12 bhn WW, they went through slightly easier, but not easy at all. I'm using NOE sizing dies, boolits are casting at .433 (sometimes .4335), and upwards of .436 after PC. I've used lube ranging from royal purple oil, various gun lubes. Really at a loss here. It's my first time sizing, and from everything I've read, it's really not that complicated. These boolits have no lube groove and are designed for PC or HTC.

Closely examine the inside of the sizer insert with a magnifying glass...It should be mirror smooth.

[Pbaker]

Hi all,

Seems like all is well with the world. I polished the die and started using case lube (lanolin/alcohol) and everything sizes great. I can size .433 bare lead down to .430 and I can size .435 PC down to .430 (with ease). I guess I can chalk it up to a rookie mistake and/or learning experience. I really appreciate everyone's feedback and trying to help me sort this out.

[Conditor22]

Glad it worked out for you.

A lesson for all of us -- unless all your sizing dies are mirror-smooth a little polishing will make sizing easier. (I'd start with 1,000 grit wet/dry paper and then some polishing compound on the back of the paper.

[Pbaker]

I did not use sandpaper. I just used a little buffing wheel with some polish. She shined right up. I do have some 1500 grit, but I figured using polish was probably about the same.

[beagle]

Didn't see what brand sizing die you were using. I've had trouble with the old Lymans without the tapered leade into the sizing die. Might look at that too.
Once made some .44 bullets from an unknown allow off the railroad when I was much, much younger. Couldn't size them in an old Lyman 45 sizer. Older and wiser now, I expect they were babbit./beagle

[David2011]

I did not use sandpaper. I just used a little buffing wheel with some polish. She shined right up. I do have some 1500 grit, but I figured using polish was probably about the same.

Even at 1500 grit the abrasive will cut the tops off of the peaks of the metal. The buffing wheel alone, unless it’s hard felt with a coarse abrasive, will just polish the peaks. My two cents.

[fredj338]

I have never had an issue sizing bullets down just 0.002" from cast size. Do we assume you are lubing before while sizing? If not, likely your issue. I size PC bullets in a cheap Lee C press inverted with my Lee dies installed. Not much effort is required to go 0.002".

[KCSO]

Sounds like they may need to be run through a push through sizer first and run them down to just a thou over final dimension and then use the lube sizer. That is a fairly hard alloy and a say 45 or 450 lyman doesn't have a lot of leverage. Make sure they have some lube on them to start with.